Gracie To Frank Carroll?

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by FSfan107, Sep 14, 2013.

  1. Lacey

    Lacey Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2007
    Messages:
    8,616
    Did I miss that Frank Carroll would not be with her in Japan?
     
  2. Jun Y

    Jun Y Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2005
    Messages:
    1,095
    Yup. Probably the same without the metronomes.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2013
    LilJen and (deleted member) like this.
  3. kwanatic

    kwanatic Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2011
    Messages:
    1,945
    ITA. It really looked < to me...

    Before it had been announced that Frank and Gracie were a team, Dave & Jenny (TSL) mentioned that Frank would not be traveling to NHK and that arrangements were being made for someone else to travel to Japan with her. I guess they were right...
     
  4. Karpenko

    Karpenko Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2003
    Messages:
    9,192
    I like it, too. There's a certain expression it brings out of her.. Its kind of like Yang Yun on FX in 2000 (no I'm not comparing her to Yang Yun, just routine) - wtfish music but the expression is cool and matches the personality of the "noise" so you don't care as much. She's less akward and I see lots of progress in quality of movement, I think she'll have a bold presence on the ice soon enough. She has an un-abrasive personality which will be a strength to her artistry once she "gets" it. She will. :)
     
  5. demetriosj

    demetriosj Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    1,073
     
  6. demetriosj

    demetriosj Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    1,073
    Unfortunately, I think Frank has cookie-cutter solutions to skater's issues, and when it eventually doesn't work, he blames the skater....Just give it time, they are "headcases", or need to lose some weight, or lazy...............

    "Reigning in" a skater's jumps may be the solution for some skaters, but I believe GG's jumps are tanking even more now that Frank is slowing her down.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2013
  7. chipso1

    chipso1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2004
    Messages:
    9,001
    What did Gracie ever do to you? Genuinely curious, as every single post of yours seems to bash her endlessly or tear her (or her family down) in some way.
     
  8. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2002
    Messages:
    10,617
    I normally ignore your posts on Gracie :) but I think you could not be more right on this one, demetriosj. He strikes me as someone who wants every lady he coaches to fit a certain mold whether it is right for them or not. Obviously he has a lot of strengths, but ...if she loses her jumps and her speed, she's just another teenage US lady.
     
  9. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2005
    Messages:
    17,514
    Yes, because his coaching methods are so spectacularly unsuccessful :rolleyes:
     
  10. FSfan107

    FSfan107 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2005
    Messages:
    1,544
    Gracie hasn't been with Frank for long, so I think it's a little early to jump to the conclusions. I trust Frank more than any other coach. He's just getting started with her.
     
  11. demetriosj

    demetriosj Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    1,073
    ? OK?.........................
     
  12. demetriosj

    demetriosj Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    1,073
    There's no question he has tons of political pull.

    Most skaters have come to him with all of their triples already.
     
  13. chipso1

    chipso1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2004
    Messages:
    9,001
    :rolleyes:

     
    LadyNit and (deleted member) like this.
  14. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2005
    Messages:
    17,514
    So? Jumps are not the only part of programs, or of successful competitive skating.
     
  15. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Port de bras!!!

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2002
    Messages:
    30,476
    As far as Gracie is concerned at this point, they pretty much are.
     
  16. Frau Muller

    Frau Muller President of Dick Button Appreciation Club

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2005
    Messages:
    7,894
    I actually prefer the current Gracie to the 'jumping bulldozer' of the past two seasons. As a spectator, it's much more pleasant to see a Lady who pays attention to music, choreography, edges and not just the jumps. The few weeks with Frank have had a positive impact on Gracie's overall style, IMO. She has plenty of time to put it all together before the 2018 Olympics in Korea, which, I believe, is her ultimate goal for victory. Sochi is her initiation.
     
  17. my little pony

    my little pony snarking for AZE

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2005
    Messages:
    30,560
    if you repeat that over and over, does beetlejuice appear?
     
  18. jiejie

    jiejie Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2013
    Messages:
    257
    No, you just never see the younger skaters that Frank works with and are just focusing on the elite skaters. When Kwan came to him at a young age, she certainly didn't have all her triples!

    I agree with chipso1 above, you do seem to have almost an unhealthy obsession with tearing Gracie Gold down, or at least that's how you come across in this forum. Or at least to me, who's not even a particular Gold afficionado. I can see where FC's short time with her has already improved her skating. The jump issues are temporary and will go away once she gets her overall skating rebalanced, I'm sure of it. Whether that will be enough for her to win/podium at competitions is another story.
     
  19. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Port de bras!!!

