GPF Dance

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by haribobo, Oct 13, 2010.

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Who will make GPF?

  1. Davis/White

    94.4%
  2. Pechalat/Bourzat

    90.7%
  3. Bobrova/Soloviev

    33.5%
  4. Faiella/Scali

    84.5%
  5. Cappellini/LaNotte

    49.1%
  6. Kerr/Kerr

    69.6%
  7. Hoffman/Zavozin

    3.1%
  8. Crone/Poirier

    40.4%
  9. Shibutani/Shibutani

    8.1%
  10. Riazanova/Tkachenko

    1.9%
  11. Ilinykh/Katsalapov

    41.0%
  12. Gorshkova/Butikov

    4.3%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. chipso1

    chipso1 Well-Known Member

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    I agree. While still a bit of an issue, I noticed tremendous improvement in Vanessa's posture and skating skills last season.

    For the poll, I picked Davis/White, Pechalat/Bourzat, Kerrs, Cappellini/Lanotte, Faiella/Scalia and Ilinykh/Katsalapov. However, with Tessa and Scott out of Skate Canada, this is a huge opening for Crone/Poirier, and I think they could sneak into the GPF again.
  2. DORISPULASKI

    DORISPULASKI Watching submarine races

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    Exactly. ITA.

    BTW, this is the result of the way seeded skaters are assigned to the GP events. At every event, there will be one team from places 1, 2 or 3 at Worlds, and one team from 4, 5, 6 at Worlds, provided they are healthy and have not retired. Plus teams placing 7 to 12 at Worlds (another 6 teams) each get 2 events, and are distributed more or less evenly around the 6 events. Consequently, a team who was not at worlds (like I&K) will always be competing with 2 teams that are in the top 6 at worlds, and likely 2 more teams who placed 7th to 12th. Medalling in your debut is thus quite difficult unless a seeded team screws up majorly or withdraws or retires. Debutting right after an Olympics is the best bet, because there are generally the most retirements then. And the most teams taking a year/GP season off, in some cases.
  3. Tak

    Tak Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure why you think this, but when I saw them live at the Jr GPF last year they were not slow. From what I remember, they were the fastest team there. More than that - I dont remember them slowing down that much on the elements - they seemed to sustain their speed throughout the dance. They made some mistakes, which is why they didnt win. But they were not slow.

    I last saw B/S live at the NHK Cup when their FD was R/J. I/K were much faster than B/S [who I would say were slow then - I'm not sure about now].

    I think they have a good chance to do at least as well as V/M and D/W in their debut season. And I think that last open spot for the final will come down to a battle between B/S, I/K and C/P. I'm hoping I/K can get the silver at NHK, but I dont know. From what I saw last year, they were already better than C/L, who really do not look that good when you see them live. If the contest is fair [ie judged on the skating, they should have a chance to beat them.
  4. DORISPULASKI

    DORISPULASKI Watching submarine races

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    That's fair, I think.

    However, C/L have a kickass SD (beating P&B in that phase of Nebelhorn with a score of 59.86). And I/K didn't,particularly (IMO), unless it's changed a lot from the Russian test this summer. Likewise, there's the question of what levels they are going to get on the 2 GW segments. So the question is, how far ahead of I/K will C/L be after the SD, and can I/K catch up in the FD? C/L's FD did not impress (4th place in that segment, with 83.42), and they actually finished behind the Shibs (2nd in the FD, 86.10) in that segment of the competition. So it will be interesting, I think.

    I do wonder why the Russian Fed didn't have I&K appear at Nebelhorn or Finlandia, to get their senior debut earlier.
  5. Fashionista

    Fashionista New Member

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    I guess Dragonlady just sees in I/K a potential threat to her favorites.
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  6. ~tapdancer~

    ~tapdancer~ Well-Known Member

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    When it comes to the Russian teams, I'm just not ready to uber for I/K yet. I've liked Bobrova/Soloviev for the last few years and I want them to have their time. I sure liked what I saw of their programs for this year. Glad to see some improvement, especially in their speed.
  7. Dragonlady

    Dragonlady New Member

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    No I don't. I quite like this team, but I think that people are setting expectations for them WAY too high this year. Last year they benefitted from a generally weak field in Juniors and from some of the more experienced teams having major screw ups.

    Even the Russian federation is downplaying expectations for I&K this season, saying Plaatov's teams are suffering from insufficient ice time and their training situation needs to be improved. There is some problem with their home rink in terms of the availability of ice-time and all of Plaatov's teams have been reduced to 10 hours per week on the ice.

    As to my comment that they are slow, I agree they were not slow last year, but the video I've seen of their programs this season were not impressive and they were slow. I didn't think they are well served by their material this season, nor have I seen they skate it full out.

