Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by jlai, Mar 29, 2010.
But she's still eligible to be invited, right?
Kimmie is only going to have around 267 world standings points when the 07/08 season results are dropped, so she will not have the ranking or SB scores to be "invited" to any of the GPs, she could only be assigned to SA by the USFSA (host pick).
No. Only the Top 75 from the Season best list are eligible to be invited. Since Kimmie didnt compete this year and her world standing will drop dramatically next season once the 2007-2008 points are removed (probably below 80th) her only chance of getting a GP event is Skate America. However, I'm not sure if that stupid rule about previosly seeded skaters that allowd S/Z and Sasha to get 2 events will be allowed this season, if it continues she might get a chance but that rule was Probably only an olympic year thing.
That being said, if Kimmie decides to give it another chance, Im positive USFS will not hesitate in inviting her over any of the 2nd tier ladies, just like they did with Emily Hughes as soon as the 3rd spot for SA became available.
I think Armin will likely get 2 (though it's not guaranteed). He got 2 this year and did okay. Grant didn't medal at jw or jgpf so what he and Messing get depends on Lysacek/Weir/Bradley.
I don't think Agnes Z will do gps, and I think Gilles, like Armin, did well enough in gps to likely get at least one if not 2 gps.
Grant Hochstein has better chances of getting a 2nd event (and maybe even first) before Armin gets it IMO. Armin got 2 this year thanks to his very good run at junior the previous year but this season he did poorly at both GP events he got (9th and 11th which means he didnt even gain any WS points from them) and completely bombed at Junior Worlds. OTOH Grant is the next ranked american guy after all the big names, made the JGP Final and finish a very good 5th place at Jr. Worlds.
Anyone who retires or breaks up before the last Team Envelope check arrives is not eligible for the final check. I suspect that we'll start hearing about more retirements and break ups that have already occurred once those checks are cashed.
Copied over from the Flatt's plans thread in GSD:
Skaters that withdraw from Nationals due to injury (Maxwell, Musademba, Katz/Lynch) or don't finish Nationals (Carriere) usually have to monitor well in the summer in order to be considered for any international assignments. Neither of the above skaters are automatically eligible to be invited to a Grand Prix besides Skate America because they are not in the top 24 ISU World Standings or Season Best scores lists. Ditto for Bebe Liang, although she did finish a respectable 7th at Nationals (qualifying her for the C-1 funding envelope), and so I assume she at least will be considered for a Senior B if she plans to continue competing next season.
BTW, here's the link to a short clip from Angela Maxwell's exhibition number this past Saturday in NYC (includes her trademark backflip) that was posted today in the "One Step Closer Benefit" thread in GSD:
That's not true for Maxwell, Musademba and Carriere who ARE eligible to get invitations from the other federation's events. Only the top 24 Season Best are guaranteed of an event, but anyone in the Top 75 (like the three above mentioned) is eligible to get an invitation after all the guaranteed and host slots are filled. In ladies, the fields is crowded as usual so I dont expect Angela or Musademba to get any, but in Men's with all the retirements is gonna be a weak US field so Carriere (37th in SB list) will probably get at least one event.
Sorry I wasn't clearer -- I mean all but Katz/Lynch are in the top 75 SB scores list so, yes, technically they are eligible to be invited to a GP but it's hard to predict if being American will hurt their chances because of all the Americans (and non-Americans) ahead of them on the GP invite list.
I'm not so sure....with Emily, there really were hardly any other options with any kind of standing for USFS to choose- next most likely might have been Amanda Dobbs who I think finished something like 8th as a Junior at Nats the previous season (obviously she hadn't yet skated at 2010 Nationals at the time). Joelle Forte might have been considered had she stayed with the US.
With Kimmie, she hasn't competed at Nationals since 2008 whereas Musademba and Maxwell have been doing fairly well since then, making the JGPF several times and showing lots of promise. At this point, I'd like to see whichever of those 3 who does best over the summer get Skate America...hopefully there will be room for 2 of them or maybe even all 3 but who knows. With Zhang, Czisny, Nagasu, Flatt, Wagner, Gao, Dobbs, Gilles, possibly Zawadzki, Cohen, and Liang to consider (did I forget anyone?)......its gonna be tough! Man I hope to see a new face or two though. I hope a few of our journeywomen take the season off so there's room for everyone!