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2002
    Messages:
    30,476
    I wish. I could then ask him to possess Gracie during her programs. Her PCS would go up, I promise. :p
     
  20. demetriosj

    demetriosj Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2005
    Messages:
    1,073
    I don't think you are right about this.
     
  21. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2009
    Messages:
    4,559
    Hmmm, doesn't matter at this point, but I believe that Kween already possessed enormous talent prior to being coached by Frank, but I seriously doubt she had all her triples!

    ETA:
    BTW, Johnny Weir had some interesting thoughts about Gracie's fp music which ITA and I've already mentioned in US ladies thread in Trash Can. Her fp music is too soft and doesn't fit her skating style. Interestingly, Johnny feels Radionova and Gracie should swap their fp music.
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2013
  22. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2004
    Messages:
    6,972
    I think Gracie would do well to throw on a unitard, forego the pageant smile, put on a bitch-face and skate to music like Slutskaya's SP in Torino '06 or Debi Thomas's '86 and '87 SP music. Powerful stuff. Her speed, long limbs and jumps would make it work
     
    alilou and (deleted member) like this.
  23. loulou

    loulou Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2005
    Messages:
    1,750
    I am curious about this, and I would like to place a question, without trying to imply anything, one way or the other.

    With the exception of Michelle Kwan, who may or may not have had all her triples when she joined Carroll, are you saying that the young skaters Carroll brough up never made it to elite and/or noticeble results (you say: "you never see"), while the ones that had the important results while coached by him already came with their technical abilities?
     
  24. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2009
    Messages:
    4,559
    Sounds great to me, Olympic! But I wonder if all concerned would be willing to deep-six Zoueva's zzzzz Beauty? Surely music is mucho importante and truly helps skaters when the fit is just right. Frank should know -- he's certainly no stranger to making music changes in the middle of a season. Is anyone taking a bet on the possibility of at least a fp music makeover for GG?

    I say Go for it GG with unitard and bitchface too! :biggrinbo
     
  25. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2009
    Messages:
    4,559
    Not true in any case, loulou. Frank teaches a lot more people than just elite skaters. Re some of his other more well-known skaters: Chris Bowman was with Frank from a very young age. I believe Fratianne may have been coached by someone else bf Frank, but I'm not sure on that.

    In any case, Fratianne progressed to the limelight under Frank. It's seemingly been later in his career that some more established skaters have sought out Frank, and NOT for nothing obviously. Tiffany Chin and Tim Goebel as well as Mirai (and Carolina K for a brief period) are a few stars that came to Frank from other coaches. Of course Evan switched to Frank's team before he made it big in seniors.

    BTW, I think the poster you posed the question to means similar to what I said about Frank teaching a lot of skaters which doesn't mean he doesn't teach them well if they don't reach elite level. Maybe we don't realize and appreciate the odds of making it to the top in fs even with huge talent!
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2013
  26. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Port de bras!!!

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2002
    Messages:
    30,476
    Yay to bitchface, unitard and powerful music for Gracie. Nay to pwetty pwincess/fake smile stuff.
     
  27. jiejie

    jiejie Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2013
    Messages:
    257
    No, you misunderstand, quite the contrary. I'm saying that Frank Carroll has coached skaters at different levels and some he gets pretty young while they are at lower levels of competitive skating under the USFS system. Many of them definitely don't have all their doubles much less triples. (Michelle Kwan went to him at age 10 and I'm sure she didn't have all her triples at that point.)

    Like any coach, not all of his skaters are destined for elite competitive fame, but he certainly has had quite a number who started with him at the lower levels, make it to the regional, sectional, and national levels even if they never became household names representing the US internationally at seniors. These are the skaters "we never see" (well at least fans who aren't privy to the SoCal skating scene.) The current skaters we tend to talk the most about now went to Frank after they had already been coached to the senior competitive level by others (Evan Lysacek, Denis Ten, Carolina Kostner, Gracie Gold, etc.) but it would be incorrect to think that he's only been a "finishing coach" who does only high-level tech/style renovations or final polishing of the diamonds. How he prefers to now split his coaching career working with already elite-level skaters versus bringing up skaters through the juvenile, intermediate, novice ranks, I have no idea.
     
  28. LilJen

    LilJen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2006
    Messages:
    9,310
    I say YES to all this!
     
  29. Loves_Shizuka

    Loves_Shizuka Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2005
    Messages:
    12,292
    I support such a plan for Gracie :cheer:
     
  30. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2004
    Messages:
    6,972
    ..and I should mention it was Kwan's planned '05 - '06 SP music. How could I forget the Kween?