Gracie To Frank Carroll?

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by FSfan107, Sep 14, 2013.

  1. Iceman

    Iceman Well-Known Member

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    I agree. I can't see leaving a coach that has brought her this far at this time. Maybe her parents hope she will pull off a Tara and be able to retire while a teenager. I will be surprised if Frank is still coaching in 4 years, so another change. Is her sister going with her? If she needs help in presentation, she hardly needs to do something so drastic. Few will probably agree with me, but this smacks of disloyalty.
     
  2. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    This is a strange situation. On one side, FC might be able to refine her look and presentation on the ice which everyone seems to agree is her biggest hurdle and yes, FC's schedule might be freer now than previously imagined.

    OTOH, moving out to CA in September of an Olympic season and adapting to the ways of a new coach will be a little tough, regardless of how good that coach may be. No doubt. I'm also a little saddened by the way she left Ouriashev. It doesn't sound like a pleasant parting of ways and that could have some mental impact on the whole situation. I was surprised this was decided upon around Champs Camp.

    Only time will tell ...
     
  3. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    We totally need more skaters to be taught 'straight-line jumping technique' in a sport which is all about edges. :scream:

    I don't get this at all. Gold's jumps have been extremely impressive and her coach seemed very warm and supportive. I always think that the real test for any coach is being able to deal with their skater bombing. Ouriashev passed it. Carroll has failed it on a number of occasions.

    Gold lacked an overall package. She isn't balletic in the slightest but that can be worked around by giving her staccato routines. Her choroegraphy has been very underwhelming so far, however, and her programs lacked both complexity and character. It's a new choroegrapher and performance coach that she needed, not a new technical coach.

    Although, obviously there sure are things going on behind the scenes that none of us are even remotely aware of.
     
  4. demetriosj

    demetriosj Well-Known Member

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    He doesn't strike me as a mentally comforting kind of coach.........

    Check out his reaction when she bombs a few times.........
     
  5. FunnyBut

    FunnyBut Well-Known Member

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    Well, she is trying to be best she can be and there is so much headroom to grow on the presentation side. Athletically, she is probably one of the 2 or 3 best skaters in the World, when you consider the quality and difficulty of her jumps, spins and her powerful ice coverage. In terms of musicality, there a probably a dozen wonderbabies , much less Seniors, that are quite honestly better than her. Just from the first few JGP, I think Edmunds, Bell, Chen, Medvedeva, Proklova all interpret their music better and project more to the audience. There's so much untapped potential there, and Zueva hasn't made it happen so far. Who better than Carroll, perhaps with some help from Nichol?
     
  6. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Those two people would be pretty much my last choice as far as developing a skater's presentation is concerned. :p

    Nichol has produced some very impressive work for Kostner but then it's Kostner. The vast majority of her other work is dull, interchangeable, safe and generic.
     
  7. Sylvia

    Sylvia Bring on the JGP & Sr B comps!

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    Relevant excerpt from Icenetwork's Ladies SP article:
     
  8. demetriosj

    demetriosj Well-Known Member

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    How do you know this?!
     
  9. demetriosj

    demetriosj Well-Known Member

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    Surprised she's still working with Oleg Epstein since he is on the Ouriashev team?
     
  10. leapfrogonice

    leapfrogonice Active Member

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    For those who believe that leaving a coach after the past few seasons of success that she has is puzzling, probably do not know anything about the circumstances that prompted the change. One has to believe that there were problems or issues with the situation - especially given the fact that she left her coach, before what is becoming an announcement that she is going to a new one.

    I would think someone like Frank Carroll would not stoop to "poaching." Rather, he was approached once she had made her decision, and then he accepted. At this level, there can be all sorts of stipulations built into the relationship. Formal contracts are not uncommon with very specific items outlined, especially in terms of "who will be at the boards for certain key events" and "whether the coach would take on another direct competitor" etc.

    I am not surprised that she is still working with Oleg Epstein, since he is also partnered with Zoueva, who is Gracie's choreographer. In fact, if you watch WHO is actually doing the coaching during the moments just before Gracie skated out to perform her short program, it is Zoueva who is holding her hands and looking into her eyes and giving her final words of encouragement. Her other coach looks very awkward, trying to appear useful, grabbing her water bottle, nodding a lot, etc. but he is not Gracie's focal point as she steps out to compete.

    Los Angeles rinks will be awesome places to "stop by" in the coming months. Gotta' say it will probably help raise everyone's game to have all that heat and cat fur flying. Ashley. Gracie. Mirai. Courtney. Others? Agnes and Christina should do 2 day training road trips and train at Toyota or East/West just to stay "competition hazing" sharp in my opinion.
     
  11. FunnyBut

    FunnyBut Well-Known Member

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    The lesson of this article, which we already know so well, is that the evil Zueva can steal anyone away from anyone. Anyone! No Exceptions. :lol:

    Ourishiav, that poor naive father figure , stood no chance against such all-encompassing evil.

    The translation of this article is that Gracie will go to Carroll if Zueva permits it.

    My prediction is that Gracie will win a Olympic medal of some color if she is willing to leave Max Aaron for Fedor Andreev.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2013
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  12. WildRose

    WildRose Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like Gracie's family bought into all the hype and they are pulling out all the stops to get an Olympic gold medal. Who knows - it might even work - stranger things have happened at the Olympics. All these last minute changes seem rather frantic to me - like they are looking for quick fixes. There will be enough pressure on her as it is - hopefully they don't burn her out.
     
