Greatest European Ladies Singles Skater Of All Time?

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Maofan7, Feb 21, 2012.

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Greatest European Ladies Singles Skater Of All Time?

Poll closed Mar 23, 2012.
  1. Herma Szabo

    1 vote(s)
    0.5%
  2. Sonja Henie

    41 vote(s)
    19.2%
  3. Cecilia Colledge

    6 vote(s)
    2.8%
  4. Sjoukje Dijkstra

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. Gabriele Seyfert

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. Anett Pötzsch

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  7. Denise Biellmann

    7 vote(s)
    3.3%
  8. Katarina Witt

    71 vote(s)
    33.2%
  9. Oksana Baiul

    9 vote(s)
    4.2%
  10. Irina Slutskaya

    62 vote(s)
    29.0%
  11. Maria Butyrskaya

    8 vote(s)
    3.7%
  12. Other

    9 vote(s)
    4.2%
  1. Maofan7

    Maofan7 Away

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    Following on from the North American version, who was the greatest European ladies singles skater of all time?
  2. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    If we consider medals alone, it's Sonia Henie (sp?) hands down, but the sport was very different back then. I have a hard enough time comparing Katarina with Irina. So it's very hard to pick just one from this entire list. I went with Irina only because I am thinking of the ones I actually saw skating. That is not to take anything away from Henie or other great European ladies.
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2012
  3. PashaFan

    PashaFan Active Member

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    I missed the Witt years because I was too young but I have watched them since on Youtube.
    I was never a fan of Slutskaya when she was skated but have grown to like watching her programes since she retired.
    Bonaly was dominating Europe when I first started watching skating.
    I REALLY can't choose between these three as they are so different.
    I think this is the first time I can't choose !
    From a personal point of view Butyrskaya was my favourite.
    Yes she was very inconsistent & did not have the natural ability of some but she always held my interest right through the years.
    But I do understand that she was not dominant like others.
    Help !. I can't choose !.
  4. icellist

    icellist Member

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    darn, i didn't see Denise Biellmann when I was voting and clicked other. But she's got my vote
  5. fenway2

    fenway2 Well-Known Member

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    I voted Slutskaya for her jumps and spins, but I honestly don't know much about 6 of the ladies on this poll. If it was a poll for best competitor then I'd have picked Witt.
  6. os168

    os168 Active Member

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    Dame/Countessa Katerina Witt!!! No one does a European program like her.
    She defines 'own it' on ice.

    She owned the ice, owned carmen, owned the audience, owned the judges, and owned anyone who's ever compete against her in one way or the other.
  7. Sasha'sSpins

    Sasha'sSpins Well-Known Member

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    Sonja Henie.
  8. Nomad

    Nomad Well-Known Member

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    Witt may have owned it all, but Bonaly had the best toe pushes in the business and she's not even on the list. :wuzrobbed (((Surya)))
  9. Rob

    Rob Beach Bum

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    Same here so 2 move from other to Biellmann
  10. Sasha'sSpins

    Sasha'sSpins Well-Known Member

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    Surya could jump and I loved watching her live in exhibition. But she could not skate. She could barely spin. She looked stiff and telegraphed her jumps. To borrow from a reporter commenting on Bonaly back in her day 'between the jumps she looks as if she's skating on double runners.'

    Surya could not find an edge to save her life.
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2012
  11. victoriaheidi

    victoriaheidi New Member

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    I picked Colledge because she was such an innovator.
  12. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    Sonja Henie, even if I've never seen her.
    Carolina Kostner is not an option, too bad.
  13. RumbleFish

    RumbleFish New Member

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    Denise Biellmann would have won multiple world titles had she not retired from amateur competitions so early.
  14. Excidra

    Excidra New Member

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    Slutskaya
  15. love_skate2011

    love_skate2011 Well-Known Member

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    Irina Slutskaya
  16. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    I agree, and I wonder what it would have been against Katarina Witt.
  17. l'etoile

    l'etoile New Member

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    I've hesitated between Witt and Irina but Irina gets my vote. Even without OGM, she's the most technically suberb, artistically spiritful skater out of all European ladies.
  18. DaiKozOda

    DaiKozOda Active Member

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    It's really difficult to chose between Witt and Slutskaya but I ended up voting for Irina.
  19. Nours

