Grand Prix Assignments - 2013/14 Olympic Season

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, Jun 3, 2013.

  1. Polymer Bob

    Polymer Bob New Member

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    But how do you really feel?

    I wonder; if Evan does well enough, is there a chance he could be invited to a 2nd event?
     
  2. skatesindreams

    skatesindreams Well-Known Member

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    I want Evan to compete, and do well, to shut the nay-sayers up!
     
  3. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    Since this is the ISU, it's more complicated than that.

    Three spots are assigned to the host country. Each host federation can choose any three eligible skaters in each discipline, and, by eligible, that means literally eligible to compete in senior ISU competition. (No GP minimums, results, or experience apply.) While the general practice has been for hosts to not select more than one skater in each Worlds results group (1-3, 4-6, 7-9, 10-12), there is either no rule against it, or, there is a rule, but Federations break it occasionally with no known repercussions. For example, in the past the Japanese Fed assigned two skaters from the non-seeded groups, i.e., 7-9 and 10-12*, and last season, for the first time, chose Takahashi (2) and Hanyu (3) from the first seed group and the French Fed chose both Joubert (4) and Amodio (5) from the second seed group.

    All of the other spots are specific to skaters, with the limitation of no more than three skaters per country per discipline in any event.

    There are skaters who are guaranteed one or two based on last season's results. The rest must be eligible for consideration through their own results -- Top 75 on last season's SB list and meet the GP minimum last season or at five early Senior internationals, a rule which was broken last season for Montalbano/Krasnapolski -- or be part of a couple that split, but in the past two seasons had 1-6 or 7-12 finishes with a previous partner and is returning with a new partner or be a returning skater (skipped one or more seasons and had specific results at Worlds during the defined periods).

    Three spots were assigned to USFS to do as they wish; the rest were earned by specific skaters. Taking Ladies, the following skaters earned spots for themselves:

    Two each:
    Wagner (5th at Worlds), two spots
    Gold (6th at Worlds), two spots

    One each:
    15-Nagasu, one spot
    16-Gao, one spot
    18-Miller, one spot if she turned senior for GP
    20-Zawadzki, one spot
    22-Wang, one spot if she turned senior for GP.

    Coincidentally, the maximum guaranteed or "earned" was 12 (3 host spots + 4 for two guaranteed two + 5 guaranteed one). However, because Miller and Wang are staying junior for GP, the maximum "earned" was actually 10 (3 host spots + 4 for two guaranteed two + 3 seniors guaranteed one). In addition, USFS chose Wagner, who would have been given two no matter what, for one of the host spots, which left a net of 9 guaranteed or "earned" spots. (3 host spots + 3 incremental spots for skaters guaranteed two + 3 seniors guaranteed spots). Any other assignment for a US Lady was optional.

    As it turned out, three other hosts chose Nagasu, Gao, and Zawadzki for a second each, but there was no obligation. They could just as soon have chosen any three of Gosviani, Popova, Cesario, Imai, Caroline Zhang, Lafuente, or Glebova, for example.


    Technically, no. If the country doesn't have enough eligible skaters/teams for three slots -- this has been the case in Japan for Pairs and Dance -- they eventually have to return them to the pool, usually by the end of the summer at the latest, when hosts submit names for TBAs, except the French Fed, which uses a later internal competition to determine the last spot(s). A Federation may choose to put host spots back in the pool for the initial selection -- in Pairs, the Japanese Fed put back two and the French Fed put back one -- or wait until the TBA deadline, or decide to pull a skater or not replace an injured skater closer to the event.

    Also, there can be up to three skaters/teams from a non-host nation at any event from any other country. For each discipline, the Feds draw for selection order. It is possible for a Fed to draw last and have only skaters from one other country from which to choose in three categories, but the odds are low. There is no scenario where the Chinese Federation was obligated to choose all three of Sotnikova, Koreobeynikova, and Pogorilaya, since the latter two are in the same category (guaranteed one by Top 24 WS and/or SB).

    Practically speaking, it is far more common for hosts to have three from their own country and fewer from other countries. The exceptions this year are 3 RUS Ladies at CoC, 3 USA Men at Skate Canada and NHK, 3 JPN Men at Skate America and Skate Canada, where there is either dominance and/or volume of accomplished skaters.

