Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Gracie4Gold, Feb 4, 2012.
Wheee!! Gracie will rule the world then the UNIVERSE!!!
I felt the same way, but I've been watching her for a while now. I was like, "this is her first National TV appearance? NOOOOOO!"
Gracie knows what she has to do. I think her coach made it a point this year to work on her jumps because without them you are not going anywhere as a figure skater in competition. As for the triple axel we saw what that got Mao as she basically ignored her other triple jumps and depended on the 3axel.to much. If she can land it in competition fine but i hope she doesn't worry about it to much.
According to Andrea Joyce, Gracie WILL CRUSH THE RUSSIANS.... WITH HER APPLES.
By the way, Andrea Joyce had NO business suggesting to Gracie that she should drop her apples on Russian girls heads (to slow them down).
That is advocating violence against the Russians, and NBC-Sport/Universal, ISU, and US figure skating federation WILL BE MADE AWARE OF THIS.
I'm a huge Gracie fan, but I also appreciate the talents of skaters like Sotnikova, Tuktamisheva, etc. ALL of these young skaters from EVERY country have their faults. Luckily, they have plenty of time to work on them.
I don't know skating technical issues, but I will say this: I hope Gracie doesn't get pushed into being the next "wonder girl" before she's ready and tries to live up to the hype. I hope her parents and her coaches can keep her head on straight and allow her to develop in her own good time so she will have the chance to reach her best and not have high expectations and publicity make her a head case or a monster. It would take a very mature adult to deal with this kind of pressure, and the child is only what-16?
Who cares if the Russian junior stars win this year or next? It doesn't mean that in ten years that folks won't look back and say "Gracie wound up being the best of the decade" or whatever. Maybe she will and maybe she won't, but we can't predict the next 5 years today. Let the Russian girls, who are wonderful in themselves, enjoy victories if they are developing ahead of Gracie. Let her become the best skater she can be and peak properly in her own time. She who laughs last....
That's an insult to Tuk. She's been skating at her senior nationals since she was 11 years old.
ITA. A real fan wouldn't be so over the top with hyperbole. I'm loving Gracie too, but I hate threads like this one.
what do you mean?
Her EX was badly done. Like, as I said, it showed all of her bad spots and she just wound up looking like a really lousy skater. If I weren't a fan, that would have made me even less convinced.
Jeez..she's a nice kid who's had a great season after a disappointing one. She said she thought she could skate with the Russians, nothing more. Half of her team is from Russia or the Ukraine. She clearly focused her attention on her competitive programs, and rightly so. Can't you ease up a little....
No! She is the Annointed One! She MUST win everything - practices, exhibitions, warm-ups, pilates sessions, everything!
Thanks, even though it's in practice it's impressive, but like you said doing it in competiton is another thing and even if she does, its not everything. I would like to see more speed with it.
That's not really what I meant. I just meant that, if that were my first exposure to Gracie, I wouldn't have been so into her. A similar example: Courtney Hicks. Last year, my mom and I saw her churn out a weak performance at a show. Since I'd seen her skate before and knew that she was excellent, I was frustrated when my mom kept insisting that she'd had dumb luck one time at Nats and was probably not that great. I'm pretty confident that's what my sister thought about Gracie when she watched her this morning, and it's a shame. I wish she'd been able to give a stronger performance there, and it's frustrating, but whatever. I wasn't insinuating that she's screwed or anything.
But would there be a point to doing it in competition? Sure, it would make skating history, but she'd only get a bonus if she did it after the halfway mark, and that's a lot to ask.
In terms of points, there's almost no advantage at all for a woman to do a 3-3-3, unless she also has a combination like 3A-2T or can do solo 3A + quad. Otherwise, you get the same amount of points in less risk to do two different 3-3s and repeat the hardest two triples.
For example, 3-3-3 without 3A/quad:
---> Suddenly done with all allowed repetitions of jumps, but there are still 4 more jumping passes to fill! So she has to fill the rest up with doubles, and can only repeat the 2A once. That's a 7 triple skate in 3 jumping passes, very impressive, but points-wise, especially because of the bonus and the way GOE is calculated, it's probaby significantly worse in base mark, vs:
<stuff until halfway mark>
7 triple skate, less risk, probably higher TES once you add in +GOE and bonus mark.
For a woman, a 3-3-3 is completely useless. All it does is use up jumping passes too quickly, even if she also has a 3-3LO and 3-3T. A solid 3A is much more useful. Being able to do 3A, 3A-2T, and a 3-3T-3LO all in one program would be very good, though. Because then you can do:
<--- halfway mark
Seven triple skate with two 3A and 3LZ, plus three triples in the bonus period. For guys it's much the same, only they would use it to make up triples they'd lose out doing easier combos to repeat their quads and 3A.
But hey, 3-3-3 on Oly practice ice may have won Shizuka the gold on the basis of intimidating her rivals/impressing the judges, so it could be useful just for that!
I also saw what others saw in the exhibition; it wasn't so much that she had jump trouble, she really had no connection with the audience, her presentation was somewhat lacking, it was just very JUNIOR looking, not at all surprising for a Junior skater.