    Nours Active Member

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    As usual Surya is blacklisted. Only a five time winner in a row anyway. Let's say, there's quite a difference between what wou can see on you tube and what it was like when you were in the arena ; specially when time flew from there. I understand most of the people here don't like her skating but still, I can't see how she could be erased like this.
    She even disapeared from the most decorated Euro Ladies tables in some of the most popular online skating places. Now the right history is : Slutskaya 7, Witt 6 and... Kostner 4. It's not like it was a surprise though.
    Cherub721 and (deleted member) like this.
  20. berthesghost

    berthesghost Well-Known Member

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    Henie completely dominated her sport for the entire 20th century. Has more gold medals than god, completely revolutionized the sport so that not only did she have clones of herself challenging her but then went on to become the most popular fs to the general public of all time and inspired the us ladies to dominate the sport for an entire half century.

    Kat dominated for her cycle and still to this day draws crowds and is a household name.

    Irina.......um....... Um....... She...... Um..... Well....... She......um.......you see.....she ...um...well, she was fast.
  21. Karpenko

    Karpenko Well-Known Member

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    ....And she knew how to feed those chickens like nobodys business!

    For me it was between Slutskaya, Henie, and Witt. Athleticism, longevity, star quality & results.

    In the end I voted for Henie, as I feel she best embodies all of those things.
  22. PashaFan

    PashaFan Active Member

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    I agree. Bonaly was amazing live. I got to see her a couple of times at the Europeans & she was so fast.
    She was so slated in the 90's. Whenever I heard Sandra Bezic talk about her she would really put the knife in.
    I liked Surya because she was so different. I did not want to see 20 Kerrigan like skaters or 20 Baiul's. They were individual & wonderful in their own right.
    IMO Surya should have won World's in 93' when Kerrigan fell apart & Baiul lacked combinations. But I think Baiul should have won the Europeans in 94'.
    As for the greatest European lady, Im leaning towards Kostner as I enjoy watching her slightly more than Slutskaya who for me was a bit robotic (IMO).
    I love watching Witt on Youtube & she did a lot for the profile of skating.
    Kostner has been on the podium every year since 06'.
    If you take out the years of Slutskaya's & Kostners wins you have 04' Sebestyan winning in her home country, 09' Lapisto winning in her home country & 11' Meier winning in her home country.
    IMO I would have had Kostner winning in 09 & 11.
  23. berthesghost

    berthesghost Well-Known Member

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    :rofl: EYS!

    Except for those 3 pesky times Maria beat irina, none of which were in Russia... :shuffle:
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2012
  24. PashaFan

    PashaFan Active Member

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    I'm very pro-Maria. So like a good politician I left her out !.
    Did Irina compete at the Euro's in 99?. I can't remember her there.
  25. shine

    shine Well-Known Member

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    Carolina Kostner :)
  26. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Best competitor would be Witt easily. Most decorated would be Henjie. Slutskaya was probably the best skater though. She also had amazing longevity for the modern era.
  27. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Surprised Kostner didn't make the list. But Irina I think.
  28. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with this. I would say Henie was a great competitor too. The sport was different back then, but she won all those gold medals. It's hard to control nerves and they matter even in figures. I picked Irina overall though.
  29. berthesghost

    berthesghost Well-Known Member

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    Henie had great fast spins, basic positions, but her blur spin was amazing. irina had all of those gumbie spins that picked showing off flexibility over beauty of position, plus she traveled so much I always wanted to slap luggage travel stickers on her. :lol:

    Henie had great musicality. Irina, not so much IMHO.

    Henie came on the scene when women didn't even jump and was one of the first to regularly do them. Irina was born like 30 years after the first triple was landed. I always hated the way she almost came to a complete stop on jump landings.
  30. dinakt

    dinakt Well-Known Member

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    Voted for Irina as I cannot evalu
  31. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Say what you will about Irina but she was a legit threat to win gold at every major event she entered from 2000-2006 (other than perhaps 2004 Worlds just back from a major illness) and a legit threat to atleast medal at every major event she entered in 1996-2006. I doubt very much someone like Witt would have been that strong a factor for so many years in the Michelle Kwan era.