    *Since the announcement for 2013-14 hasn't been published yet, we can only go by last season's announcement and try to interpret what the actual selections imply. For example, this year, both Skate America (Joubert-9 and Aaron-8) and NHK (Mura-7 and Aaron-8) have two from what for the last decade has been one group (7-9) and none from the 10-12 group, while CoC (Amodio-12, Liebers- 11) and TEB (Amodio-12, Brezina-10) have none from the 7-9 group, but two from the 10-12 group, which is exceptional. Perhaps this year 7-12 is one group?

    About a month or so before the initial selection meeting, the Federations submit two lists of skaters to be considered, one list for Junior GP and one for Senior GP. (While the skaters can earn spots for themselves, the Federations can refuse to submit their names for selection, like the Russian Fed did to Sokolova after she placed top 10 at the prior Worlds, and Skate Canada did to Sandhu, and Federations can hold back skaters in Juniors or push them to Seniors, even if the skater wishes otherwise.)

    Any skater, junior or senior, who is in the Top 24 SB, which includes scores from JGP and Jr. Worlds, and/or Top 24 WS, which includes points earned from JPG, Jr. Worlds, and Senior B's, is guaranteed one and could be chosen for a second, if the Federation submits their name to the ISU on the senior GP list instead of the Junior GP list.

    In addition, while the rules have changed a few times over the past few seasons, last season, Jr. World medalists and JGPF gold medalists are eligible to be chosen, if their names are on the Senior GP list, if they haven't already been guaranteed one. (It is highly unlikely that these skaters wouldn't already be guaranteed one from the Top 24 SB list, if they are Jr. Worlds medalists or JGP champions, but it's technically possible.)

    Cesario isn't guaranteed a spot, since she was tied for 27th on the SB list, is 47th in WS, and missed the podium at Jr. Worlds. Miyahara was 23rd on the SB list and was guaranteed one and was assigned to an optional spot. The Japanese Fed could have kept a TBA for NHK, forcing another Fed to assign her one, and, afterwards, assigned her to the TBA, but they and the Russian Fed skipped that farce and just gave her two up front.

    In 2011-12, the French Fed had 2 TBD's in Ladies and USFS had 2 TBD's in Dance. (I recycled my printouts from the two seasons before :wall:) Last season, there were relatively few TBA's at all, and no two in any one discipline for any host.

    It's possible there was a rule change, but it hadn't been published through last season's announcement, and we're still waiting for this season's.

    Even with one TBA, Skate Canada could have forced another Fed to choose M/P, leaving a TBA open for M/P or another team that wasn't guaranteed one.

    If he signed the paperwork as a "comeback skater," and he was only chosen for Skate America in the initial round, then he could be invited to another event where he wouldn't be a fourth US man.

    If he didn't, the only way he could be considered for another event is if he enters and wins any of USFS International, Finlandia, Nebelhorn, Nepala, and Coupe de Nice and there are so many substitutes that he makes it from the bottom of the alternates list, where the winners of these Senior B's sit.
     
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  4. ehdtkqorl123

    ehdtkqorl123 New Member

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    Anyone knows about ticket presale of Skate Canada?
     
  5. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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  6. ehdtkqorl123

    ehdtkqorl123 New Member

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  7. Sylvia

    Sylvia Bring on the JGP & Sr B comps!

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    Here are the Dance teams, Senior international level, with 0 or 1 GP assignment from a host federation with 1 TBA that have met the 113.74 GP minimum score:

    Hubbell/Donohue SB 17 (SC), Kriengkrairut/Giulietti-Schmitt 26 (none), Aldridge/Eaton 27 (CoC), Cannuscio/McManus 49 (none) - 1 TBA at SA;
    Huang/Zheng 50 (CoC), Yu/Wang 60 (CoC) - 1 TBA at CoC (could go to another country's team?);
    Reed/Reed 24 (SA) - 1 TBA at NHK;
    Papadakis/Cizeron 20 (RC) - 1 TBA at TEB;
    Stepanova/Bukin 14 (SC), Monko/Khaliavin 15 (TEB), Sinitsina/Zhiganshin 18 (NHK), Pushkash/Guerreiro 39 (none) - 1 TBA at RC.