Yes, her jumps are amazing, she has great potential. But this "crush all the Russian babies, invincible, she should be sent to Senior Worlds" crap, is just that. She has had one really good season. That does not, an Olympic Champion, necessarily make. Let's see how she does at JW and in the future before we start building the display case for her medal from Sochi...
THIS is what I meant.
I just posted in the US Nationals Exhibition thread in the TV Alerts forum that I wish NBC had shown Gold's winning Junior FS instead.
ETA link to a "fan cam" version of her Nationals FS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bpi7bxSvfTA
She also has to win the fluff pieces! Is she cute and charming enough to make it?
She can juggle apples. End of competition.
But can she juggle flaming torches? Or porcupines?
aww, a female baby van der Perren
but other than that, I think all of these girls are great jumpers, but most of them lack personality on ice. No wonder, they're just juniors. Whoever gets out of her shell and shows some character first, will win me as a fan.
She can do it all. What's more impressive, she can do it while doing a 3axel on a harness!
Who do the Russians have that can compete with that?! A Marilyn Monroe wannabe?! Pfffft!
Why so bitchy?
Her US Nationals SP is on youtube.
The music is not wonderful, to say the least.
Right now, Gracie and the 3 Russians are probably the medal threats at JW's. She is the only Junior lady that can keep up with them.
Gracie might have a slight edge on Sotnikova, Tuktamysheva, and Lipnitskaya on TES, but their gap over her in PCS will probably be the winning factor
Gracie probably has an edge over Sotnikova, but i can't see her having any edge over Liza or Julia. Liza has lot more transition coming out of jumps and i don't think Liza's jump are any way inferior to Gracie's, spins both will receive same levels. As for Julia, she more than makes up of her technical content with very GOEs on spins, which non of the three other girls can match.
Why should Gao be completely left off she does have a gorgeous 3flip/3toe.
To clarify more, I think that Gracie has an edge on the big elements, like the jumps, and on PCS elements like SS (speed) and possible PE (depending on what she puts out on the ice) but the Russian gals probably will bring better scores on non-jump TES like spins, and on PCS elements like CH AND IN.
I haven't paid attention to FW.
Perhaps the jumps are a wash between Liza and Gracie - Gracie's speed and explosiveness are evened out by Liza's transitions, and neither one of them is what I'd call a great artist on the ice. It might be close between the 2 of them ...
Gracie should get good GOE on her jumps vs. Julia's good GOE on spins. Julia might get higher PCS overall, which could be a deciding factor
Gracie has an edge on speed over Adelina? I don't know Adelina has been pretty praised for having incredible skating skills for her age. I think one would have to see them live. But speed and power is NOT a weakness Sotnikova has. Adelina's short program is jam packed with difficulty in the inbetweens as well. And while she flutzs Sotnikova's jumps are huge.
Julia as well has good speed/flow over the ice from those who have seen her live.
One could mention to Julia has yet to make a major mistake this year; something that can't be said for anyone else in the competition; including Gracie. As for P/E; I actually think that one of Gracie's weakeness IS Performance. I think all of the Russian girls are better performers; but all of them have also been in the spotlight longer. They should all get higher P/E especially Julia who has lovely lines/extension and is really a great performer. Tukt too is a good performer.
Frankly if Adelina went clean she really should win. I just think she's the least likely to go clean.
I thought Angela Wang looked good enough to compete with the Russian JR ladies. She was (6th) in the LP at Nats after a bad SP(16th), (8th) over-all. She can do 3z/3t and 3F/3t. I was hoping she was 5th or 6th at SR Nats and made the JR Worlds team. Besides Gracie, I believe she is another US lady to keep an eye on.
Glad you realize this. I was quite underwhelmed by her nationals exhibition skate. Artistically speaking, i think Gracie makes Liza look like Janet Lynn.
Has Gao ever gone clean in a competition?
I haven' t seen her do it in senior competition. I don't know if she's ever gone clean in junior comps.
It's unfair to judge her on an exhibition skate. We don't know if she threw that program together in a day or two after learning she would be skating in the exhibition. Agnes' program wasn't an artistic masterpiece either but no one seems to be harping on her for that.
Thread titles like this are a turn off for me. It's natural to be excited about a talented skater, but for the last several months Gracie has been put on such a pedestal that it's creating negative vibes. The girl has talent, no doubt, but she has not won anything on the senior circuit, and she has already been compared with Midori Ito, Tonya Harding, and supposed to 'crush' the Russians? On what basis? Just because she can jump? She appears coltish, when it comes to presentation, like other girls of her age. We don't know if she can handle pressure. I also feel it's a bit unfair to other talented young ladies who are being totally ignored. I had no idea how good Angela Wang is until I saw her at the most recent US nationals.
This is not limited to US ladies though. Since last year I have been hearing that Adelina or Liza would win the OGM in 2014. They have won more than Gracie at this point, but they too have a long way to go before becoming OGM contenders. A little moderation in assessing the young skaters may be a good thing to do.
Again, because Agnes has more artistic exposure and there's more to point to Agnes' success than Gracie's. Gracie's could still look like a fluke. I know she's not.
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