Gracie To Frank Carroll?

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by FSfan107, Sep 14, 2013.

  1. UMBS Go Blue

    UMBS Go Blue KWEEN 2016! YES WE KWAN!

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    Can't believe people are still harping on about Gracie here.

    In person, at Skate Canada, the SP music did grate, but the program itself was quite good, not to mention the skating itself. Yes, her jumps may not have been as high, and her speed not as fast as before, but her overall presentation has improved so much in such a short time. The Carroll influence really shows. She's now skating in a more traditional, conservative way (just as how Nagasu and Kostner looked under Carroll), her posture and carriage has improved substantially, and she projects further, and more confidently, into the audience, conveying security, stability, and solidity. All things I'd never sensed from her before. It's like she was too nervous to breathe before, while now she's actually learned to take a deep breath and hold her back up in a less tense, stiff manner.

    Looking forward to seeing her improve further over the season, not to mention gain the confidence she needs to peak this coming winter. :)
    Doggygirl, IceAlisa, FSfan107 and 9 others like this.
  2. Jammers

    Jammers Well-Known Member

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    I still would like to see a little more of that speed and power. It's her calling card but if she needs to reign it in to skate clean then it's worth it since she still is faster then most skaters. A podium finish here would be good since the competition is tough but skating clean is what she needs to do. Not just the SP or LP but both which she has yet to do internationally.
  3. PairSk8Fan

    PairSk8Fan Banned Member

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    Her skating is all jumps and spins without much of anything else that is world-class. She will live and die in competition based on completion of her jumps and spins, and she will forever be trying to catch up in regard to PCS.

    Let's see how NHK goes.
  4. maureenfarone

    maureenfarone Active Member

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    Thanks for this!
  5. Carolla5501

    Carolla5501 Well-Known Member

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    I know I am alone, but I actually like the music in the SP. It's not another "princess piano medley" :) As I said earlier, first we whine when they use music we have heard before and then we whine when they use something different from the stuff we hear every day. No win situation!
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  6. Mayra

    Mayra New Member

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    Welcome to US Ladiezzz fandom. Where the sky is always falling, Lori Nichol reigns supreme, you're done at 16 and you're only as good as your last competition. {Insert USFS is holding up xyz and so and so was robbed in 1957 rehash number 666 here}

    😝
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2013
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  7. kwanatic

    kwanatic Well-Known Member

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    I am not a Gracie fan but I definitely agree with this.

    I 100% agree with her presentation being better. Everything you said was spot on. I do think she still needs to work on her arms; they're not as stiff but still a little stiff and flailing. I really don't care for the music in her SP but, once I turned it way down, the program is decent enough. I'd like to see some of the footwork reworked but it's okay as is for now. I didn't notice too much of a lack of speed. She covers the ice nicely and effortlessly and has a really nice flow. I agree she looked extremely relaxed and confident in the SP. The FS was another story...what you said about her not breathing appeared to be what was going on in the FS. She was tense from the very beginning and it showed.

    Gracie has made improvements to her presentation (which was my main issue with her). It is going to take some time for her to get it together, assuming she can. Not everyone has the mental strength necessary to be that kind of competitor. We saw a flash of it at nationals last year but then again, she was skating from 9th place...the pressure is different when you're skating with the lead. We've seen it happen time and time again from a number of really excellent skaters. Sometimes the pressure of being in the lead is too much. We'll have to see if Gracie learns how to handle it...
  8. bardtoob

    bardtoob Well-Known Member

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    Not Tenley Albright? ;) . . . :argue:
  9. SmallFairy

    SmallFairy Well-Known Member

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    :D:D
  10. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Port de bras!!!

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    Really? People, especially seasoned posters are shocked that others STILL complain about Gracie???!!! For crying out loud, people still complain about Tara's Olympic win in Nagano when some of current top ladies were toddlers. People will continue to complain about all and any skater, otherwise this place might as well shut down. :soapbox:

    Oh and what Mayra said.
  11. skatesindreams

    skatesindreams Well-Known Member

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    ^^^
    You aren't alone!
  12. leapfrogonice

    leapfrogonice Active Member

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    For a sport that has just 3 and 4 minute windows of time with unique circumstances every time/event, it seems so wildly unrealistic to judge the fate of a season based on single performances. I suppose it's worse in some other sports, but still.
  13. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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    Karpenko!!

    Gracie ubers should now be known as GOLD DIGGERS, lol!
  14. Karpenko

    Karpenko Well-Known Member

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    :lol: It needed to be said... how much more obvious of a pun can you get?