    Teams with 0 or 1 GP assignment, ranked by SB down to #39 (excluding the JGP-eligible teams):
    13 Coomes/Buckland GBR (TEB)
    14 Stepanova/Bukin RUS (SC)
    15 Monko/Khaliavin RUS (TEB)
    17 Hubbell/Donohue USA (SC)
    18 Sinitsina/Zhiganshin RUS (NHK)
    19 Zlobina/Sitnikov AZE (SA)
    20 Papadakis/Cizeron FRA (RC)
    21 Kolbe/Caruso GER (NHK)
    22 Guignard/Fabbri ITA (SC)
    23 Heekin-Canedy/Dun UKR (RC)
    24 Reed/Reed JPN (SA)
    25 Tobias/Stagniunas LTU (SA)
    26 Kriengkrairut/Giulietti-Schmitt USA (none)
    27 Aldridge/Eaton USA (CoC)
    28 Orford/Williams CAN (TEB)
    30 Koch/Nuchtern GER (none)
    36 Shtork/Rand EST (none)
    37 Hurtado/Diaz ESP (none)
    39 Pushkash/Guerreiro RUS (none)

    Also:
    -- Paul/Islam CAN (SC host pick)
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2013
  8. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Could be but in the case of Miller I doubt it. In this interview from Nationals http://web.icenetwork.com/media/pla...skin=/flash/video/y2010/mlb_vpp2010.swf&_mp=1 she's says she'd like to compete on the senior GP. Her SB also secured her 1 spot so she knew she could definitely get a GP assignment. Issue is, if her name had been submitted and she got a GP event, that would have likely cost Nagasu or Zawadzki her second GP, and USFS would probably rather Nagasu and Zawadzki each have 2 GPs because they are actually being considered for the Sochi Olympic team and it gives them a chance to qualify for the GPF, whereas had Miller's name been submitted, she would have gotten 1 GP but most likely not 2 (unless USFS had sense and gave her SA as a 2nd instead of Zhang), so where she's not really being considered for Sochi anyways and with 1 GP there's no way she could qualify for the GPF, then to have her compete on the GP doesn't do USFS any favors AND would prevent a competitor in the mix to make the Olympic team from gaining more exposure and even having a shot to make the GPF.
     
  9. isamelia

    isamelia Member

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    This sounds very logical, pinky. I also wish Hannah would have had her 1 GP assignment + possibly the host SA pick after summer monitoring competitions, which show current readiness. After this cycle, hopefully she will be in a better position to earn 2 GPs outright.
     
  10. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    Some data on the GP minimums:

    They were calculated on 60% of the World Champion's score, which in all cases was from World Championships, and in Kim's, V/T's, and D/W's case was the highest score on the SB list. For Chan, his WC score was third highest on the SB list. (The ISU truncates at the hundredths, rather than rounding.) This is a change from past calculations, which were done on the highest SB score, regardless of whether that was earned by the World Champion or at the World Championships.

    Nerd observation: the Men's GP minimum for 2011-12 was 168.60, and this year it's 160.68.

    To repeat the minimums (referred to below), based on the GP Preview published on 3 June:
    Ladies-130.98
    Men-160.68
    Pairs-135.42
    Dance-113.74

    Men: All in the top 75 SB have met the minimum score, as did 76-78. Had Javier Fernandez's SB from Euro's been used, the GP minimum would have been 164.92, and the cut-off would have been just below Justus Strid (DEN), #73 SB. Not that the alternates list will get that far down.

    Ladies: Cut-off is at #71, Laurine Lecavelier (FRA).

    Dance: Cut-off is at #60, Yu/Wang (CHN).

    Pairs: Cut-off is at #34, Vartman/Van Cleave (GER).

    Simpson/Blackmer's assignment to Rostelecom Cup for their Top 24 WS is provisional, since they have not met the GP minimum score: they missed by 2.37 with junior programs. Presumably USFS will assign them to one of the five Senior B's that count towards earning the minimum: US International, Nebelhorn, Nepala, Finlandia, and Coupe de Nice.

    For all but Pairs, the chances of getting picked from the bottom of alternates list are very low, but for Pairs, it could be a different story.