    Both D&W and V&M benefitted from being the first teams to come up through Juniors having only ever skated under CoP. It gave them a huge leg up on the teams who started under 6.0 and changed over to CoP mid-career. D&W and V&M arrived in seniors with level 4 elements while the older teams struggled to achieve the highest levels. Even in their first senior season, they were outscoring the top teams technically but lacked the speed, flow and ice-coverage of the more mature teams.

    I&K arrive in seniors with no such advantage. All of the current teams have been competing under CoP for years. Not only that but D&W and V&M have both indicated that they're sticking around, perhaps to Socchi. These are the two most technically proficient teams in the history of the sport.

    I'm not saying that I&K have no hope of winning gold in Socchi, I'm just saying that it won't be a walk in the park, politics or no politics.
  8. oleada

    oleada Well-Known Member

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    I/K's coach is Zhulin, not Platov
  9. Fashionista

    Fashionista New Member

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    :huh:
    Some of your statements make me think I live in a parallel world.

    You mean Zhulin?
    This is not the Russian federation who is downplaying expectations but personally Tarasova who's doing it. I wouldn't believe everything Tarasova says. She's very controversial figure in Russian figure skating world and can be very biased. If you read her interview with her guesses about Zhulin's group training conditions then may be you should listen to another side of this story - Zhulin himself? His fresh interview is posted and translated in Russian news thread. BTW :sekret: says Zhulin has no problems with ice availability.

    When I saw the first D/W's FD skate last August I thought they looked like junior team. Their footwork was dreadful. The dance itself looked generic and overall :blah: But we saw how they progressed during the season and won olympic silver. So I wouldn't jump to any conclusions on any team based on the first skate in the season.

    But who says it would be a walk in the park?
    I mean it's obvious so maybe there's no use to point it out in every thread related to them?

    What annoys me in your posts is that you're stating things that can be qualified as a total crap (like I/K are slow and they benefited form last year's weak junior field). That make you look biased.
  10. MikiAndoFan#1

    MikiAndoFan#1 Well-Known Member

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    What annoys me is that people are exaggeratedly hyping Elena & Nikita. They're young, this is going to be their first senior year and there are still four years left until the 2014 Olympics. Anything can happen. Let's see how things turn out until then.
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  11. Dragonlady

    Dragonlady New Member

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    I'm reading a LOT of posts which said they were going to win Olympic Gold in Socchi starting the moment they won Jr. Worlds. When people said that Virtue & Moir were going to win gold in Vancouver the year they won Jr. Worlds, I thought people were out of their minds. They would be too young.

    Sorry I screwed up Zhulin and Plaatov. I knew it was one of those two, but I'm not completely up to date on the coaches of every ice-dance team in the World. I knew it was a Russian World Champion but was unsure as to which one.

    I have even less hope for I&K knowing they're coached by Zhulin, considering what he did for/to the French team last year with their perfectly awful "Requium for a Dream" program.
  12. Autumn_girl

    Autumn_girl Active Member

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    Zhulin didn't make this program. P/B had their own choreographers, Zhulin only coached them. This season he choreographed their program (Charlie Chaplin FD) for the first time. Zhulin made programs only for I/K (with Vlasova's help) last season, not for P/B
  13. dinakt

    dinakt Well-Known Member

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    ... and I/K had great programs last year, certainly made an impact.
    They were not ready to show their programs in August- Zhulin says it himself, and it was pretty obvious. So lack of speed in "Don Quixote" is not indicative of their ability to skate fast.
    It seems that I/K will go the way of Michelle/ Yu-Na :D - attracting strongest polarized emotions. For myself, I try not live in a fantasy world, but cannot help being their uber- I even liked that half- cooked Quixote, for what it might become. Only one more week to wait!
  14. sap5

    sap5 Well-Known Member

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    Actually, they only had all level 4's in the FD. Still, a great accomplishment. ;)
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  15. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    Like even if you don't like Pechalat and Bourzat they are top 6 in the world. Right now some consider that an impossibility for I/K because of Zhulin but you know P&B prove otherwise.
  16. Dragonlady

    Dragonlady New Member

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    Ubers who persist in making claims of greatness for a team which has yet to skate in seniors are going to get a rough ride. It is not the skaters who "polarize" the fans, rather it is the ubers with their over-inflated expectations and delusions of greatness before their team/skater has won anything, that push other posters into backlash mode.