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  13. leapfrogonice

    leapfrogonice Active Member

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    Really? The smiley face does not mask the castigating tone of your comment. What's your history with Zoueva to make you so insulting?.

    Zoueva has been Gracie's choreographer for a few years now. The fact that she has had the opportunity to train in Canton alongside some of the top ice dancers in the world, while also continuing work with one of her long time coaches, Oleg Epstein, does not translate into Zoueva "stealing anyone... no exceptions" in my book.

    If Zoueva "permits it" Really? Zoueva has her hands full with several top dance and pairs teams. I cannot imagine that she would have either the interest or capacity to take on the responsibility of coaching one of the most hyped prospects in ladies singles to the Olympics.
     
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  14. Jun Y

    Jun Y Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I agree. However, perhaps Gold will and should go the all-jump-no-presentation route. If anything, Nichol is THE expert in getting the highest component scores for programs with no genuine expression. Why spend so much time and effort developing expression and performance (for which she obviously has no talent for) when you can fake it and make it?

    Nichol has the chops but only bothers with few skaters, eg, Kwan and Kostner.
     
  15. FunnyBut

    FunnyBut Well-Known Member

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    I thought I was being quite obviously tongue-in-cheek. I don't for a second think that Zueva or Carroll needs Gracie to enhance their career. Rather, Gracie has sought them out, and is willing to leave her extraordinarily devoted coach for them, because she thinks they are the best.
     
  16. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    Disappointing news... I thought she was coming into her own just fine last season. I love her comments about how different it feels working every day with an ice dance coach, so then, why Carroll? The cynic in me says this is just a political move to improve PCS by having a name as a coach.
     
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  17. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    That's my read on it too. She wants an OGM (or an Olympic medal of any color) and it helps to have a famous, respected coach sitting next to her in the K&C. I feel sorry for the coach she left after he invested so many years in her development.
     
  18. rhumba

    rhumba New Member

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    Has Marina coached any elite single skaters? I am surprised to learn that Gracie is being coached by Marina this crucial Olympic year. I am not sure if Marina can help Gracie in jump techniques. Gracie also deserves a better choreography. When compare with Igor who is busier since their split....it's a big question how Marina will be after this Olympic year when D/W retire. She will have only one elite team, the Shibs. She might try to keep Gracie for that reason??
     
  19. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Port de bras!!!

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    They are both to blame for not nipping it in the bud.
     
  20. peibeck

    peibeck Counting down the days 'til Skate America

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    I don't get this argument. Koster has only developed her artistic side in the last 3-4 seasons. Before that, she was pretty much like Gracie: fast across the ice with big jumps and very weak presentation.

    Huh? Gracie moved to Ouriashev in fall 2010. It's not like she's been with him since she was 5 or 6. And it's not like Ouriashev is "Mr. Warm and Fuzzy" with this skaters, so in that regard I don't think it will be a big change if she does end up with Frank. :lol:
     
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  21. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    IMO, Kostner had outstanding musicality from her senior debut in 2003. I don't think she's so much stronger artistically now as that she has cleaned up her jumps and doesn't make as many jarring mistakes (back then, she used to be wobbly and have step outs and hands down even on the jumps she landed).
     
  22. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    This. At his age and with his experience, he probably works with skaters he wants to work with (not with ones he "has" to work with to pay the bills) and with skaters who approach him, not the other way around.
     
  23. Lacey

    Lacey Well-Known Member

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    Yes, Gracie needs work, but mostly better choreography, so why stay with Marina, that SP music and program she presumably gave her is horrendously horribly hideous.

    But I agree it sounds like Evan is toast, so Frank might as well balance out his time with Dennis and have two skaters.
     
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  24. peibeck

    peibeck Counting down the days 'til Skate America

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    I guess we just have to disagree then. :lol:
     
  25. jiggs

    jiggs Well-Known Member

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    Here is Gracie's new SP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NU_Qcg4ekMY
    I have to be honest, I don't find this a huge improvement compared to last year.

    A choaching change at this point of the season seems very odd. If she really switched right after Champs Camp, maybe she got bad feedback there and simply panicked? It just all seems a little rushed ... I hope she knows what she is doing. We will probably never find out what really went on behind the scenes ...
     
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  26. Jammers

    Jammers Well-Known Member

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    I'm afraid with this switching coaches so close to the new season that Gracie is just going to end up as another promising skater who didn't pan out because she was pressured to much to soon. She was developing at her own pace just fine but now it seems like people around her like her parents are pushing her to fast and she's going to end up as another burned out skater. I hope i'm wrong.
     
  27. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    You mean Frank is warm & fuzzy? That's news to me.
     
  28. Iceman

    Iceman Well-Known Member

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    That short is a frantic mess. I think she is entering what will prove to be a very difficult period. Her strong suit, the jumps, seems in danger of failing her. Let's just hope she does't get stuck in a difficult time the way Mirai unfortunately has or proves to be a flash in the pan.
     
  29. algonquin

    algonquin Well-Known Member

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  30. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    It's still early in the season. It too early to see any improvement. Switching coaches in the Olympic season has worked for some and not worked for others. One thing is for sure- Gracie will benefit from Frank's reputation when it comes to PCS marks.