    Returning to juniors or split are Fedorova/Miroshkin, Davankova/Deputat, Vigalova/Zakroev, Yu/Jin, Davis/Ladwig, and Vise/Baldwin, leaving the following for replacement spots without results from the early Senior B's:

    1. Three Split couples/returning split couples: Davis/Brubaker, Purich/Tran, and Takahashi/Kihara are at the top of the list to get a second.
    2. Six in the Top 24 SB list with one: Stolbova/Klimov (he's reportedly injured), Zhang/Bartholomay, Martiusheva/Rogonov, Popova/Massot, Denny/Frazier, and Purdy/Marinaro
    3. Two in the Top 75 SB who've met the minimum with one: Della Monica/Guarise and Vartman/Van Cleave
    4. Five in the Top 75 SB who've met the minimum and have no assignments to date: Jones/Beharry, Tarasova/Morozov (he turned 20 last November)*, Proelss/Blommaert, Wang/Zhang, and Gainetdinova/Bich (he turned 20 in February)*.

    *They could remain junior. (Thanks to Sylvia [below] for pointing this out.)

    Total is 16, [ETA] if Tarasova/Morozov and Gainetdinova/Bich go senior, fewer if they remain junior. Last season there were 17 withdrawals (including two replacement withdrawals), of which six were never replaced, plus four TBA replacements. (This year there are five TBAs.) If this season is anything like last -- hopefully not -- the skaters just underneath the cut-off have a shot at getting an assignment if they make the GP minimums at one of the five early Senior B's. Just like two seasons ago, Kemp/King are just below the cut-off by a few points.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2013
  11. l'etoile

    l'etoile New Member

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    Go Evan:kickass:
     
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  12. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    This makes me mad at the Jr Worlds judging / calling all over again.
     
  13. PinkFeathers

    PinkFeathers Active Member

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    I'm a lot more excited to see Josh and Jason than I figured I would be. It's nice to have some new seniors to fangirl over, I guess :D As for Evan... I really want to see him compete. Really. Maybe he's like skating Beetlejuice: assign his name three times and he appears.
     
  14. b-man

    b-man Active Member

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    Thanks, Kwanfan, very informative and comprehensive answer. You are certainly a whiz on ISU rules.
     
  15. hippychick

    hippychick Member

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    I went back and looked at the Senior B competition scores for last year. Donlan and Speroff scored over 140 points at Nebelhorn, does that make them eligible under the points for a GP on the alternate list or does it have to be at a Grand Prix that they meet the minimum score? Hopefully they have sorted out their issues from last season and will at least get a Senior B assignment.

    I also believe that Kayne and Oshea and Leng and Leduc met the minimum score at the Spring International.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2013
  16. Sylvia

    Sylvia Bring on the JGP & Sr B comps!

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    ^^^ Yes, 2012 Nebelhorn counts for Donlan/Speroff (145.35).

    ETA:
    Tarasova/Morozov (SB 27) and Gainetdinova/Bich (SB 33) are both still ISU Junior age-eligible in 2013-14.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2013
  17. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    Whenever I see the names of this pair, I get the strangest mental image. :shuffle:
     
  18. Iceman

    Iceman Well-Known Member

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    So Plush has only one assignment as of now.
     
  19. icellist

    icellist Member

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    Glad I'm not the only one :lol:

    surprised the Russian fed hasn't politicked harder for this team considering their names :rofl:
     
  20. query5

    query5 New Member

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    i am glad caroline zhang got one,
    i am happy she got one. i wonder why some people on boards don't want her to have one.
    I
     
  21. Sylvia

    Sylvia Bring on the JGP & Sr B comps!

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    I don't think it's anything personal against Caroline Zhang, but based on just the numbers... Zhang is #39 on the ISU SB total scores list and was 11th at Nationals, while (for example) Samantha Cesario is tied for #27 SB, was 8th at Nationals, and didn't get a GP in the initial round (note: she wasn't guaranteed one based on past selection criteria).
     
  22. dardar1126

    dardar1126 Well-Known Member

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  23. Sylvia

    Sylvia Bring on the JGP & Sr B comps!

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    I didn't see dardar1126's post above and started a new thread in GSD for the Lysacek article: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?88293-For-Evan-Lysacek-countdown-to-Sochi-Games-is-on

    Japan Times article ("Ice Time" column by Jack Gallagher) on the Grand Prix assignments: http://www.japantimes.co.jp/sports/...o-kim-can-face-off-is-at-gp-final-in-fukuoka/

    Associated Press article on the Grand Prix assignments: http://www.washingtonpost.com/sport...b84126-cc48-11e2-8573-3baeea6a2647_story.html

    IceNetwork's summary article: http://web.icenetwork.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20130603&content_id=49474796&vkey=ice_news
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2013
  24. rfisher

    rfisher Satisfied skating fan

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    I'm quite certain he has no interest in a 2nd or in doing the GPF. He'll minimize the number of comps in which he competes. He and his team have only one goal in mind and GP events aren't them. He'll just want to get any minimum scores.
     