    I remember the CohenHeads (tm) telling everyone that "Sasha had it all" when anyone with eyes could see she didn't, that that Sasha was going to be the greatest skater ever, easily eclipsing anything that Kwan did, and yet, at the end of her career, no Olympic Gold Medal, no World Championship, and only one US Championship, won when Kwan was injured and not there.

    Even when the skater lives up to the hype and achieves expectations, ubers get a rough ride and the Yu-NaBots and Maoists who post here are learning.

    And the list of former Junior World Champions who have had no success to speak of in seniors, is a long, long list indeed.
  17. DORISPULASKI

    DORISPULASKI Watching submarine races

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    I really hope that I&K are at least somewhat insulated from all this great next ones hype. That's a heck of a lot of pressure to put on them way too early in their career.
  18. Dragonlady

    Dragonlady New Member

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    Just because I thought the program was dreadful, doesn't mean I don't like P&B. If anything, the opposite is true. I like the team even though the program was awful.

    It is also to be noted that while they finished 4th at Worlds this past season, they did so by dropping the Requiem for a Dream program after the Olympics and reverting to their circus program from the year before where they finished 5th at Worlds.

    Just because I'm a huge fan of any given team/skater does not necessarily mean I love everything they do.
  19. dinakt

    dinakt Well-Known Member

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    Sure. But being excited about their Senior debut does not automatically make one delusional. People react to big talent- Sasha had it, so do I/K. Nobody knows if they are going to make it, but it's a fun thing to look forward to. Of course life is littered with Great Hopes gone bad, we can only wish them to stay healthy and not to burn out.
  20. Fashionista

    Fashionista New Member

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    Dragonlady, could you please name anyone who posted in this particular thread that I/K are gonna be champions in Sochi? I can't find it, help me.
  21. Dragonlady

    Dragonlady New Member

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    One of the my greatest pleasure as a skating fan was falling in love with two children who were Canadian Novice Ice Dance Champions and watching them grow up on the ice to go on and become Olympic Gold Medalists and World Champions so I understand the excitement. Throughout this incredible journey, I was careful to keep my expectations low, so as not to be disappointed, and to enjoy watching them progress.

    In their first season, I thought they might be able to sneak into the top 10 at Worlds. They were 6th. In their second season, I thought they could contend for a medal, but 4th was likely. They were 2nd. The year of Tessa's surgery, I expected nothing for them. They were 3rd.

    The only time I went out on a limb in regards to V&M was predicting they would win the OGM AFTER seeing the debut of their LP at Thornhill. But everyone who was in the building that day was essentially saying the same thing, so I was hardly alone.

    I strongly believe that is it better to be pleasantly surprised at how well things are going than disappointed that my expectations haven't been met. Going back to my example of Sasha Cohen: a lot of people are disappointed she didn't do more. Being a World and Olympic silver medalist, and US Champion were great achievements, but those accomplishments pale when you look at all that was expected/predicted for her: OGM, multiple World Championships, first woman to land a quad.

    It's hard to enjoy the journey if your skater/team fall short of the destination.
  22. pumba

    pumba New Member

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    Very well said, Dragonlady! I am agree with most of it. So does this mean you actually like I/K that much?;)
  23. Dragonlady

    Dragonlady New Member

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    Oh yes. I am really looking forward to seeing these two progress but I'm keeping my expectations low and see how it goes. At this point, if they win a medal of any colour in either of their GP events, I'll be thrilled for them. I also admit to being very fond of Bobrova & Soloviev as well and I'm surprised they haven't risen higher since I first saw them at Skate Canada in 2007.

    My problem is I like too many skaters and I don't care where they come from. When they all show up at the same competition, I sometimes don't know who I want to win, although in ice-dance, it's always Tessa & Scott.

    Last season at Canadians, it was very difficult for me. I so wanted Crone & Poirier to go to the Olympics. In 2006 I sat at Nationals and said "If we take up a collection, can we buy Andrew Poje a partner who can keep up with him?", so how can I not cheer for Andrew now that he has that special partner? In the end I was cheering for Paul and Vanessa, but I felt guilty about not cheering for Andrew and Kaitlyn.

    I'm viewing Tessa's surgery this season as an opportunity for D&W to win Worlds. Cause I like them too.
  24. oleada

    oleada Well-Known Member

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    Oh I agree with this. If you see my first post in this thread, I'm actually surprised that so many people think they'll make the GPF.
  25. dinakt

    dinakt Well-Known Member

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    Word. I agree too, and also like skaters based on personal preference, regardless of nationality or even winning potential.
    ... which does not prevent me from being excited and curious about how it all plays out
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2010
  26. ~tapdancer~

    ~tapdancer~ Well-Known Member

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    oleada and dinakt...are you guys talking about I/K or Bobrova/Soloviev making the GPF?