You are forgetting USFS's ultimate goal for Skate America is always to sell those tickets and make the event as much a success as possible. That's the way the event has been handled for years. The experience for the 2nd tier skaters is always a plus but if they have to chose between "never in Seniors before" Maxwell or Musademba and "Former National and World Champion" Kimmie Meissner, Im pretty sure who will be their choice.
You got a good point, but I really think the sooner Angela Maxwell is delivered to the public, the better off for everyone involved (provided she's in good shape, of course). She may not sell more tickets than Kimmie right now, but for sure she has more potential and is more exciting than basically all other ladies. When you have a skater as fantastic as Angela, you don't keep her hiding. I'm counting on USFS not to pull a move. I also feel more strongly about Kristine Musademba and Melissa Bulanhagui at this point than Kimmie, so I hope to see good summer and fall results for these ladies and then assignments to whomever does best.
Seriously, when is the last time Kimmie did a 3-3 or even competed at all for that matter? The only way I want to see her on the GP this year is if she proves herself in a major way over the summer, or a bunch of ladies sit out next season and Kimmie is one of the only options left....otherwise, Regionals and Sectionals for her please. Super nice girl, but fair is fair. Come on now.
To be honest, I don't have a good feeling about the chances of Kimmie, Angela or Musademba right now. Girls in the US don't make comebacks the way the Japanese girls do. I wish, for the sake of USFS female skater development, it had been different.
For every Joelle Forte there're 50 Christina Gaos.
What is that supposed to mean? Gao has great technique...her 3/3 and 3flip are among the best in the world. With Orser in her corner, I think she'll be just fine.
I think jlai just meant that for every US 18+ lady trying to make a rise/ comeback, there are 5 or 10 younger girls coming up the ranks who are just as good or better that will make that "comeback girl" not able to reach the top again. Which is often true, but then then as an eternal optomist, I always hold out hope for my favorites to make their mark before they get cast aside. Sure, the momentum is with Gao and Zawadzki at this time....but then a few years ago the momentum was with Kimmie, Katy Taylor, Bebe Liang, and more recently Deedee Leng and Ellie Kawamura. Things change years to years in this sport, and a skater who survives puberty in tact is often the most serious contendor of all.....
Thanks, haribobo. That's exactly what I meant.
That said, for US to be as successful as Japan, US can't just rely on teenage phenoms any more, esp. now that girls won't be able to peak at 15/16 and snatch gold at worlds or Olympics ala Lipinski/Hughes.
US has to develop girls who can surive puberty to some extent, and it does help to have some strong twenty somethings like Japan's Akiko Suzuki or Nakano. I think USFSA meant well when they promoted Czisny last year to pursue that effort, but alas, you can't buck the Forte vs. Gao trend.
I've copied the first 2 quoted posts below from the Russian up and coming ladies thread in the Trash Can:
Kulgeyko showed 2 different triples in Nationals (toe and sal) and had a popped flip in her FS (planned triple attempt?). Gracie Gold landed two 3Lz and a 3F in her Novice FS and I will be interested to see how she monitors this summer.
It's been discussed already, but having a consistent 3Lo may be a factor in selection because 2 or 3Lo is the required solo jump from steps in the Junior SP in 2010-11. Both Siraj and Jiang attempted 3Lo as Novices at Gardena Spring Trophy earlier this month (Jiang landed it as her combo in the Novice SP there).
Men, I don't know who's retiring so I won't try to figure it out.
SGP: Flatt (2), Nagasu (2), Wagner (2), Gao (2), Dobbs (2), Zhang (2)
Gilles (1), Czisny (1), Liang (1), Hughes/Meissner if they compete (1)
^^ depending on space, I wouldn't be surprised if Gilles and Czinsy each got 2 spots. Also Liang might not get any, but she did do well at nationals so they might still give her one.
Senior Bs: Czisny, Gilles, Liang, Zawadzki
JGP: Zawadzki (2), Baga (2), Siraj (2), Davis (2), Cesario (2), Jiang (2),Gong (1), Wang (1)
Regionals and Sectionals: Musademba, Maxwell, Kawamura
The first two where they withdrew and Ellie where she did so poorly at nationals. But all three did well on the JGP this season so they might get international assignments, senior Bs maybe?
As already pointed out, Czisny is almost guaranteed to be assigned to the SGP should she stick around next season. Her ISU World Ranking is safely within the top 24, and her SB score is in the top 75, too. I can't see her not getting assigned a GP event and being relegated to a Senior B event only.