  25. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    Plushenko could have gained the minimum score at a Senior B. I think one GP event in front of a Russian crowd with some formidable competition with a GP tech panel as an international dress rehearsal before Sochi is what the doctor ordered. I don't think he (or Lysacek) want to risk having to go to Japan for GPF or to travel extensively.

    I apologize: I did a search on "Age limits" which brought me just below the line that said the text was applicable as of 1 July 2014. Morozov and Bich are under 21 as of 1 July 13, and they are eligible for juniors this year. Since neither pair was guaranteed a senior spot but weren't assigned, the JGP rosters will tell the story. I'll go back up and fix the post.

    No. There are two ways to make the GP minimums:

    1. Through a score on the SB list from last season (2012-13), which includes JGP/GP, JGPF/GPF, championships, World Team Trophy, and, the season after the Olympics, the Olympic qualifier, the Olympics, Youth Olympic Games. (For 2014-15, Nebelhorn will count on the SB list.)

    2. Though a score at one of the designated early Senior B's in the current season (2013-14), meaning 2013 US International, 2013 Nebelhorn, 2013 Nepala, 2013 Finlandia, and/or 2013 Coupe de Nice.

    Senior B's from last season or this season can be used to meet the championship TES minimums.

    Donlan/Speroff can earn the GP minimum at one of these events, but it doesn't change where they stand on the alternates list, i.e., it doesn't replace the score they earned at 2012 Skate America on the SB list. (If they were to win one of these events, they'd surely meet the minimum, but they'd be at the bottom of the alternates list, like Scimeca/Knierem were last year). They're higher on the alternates list where they are, which they'd keep even if they won one of the fall events, but it would still be a stretch, although not an impossibility, for them to make it off the alternates list, were they to meet the GP minimum at one of the five listed Senior B's.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2013
  26. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    Mao Asada became senior in the Olympic year (2006) and won the GPF (not saying Wang or others would), so I really don't see any harm in going senior, because there's no sayin the ladies will not get injured a year from now or have something else come along (like college) that may come between them and skating.

    JMHO
     
  27. Sylvia

    Sylvia Bring on the JGP & Sr B comps!

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    Kayne/O'Shea and Leng/LeDuc met the 2013 Worlds minimum TES in both the SP and FS at the spring international (2013 Challenge Cup in The Hague) but does this competition count toward attaining the GP minimum pairs total score of 135.42? The total scores at 2013 Challenge Cup for the 3 U.S. pairs were: Kayne/O'Shea (167.82), Leng/LeDuc (148.56) and Baga/Toth (146.50; they met the FS minimum TES but not the SP minimum TES for 2013 Worlds).

    From: http://www2.isu.org/vsite/vnavsite/...3,4844-205151-222374-nav-list,00.html?id=1327
     
  28. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    This wording in the preview means they either changed the rules this season, or, more likely, the preview doesn't represent what is in the announcement.

    The way the preview is worded, the GP minimums can be earned:

    1. Last season in an ISU event (GP, JGP, ISU championship, WTT)
    2. This season in an ISU event (GP, JGP; too late for ISU championships, WTT)
    3. Last season in one of the listed Senior B's (same as last season, although, two seasons ago, the list wasn't identical)
    4. This season in one of the listed Senior B's.

    Last season and at least one season before, the GP minimums could be met:
    1. At a prior season's ISU event (GP, JGP, ISU championships, WTT) and YOG
    2. In a current season's listed, early Senior B.

    For Kayne/O'Shea and Leng/LeDuc, a rule change would be irrelevant: neither team is on the SB list. As a result, they're only eligible for a host pick, and host picks don't need the GP minimum.
     
  29. Jammers

    Jammers Well-Known Member

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    I agree. I would have rather seen Wang, Cesario or even Miller get a SA spot then someone like Zhang who is on her way out it seems. There are just to many issues with her skating that go beyond just her jumps such as basic skating skills such as speed on the ice etc etc.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2013
  30. Jammers

    Jammers Well-Known Member

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    Grrrrr double post. :mad:
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2013