    Well, I kind of agree with this but then again sometimes you just like a skater/team that you know will never be on the podium but they just have that something special and you do enjoy the journey. I loved Bourne/Kraatz and enjoyed their world medals...their 4th place finishes in the Olympics was hard but it didn't make me love them any less. I still very much enjoyed the journey with them.
  27. oleada

    oleada Well-Known Member

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    I am talking about I/K
  28. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    So you were wrong on V&M for 4 years later which you admit so you could well be wrong on I&K too. :p
  29. Dragonlady

    Dragonlady New Member

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    My expectations for them were always high. And they have always exceeded them. This is so much better than being a fan of a skater who melts down and falls apart, and still you love to watch them.

    How many North American ice-dance teams have finished in the Top 10 at their first Senior Worlds? How many North American teams have won a medal in their second senior year? I expected that, if they stayed together and continued to progress, Virtue & Moir had the potential to win Worlds. And even if they didn't, I didn't care, I just loved to watch them skate.

    And when I said that I thought they could make top 10 first year, people told me I was out of my mind. They'd finish 12th or thereabouts like every other Jr. World Champion team. People would post lists of skaters they couldn't possibly beat. This of course allowed me to do a little "Told ya so" dance in front of my computer after the results came up.

    Yes, I&K could exceed my expectations. I would rather be happily shocked to have them make the GPF than disappointed if they didn't. I don't think the pressure of unrealistic expectations is particularly good for any skaters.
  30. neptune

    neptune New Member

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    Well, D&W might have won anyway (they won the TES at this past year's Worlds), but this situation is certainly boosting their chances.
  31. Rafter

    Rafter Well-Known Member

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    Do you mean Jr champions? V&M never won the Cdn Novice title.
  32. Fallcolor

    Fallcolor New Member

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    It's a big pet peeve of mine, too! Ladies can get away with it in singles, but I have a big obsession with this in ice dancers. I think Vanessa can fix this soon enough though..if they can improve their skating as much as they did last season I think this should not be a problem. I think both skaters can do better in presentation however. Paul is an excellent single skater, but methinks his maturity could develop a tad more. I predict they will win Skate canada.
    As much as I too would like to see I/K kick some arse I think their having to catch up technically, would leave them a bit behind this season (like Mao). Not exactly fond of B/S and don't predict they will make the GPF, but won't be surprised if they do.
  33. Dragonlady

    Dragonlady New Member

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    I thought they had. I remember seeing them on the broadcast for the Jr. Canadians Championships when they were very small and they only show the Champions below Junior, not the other medalists.
  34. let`s talk

    let`s talk Banned Member

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  35. Dragonlady

    Dragonlady New Member

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    Well, one event down and both C&L and I&K now have no and little hope of making the GPF respectively. I&K would have to win their next event to have a glimmer of hope. I don't see that happening.

    Those thinking they should have the same career trajectory as V&M or D&W forget that these two teams both skated together for 10 years before they hit the senior circuit, and they spent three years together on the Junior circuit before getting to seniors. I&K are in their second season of international competition.

    4th at your first senior GP is a very good result.
  36. Libertango

    Libertango New Member

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    Last time I checked V&M and D&W did not make the GPF in their first year as seniors :shuffle:
    V&M: 2nd at SC and 4th at TEB
    D&W: 4th at SC and 4th at NHK
  37. DORISPULASKI

    DORISPULASKI Watching submarine races

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    Absolutely. 4th is a great start for a senior debut.
  38. Cloudy_Gumdrops

    Cloudy_Gumdrops New Member

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    It really is.

    Now maybe some people will lower their expectations a bit.

    This is their first senior season and only 2nd real full season of competing. They're doing pretty damn well for a team that doesn't have the experience of most of the others they'll be competing against (esp. those who have been together for years and years).
  39. elif

    elif Active Member

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    yes but performance not good. only rotational lifts and twizzle got level 4 in the FD. they can do much more than that.

    Maia SHIBUTANI / Alex SHIBUTANI
    Base Value 37.00, tecnical score 42.67 (GOE=5.67)
    Kaitlyn WEAVER / Andrew POJE
    Base Value 35.50, tecnical score 40.34 (GOE=4.84)
    Elena ILINYKH / Nikita KATSALAPOV
    Base Value 32.00, tecnical score 36.85 (GOE=4.85)

    and

    Dora TUROCZI / Balazs MAJOR
    Base Value 32.00;)
  40. DORISPULASKI

    DORISPULASKI Watching submarine races

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    OTOH, C/L, base score 30.0 :wuzrobbed: worst of the event, other than the Chinese.

    and M/N base score 33.5