Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by FSfan107, Sep 14, 2013.
Did I miss that Frank Carroll would not be with her in Japan?
Yup. Probably the same without the metronomes.
ITA. It really looked < to me...
Before it had been announced that Frank and Gracie were a team, Dave & Jenny (TSL) mentioned that Frank would not be traveling to NHK and that arrangements were being made for someone else to travel to Japan with her. I guess they were right...
I like it, too. There's a certain expression it brings out of her.. Its kind of like Yang Yun on FX in 2000 (no I'm not comparing her to Yang Yun, just routine) - wtfish music but the expression is cool and matches the personality of the "noise" so you don't care as much. She's less akward and I see lots of progress in quality of movement, I think she'll have a bold presence on the ice soon enough. She has an un-abrasive personality which will be a strength to her artistry once she "gets" it. She will.
Unfortunately, I think Frank has cookie-cutter solutions to skater's issues, and when it eventually doesn't work, he blames the skater....Just give it time, they are "headcases", or need to lose some weight, or lazy...............
"Reigning in" a skater's jumps may be the solution for some skaters, but I believe GG's jumps are tanking even more now that Frank is slowing her down.
What did Gracie ever do to you? Genuinely curious, as every single post of yours seems to bash her endlessly or tear her (or her family down) in some way.
I normally ignore your posts on Gracie but I think you could not be more right on this one, demetriosj. He strikes me as someone who wants every lady he coaches to fit a certain mold whether it is right for them or not. Obviously he has a lot of strengths, but ...if she loses her jumps and her speed, she's just another teenage US lady.
Yes, because his coaching methods are so spectacularly unsuccessful
Gracie hasn't been with Frank for long, so I think it's a little early to jump to the conclusions. I trust Frank more than any other coach. He's just getting started with her.
There's no question he has tons of political pull.
Most skaters have come to him with all of their triples already.
So? Jumps are not the only part of programs, or of successful competitive skating.
As far as Gracie is concerned at this point, they pretty much are.
I actually prefer the current Gracie to the 'jumping bulldozer' of the past two seasons. As a spectator, it's much more pleasant to see a Lady who pays attention to music, choreography, edges and not just the jumps. The few weeks with Frank have had a positive impact on Gracie's overall style, IMO. She has plenty of time to put it all together before the 2018 Olympics in Korea, which, I believe, is her ultimate goal for victory. Sochi is her initiation.
if you repeat that over and over, does beetlejuice appear?
No, you just never see the younger skaters that Frank works with and are just focusing on the elite skaters. When Kwan came to him at a young age, she certainly didn't have all her triples!
I agree with chipso1 above, you do seem to have almost an unhealthy obsession with tearing Gracie Gold down, or at least that's how you come across in this forum. Or at least to me, who's not even a particular Gold afficionado. I can see where FC's short time with her has already improved her skating. The jump issues are temporary and will go away once she gets her overall skating rebalanced, I'm sure of it. Whether that will be enough for her to win/podium at competitions is another story.
I wish. I could then ask him to possess Gracie during her programs. Her PCS would go up, I promise.
I don't think you are right about this.
Hmmm, doesn't matter at this point, but I believe that Kween already possessed enormous talent prior to being coached by Frank, but I seriously doubt she had all her triples!
BTW, Johnny Weir had some interesting thoughts about Gracie's fp music which ITA and I've already mentioned in US ladies thread in Trash Can. Her fp music is too soft and doesn't fit her skating style. Interestingly, Johnny feels Radionova and Gracie should swap their fp music.
I think Gracie would do well to throw on a unitard, forego the pageant smile, put on a bitch-face and skate to music like Slutskaya's SP in Torino '06 or Debi Thomas's '86 and '87 SP music. Powerful stuff. Her speed, long limbs and jumps would make it work
I am curious about this, and I would like to place a question, without trying to imply anything, one way or the other.
With the exception of Michelle Kwan, who may or may not have had all her triples when she joined Carroll, are you saying that the young skaters Carroll brough up never made it to elite and/or noticeble results (you say: "you never see"), while the ones that had the important results while coached by him already came with their technical abilities?
Sounds great to me, Olympic! But I wonder if all concerned would be willing to deep-six Zoueva's zzzzz Beauty? Surely music is mucho importante and truly helps skaters when the fit is just right. Frank should know -- he's certainly no stranger to making music changes in the middle of a season. Is anyone taking a bet on the possibility of at least a fp music makeover for GG?
I say Go for it GG with unitard and bitchface too!
Not true in any case, loulou. Frank teaches a lot more people than just elite skaters. Re some of his other more well-known skaters: Chris Bowman was with Frank from a very young age. I believe Fratianne may have been coached by someone else bf Frank, but I'm not sure on that.
In any case, Fratianne progressed to the limelight under Frank. It's seemingly been later in his career that some more established skaters have sought out Frank, and NOT for nothing obviously. Tiffany Chin and Tim Goebel as well as Mirai (and Carolina K for a brief period) are a few stars that came to Frank from other coaches. Of course Evan switched to Frank's team before he made it big in seniors.
BTW, I think the poster you posed the question to means similar to what I said about Frank teaching a lot of skaters which doesn't mean he doesn't teach them well if they don't reach elite level. Maybe we don't realize and appreciate the odds of making it to the top in fs even with huge talent!
Yay to bitchface, unitard and powerful music for Gracie. Nay to pwetty pwincess/fake smile stuff.
No, you misunderstand, quite the contrary. I'm saying that Frank Carroll has coached skaters at different levels and some he gets pretty young while they are at lower levels of competitive skating under the USFS system. Many of them definitely don't have all their doubles much less triples. (Michelle Kwan went to him at age 10 and I'm sure she didn't have all her triples at that point.)
Like any coach, not all of his skaters are destined for elite competitive fame, but he certainly has had quite a number who started with him at the lower levels, make it to the regional, sectional, and national levels even if they never became household names representing the US internationally at seniors. These are the skaters "we never see" (well at least fans who aren't privy to the SoCal skating scene.) The current skaters we tend to talk the most about now went to Frank after they had already been coached to the senior competitive level by others (Evan Lysacek, Denis Ten, Carolina Kostner, Gracie Gold, etc.) but it would be incorrect to think that he's only been a "finishing coach" who does only high-level tech/style renovations or final polishing of the diamonds. How he prefers to now split his coaching career working with already elite-level skaters versus bringing up skaters through the juvenile, intermediate, novice ranks, I have no idea.
I say YES to all this!
I support such a plan for Gracie
..and I should mention it was Kwan's planned '05 - '06 SP music. How could I forget the Kween?