ETA: Sorry, pinky! I missed that in your original post.
If Zawadzki is assigned to the JGP, she is not likely get a Senior B as well (Liang, Hughes, Bulanhagui and/or anyone with 1 GP or none may be considered). Last year, 4 U.S. ladies, 6 men, 3 pairs, and 4 dance teams ended up with Senior B assignments.
I know, that's why I said she will definitely get 1 SGP assignment and possibly 2. Alissa normally gets senior B assignments as well because they help with her confidence and nerves, so I predict that if she continues she will get either 1 SGP assignment and 1 Senior B assignment or 2 SGP assignments. She'll definitely get a SGP assignment, the question is just whether 1 assignment or 2.
I was more thinking if Agnes doesn't do the JGP, she might do a senior B and get 1 SGP assignment.
Czisny received a Senior B assignment this past season because USFS reportedly asked all the Grand Prix skaters if they wanted an extra comp. before their GP events and, as the 2009 national champ, she got first dibs on Nebelhorn. The year before, she was assigned to Nebelhorn because she had received 1 GP in the initial selection round (she ended up getting a 2nd one at the last minute).
She's currently the two-time champion of the Nebelhorn Trophy. No lady has ever won three Nebelhorns, so she may be interested in going again.
i have been doing a rough draft with everyone in from last year for women
guaranteed two is---mirai and rachel, probably two is ashley, carolina zhang , alissa- definitely 1--is agnes zawadki-could get two; christina gao- might get two depends on how; where assigned, and definitely 1 is amanda dobbs.
possible 1 for alexe gilles
it depends on who stays in which skaters from other countries stay junior or jumps up to senior-so it is possible that only mirai and rachel gets two and ashley carolina alissa agnes amanda and christina gao gets one.
the men i worked out i don't remember who.
but i went by 24 at worlds, top 24 scores and top 24 world rankings .
i didn't go by nationals at all.
I think with Caroline's 4CC medal and Ashley making the GPF - they will each get 2. Alissa and Amanda I don't think definitely will only get 1 - they could get 2 but it just depends on numbers, though if they do only get 1 I think each would also get a senior B assignment.
Agnes I think will do JGP, Christina might even do JGP again though I assume will move to seniors. If she does SGP I think she will get 2 because of her medal at the JGPF - I think she would get 2 assignments before Amanda or Alissa. She has one gauranteed and USFSA could give her SA if she doesn't get invited to another event.
Russians I think only Makarova and Shelepen will move to seniors. Gerdboldt is doing pairs, Gozeva won't get an assignment if Shelepen moves up. Agafonova, Ovcharova, Birukova I assume will do JGP again as they are so young.
Also if Rachael is in college full-time will she even be competing?
Kimmie is a question mark and the last time she competed she was doing very poorly - I agree the USFSA should give a SA assignment to Angela Maxwell over Kimmie. Angela is an incredible talent and is young with lots of potential. Plus she's so spunky and energetic she is sure to be a crowd pleaser.
Maxwell and Musademba have already done three seasons on the JGP. I'd rather see them in senior Bs and agree that Maxwell would be a great pick for Skate America.
Musademba has managed to have a very uneven three seasons, and I'm not sure that she ought to get even a Senior B this year -- she needs to buckle down and do well at the qualifying events and go into Nationals healthy and well-prepared. It does seem quite wrong to even consider putting her on the JGP circuit again given all of the other skaters and the limited number of JGP spots. She had her chances, and lots of them, and for a variety of reasons couldn't capitalize on them.
Speaking of Angela Maxwell, I believe it was reported around nationals that she had left her then coach Craig Maurizi. Who is her new coach? Is she still training in Hackensack?
While I more or less agree with your point, barbk, I'd say that Musademba has done fairly well for herself over the past 3 years- only 5 or 6 US ladies have a better track record. She's made several JGPFs and shown lots of promise...but her success trajectory has kind of stayed on the same medium level, not unlike what's happened to Bereswill and Gilles. I actually think Kristine has more potential than either of them but didn't move up to senior GP so we didnt see where she fit in there and then the injury destroyed her season. Angela Maxwell and Kristine are caught in limbo a bit at the moment and they'll have to get a lucky break or two to get on the GP and back into the mix. I'll be rooting for them- should be interesting to see what develops! With the right set of circumstances, either of them could hit top 5 at Nationals, but it will be a bit of an uphill climb.