    No Kanye, I'ma not let you finish and I don't care about your song
  15. FSfan107

    FSfan107 Well-Known Member

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    I'm a proud Gold Digger! :) Wishing Gracie the best of luck at the NHK Trophy tomorrow and Saturday.
  16. PairSk8Fan

    PairSk8Fan Banned Member

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    Gracie missed her combination and her 3loop was not stellar. The music seems better suited to an exhibition, experimental or show number. The costume wears her, not the other way around, and her PCS are not near the 8+ she would need to be in contention for medals at Worlds or Olympics. I was not blown away.
  17. kwanatic

    kwanatic Well-Known Member

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    She was much better at SC but at least she's in contention for a medal. She's tied with Elena right now so she has a shot to get on the podium. I'd bet more money on Elena having a better skate than Gracie though...then again, b/c Gracie is down in 4th, maybe she'll skate better than she did at SC when she had to skate with the lead...less pressure and all. BUT she will need to show up if she wants to get on that podium b/c Elena is a competitor/fighter and will definitely go for it in the FS.
  18. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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    She got lucky to receive full marks for the 3loop.
  19. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    When I watched her practice at SLC seome of her triples were borderline. She needs to keep an eye on that. Wouldnt be good if her improvtement in ppresentation is at the expense of her tes

    Eta I enjoy both her programs this season
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2013
  20. my little pony

    my little pony snarking for AZE

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    I really like it. I think it is expressive and creates a mood and suits her very well. It is not the best arrangement of it I have ever heard but that is true of most of the music I hear at any given comp.

    We enjoy the music but come on. They could all go out and skate to metronomes and the placements would all be the same.
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2013
  21. Lacey

    Lacey Well-Known Member

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    Did I miss that Frank Carroll would not be with her in Japan?
  22. Jun Y

    Jun Y Well-Known Member

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    Yup. Probably the same without the metronomes.
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2013
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  23. kwanatic

    kwanatic Well-Known Member

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    ITA. It really looked < to me...

    Before it had been announced that Frank and Gracie were a team, Dave & Jenny (TSL) mentioned that Frank would not be traveling to NHK and that arrangements were being made for someone else to travel to Japan with her. I guess they were right...
  24. Karpenko

    Karpenko Well-Known Member

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    I like it, too. There's a certain expression it brings out of her.. Its kind of like Yang Yun on FX in 2000 (no I'm not comparing her to Yang Yun, just routine) - wtfish music but the expression is cool and matches the personality of the "noise" so you don't care as much. She's less akward and I see lots of progress in quality of movement, I think she'll have a bold presence on the ice soon enough. She has an un-abrasive personality which will be a strength to her artistry once she "gets" it. She will. :)
  25. demetriosj

    demetriosj Well-Known Member

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  26. demetriosj

    demetriosj Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately, I think Frank has cookie-cutter solutions to skater's issues, and when it eventually doesn't work, he blames the skater....Just give it time, they are "headcases", or need to lose some weight, or lazy...............

    "Reigning in" a skater's jumps may be the solution for some skaters, but I believe GG's jumps are tanking even more now that Frank is slowing her down.
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2013
  27. chipso1

    chipso1 Well-Known Member

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    What did Gracie ever do to you? Genuinely curious, as every single post of yours seems to bash her endlessly or tear her (or her family down) in some way.
  28. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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    I normally ignore your posts on Gracie :) but I think you could not be more right on this one, demetriosj. He strikes me as someone who wants every lady he coaches to fit a certain mold whether it is right for them or not. Obviously he has a lot of strengths, but ...if she loses her jumps and her speed, she's just another teenage US lady.
  29. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    Yes, because his coaching methods are so spectacularly unsuccessful :rolleyes:
  30. FSfan107

    FSfan107 Well-Known Member

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    Gracie hasn't been with Frank for long, so I think it's a little early to jump to the conclusions. I trust Frank more than any other coach. He's just getting started with her.
  31. demetriosj

    demetriosj Well-Known Member

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    ? OK?.........................
  32. demetriosj

    demetriosj Well-Known Member

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    There's no question he has tons of political pull.

    Most skaters have come to him with all of their triples already.
  33. chipso1

    chipso1 Well-Known Member

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    :rolleyes:

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  34. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    So? Jumps are not the only part of programs, or of successful competitive skating.
  35. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Port de bras!!!

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    As far as Gracie is concerned at this point, they pretty much are.
  36. Frau Muller

    Frau Muller President of Dick Button Appreciation Club

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    I actually prefer the current Gracie to the 'jumping bulldozer' of the past two seasons. As a spectator, it's much more pleasant to see a Lady who pays attention to music, choreography, edges and not just the jumps. The few weeks with Frank have had a positive impact on Gracie's overall style, IMO. She has plenty of time to put it all together before the 2018 Olympics in Korea, which, I believe, is her ultimate goal for victory. Sochi is her initiation.
  37. my little pony

    my little pony snarking for AZE

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    if you repeat that over and over, does beetlejuice appear?
  38. jiejie

    jiejie Active Member

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    No, you just never see the younger skaters that Frank works with and are just focusing on the elite skaters. When Kwan came to him at a young age, she certainly didn't have all her triples!

    I agree with chipso1 above, you do seem to have almost an unhealthy obsession with tearing Gracie Gold down, or at least that's how you come across in this forum. Or at least to me, who's not even a particular Gold afficionado. I can see where FC's short time with her has already improved her skating. The jump issues are temporary and will go away once she gets her overall skating rebalanced, I'm sure of it. Whether that will be enough for her to win/podium at competitions is another story.
  39. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Port de bras!!!

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    I wish. I could then ask him to possess Gracie during her programs. Her PCS would go up, I promise. :p
  40. demetriosj

    demetriosj Well-Known Member

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    I don't think you are right about this.