    Henjie is hard to compare, she is from a whole different zone altogether. I am sure she was an amazing skater, but there are some horror stories of the kind of politics that went behind some of her wins, ones that would put even the work the Russian and German federations did for Witt and Slutskaya to seem like nothing. Her first World title came with 3 of the 5 judges being from Norway, and she won despite the 2 non Norwegian judges voting for the 5 time defending Champion Herma Plack, and her win created such an uproar that only 1 judge per country was ever allowed in the future. Some have said Maribel Vinson outskated her at times and lost, and most seem to think Cecilia Colledge had surpassed her by the mid 30s but was not allowed by the powers that be to ever win.
  32. Cyn

    Cyn Well-Known Member

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    I voted for Henie, not just because of her skating skills, but because of the impact she had on figure skating.

    She's inarguably the most successful competitive Lady in Figure Skating history, with 3 Olympic Gold Medals, 10 World Gold Medals, and 6 European Gold Medals.

    In addition to that, Henie introduced wearing decorative costumes, particularly ones that dared to *GASP!* show off her legs, as well as being the first skater to wear white boots :swoon:, changing the style of dress from Mary Poppins clones into Tiffed :glamor:. She's also the skater who introduced the idea of using dance/choreography in her programs (hmmm….I wonder if she skated to Malaguena, Swan Lake, and Rach2? :p)

    Despite the controversy about her affiliation with Hitler and the Nazi Party, the skating movies she made helped to bring the sport (and the artistic glamor of it) to the mainstream public and create an interest in the figure skating. Without her contributions, there's a good chance we wouldn't now have the :eek: :drama: :rofl: costume voids we know and love so much
  33. PashaFan

    PashaFan Active Member

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    I agree about Henie. I've read some things about her that does IMO put a huge question mark next to her name.
    But about Witt. She was in a different era to Kwan & could only beat the skaters she was up against in the 80's. Also, there were probably things she had to overcome too. Two Olympic gold medals IMO put's her at the top. Slutskaya, Kwan & Kostner do not have that. Baiul does but did not have the long career.
    These day's the European girls struggle at the World's & Olympics.
    Europe have not had a female World Champion since 2005.
  34. caro-ira

    caro-ira New Member

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    For me, it's Irina Slutskaya, despite the lack of the Olympic Gold.

    I also think Carolina Kostner should have been included in the list. ;)
  35. berthesghost

    berthesghost Well-Known Member

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    :lol:
    Now we're going by gossip?
    Jon Jackson wrote something like irina wouldn't make top 10 at us nats! :lol: toller Cranston wrote that Peggy fell in her oly fs (hire a fact checker next time toller!) :lol: cupcake gave an interview about how she obviously outskated kwan at 03 worlds and wuz robbed by cheatin judges! :lol: and let's not even get started on Sandra and scot at Slc Olys! :lol:
    I can't believe a regular poster at fsu is putting stock in "well, people say...." :rolleyes: 50 years from now someone will be posting "well the French judge said that Stapleton intimidated her.." :lol:
  36. Karpenko

    Karpenko Well-Known Member

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    Irina got way too much flack for not being polished. She was a dynamic skater, I always wanted to wring her neck when she tried something soft pretty and flowy because it was like she was giving in to her critics. And then I wanted to wring the judges necks for giving her 6.0's. ;) There is still yet to be a skater in the past ten years who had that dynamic spark that Irina had. She never really got a program that did it justice, the one I think that came closest to showing how good Irina could be was this program:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zh5bPAKH6oQ


    I always rooted for Kwan over her, but she had a dynamic star power that really shined through when she was on and performing to the right programs.
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2012
    Vash01 and (deleted member) like this.
  37. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    These arent just solo random people saying crazy things (especialy ones with no credability like jaded former judge Jon Jackson). Many credible people have written and implied the same things on Henjie, some of her wins, and some of the events that transpired.
  38. PashaFan

    PashaFan Active Member

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    You are right. It's a fact.
    It's a shame that somebody who achieved what she did on the ice will always have that said about her.
  39. Nomad

    Nomad Well-Known Member

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    IIRC one of those people was Henie's own brother.
  40. Moka-Ananas

    Moka-Ananas Man's Ruin

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    Slutskaya. Love her. Can't stand Witt.