Good enough to medal at worlds or Olympics, but never did- who are these skaters?

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Vash01, Jan 30, 2013.

  1. misskarne

    misskarne Spirit. Focus. Ability. Tenacity. Aussie Grit.

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    I'd like to add another vote for Alexander Abt.

    He really got harshed twice by the judges in the 2001-2002 season.

    First there was Euros, where even Yagudin knew Abt should have won, and yet somehow...

    Then there was the Olympic SP, where he was inexplicably placed fifth, and should definitely have been ahead of Plushenko.
  2. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Even more so.
  3. bardtoob

    bardtoob Well-Known Member

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    TOTAL EDIT:

    I added links to my post. I thought it was interest that Mabel Fairbanks' obituary is available on the UK's Guardian although she was not recognized at the height of her ability.
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2013
  4. aliceanne

    aliceanne Well-Known Member

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    Did Shawn Sawyer ever win a world medal? I always enjoyed watching him.
  5. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    IIRC, he went to Worlds only once, in 2006, and finished in 20th (or lower).
    I love him but I don't think he belongs to this thread, he didn't have a consistent 3Axel (2-footed, at best !). But his spins and presence were phenomenal !
  6. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    Peter Tcherynshev!
  7. Habs

    Habs Well-Known Member

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    In 2006 he finished 12th at the Olympics and 21st at Worlds.
  8. Spiralgraph

    Spiralgraph Active Member

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    Elizabeth Punsalan and Jerod Swallow. Creative programs (the race cars) good flow and togetherness on the ice. Too bad they skated when TPTB still hadn't accepted North American ice dancers.

    I'm sure I can think of other skaters later.
  9. RobinA

    RobinA New Member

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    That's the first name I've agreed with on this thread. Absolutely!
  10. screech

    screech Well-Known Member

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    I always loved Sebastien Britten's skating. But because of his damn triple axel he never made it higher than 8th at Worlds. But if he could place that high when the quad was becoming big, without even a triple axel, just imagine what he could have done with one!
    Habs and (deleted member) like this.
  11. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

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    Tchernyshev could have been a world medalist easily with a different partner-- amazing skater.
  12. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Shame about the partner. :p

    That's really sad. No respect for so many amazing skaters. You should be thoroughly ashamed of yourself.
    Norlite and (deleted member) like this.
  13. flowerpower

    flowerpower Well-Known Member

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    Oh, thanks for reminding me of Millot! Loved him too.
  14. Sasha'sSpins

    Sasha'sSpins Well-Known Member

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    Singing at fair and she was only 8 years old? That IS outrageous!

    I feel for Mabel Fairbanks and all athletes of her race who were denied their chance to shine. Just like in the Women's Baseball League during World War II. African Americans were not allowed to participate. I vaguely remember someone saying - Brian Boitano maybe? - that he always thought the greatest skater ever might have been from Harlem. But he/she never got the chance to skate. :( Even now the cost of skating at the higher levels is prohibitive-it is a challenge if not impossible for any family of little means irregardless of race.

    Punsalan & Swallow. I'll always say they deserved at least a bronze in World and Olympic competition. Politics weren't on their side. They skated in the wrong era. :(

    Laurence Owens. And who knows? Perhaps there were other potential World/Olympic medallists on that fateful flight in '61. :(

    Yamaguchi & Galindo. I believe with all my heart that had they continued they would have made a mark for themselves in pairs skating-and possibly won at the very least bronze at a Worlds or Olympics.

    The skaters who would have been at their peak when World and Olympic competitions were cancelled during World War II and never even got to compete at those events. :( I'm not sure but the same likely happened during World War I.

    Abt. Sigh.

    Sandhu. Sigh.

    Mirai. Sigh. Why do I always love the inconsistent ones?
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2013
  15. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

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    John Misha Petkevich. I'm not familiar with his skating, but I have read he was ahead of his time in musical choices and interpretation. He never placed in the medals at Worlds or Olympics but outside of them in 5th (1969-1971 worlds) and 4th (in 1972 worlds). He was 6th and 5th at the '68 and '72 Olympics respectively. I don't know a thing about his skating, but his television commentary was informative and very classy. I'm not surprised to learn he received a doctorate in cell biology.

    Video: John Misha Petkevich - Renaissance Man
  16. blue_idealist

    blue_idealist Well-Known Member

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    For the record, he also qualified for Worlds in 2011 (finishing 2nd at Canadian Nats) but when the worlds dates were changed due to the tsunami in Japan, he skipped them to do the Canadian Stars On Ice tour instead.

    The only competition in which he did a non two-footed triple axel was the 2011 Canadian Nats. I THINK he did one successfully in both the SP and the LP, although he might have put his hand down in the SP.
  17. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

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    I think Sawyer and Chris Mabee are two great Canadian skaters who I hoped would advance more than they did. I'm not sure about world medals though.
  18. TwizzlerS

    TwizzlerS Well-Known Member

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    It's a shame that Oda can't count. He had his chance a few years ago and I'm afraid he'll never get close again (if he even gets to go to Worlds).
  19. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Lack of a consistent 3axel meant Sawyer was never medal material but he was a very interesting skater with strong spins and beautiful presentation.

    Oda has only himself to blame for repeatedly doing 4 combos. I mean that mistake can happen to anybody but so many times? :duh:

    I guess he is extremely unlucky in that he's a strong skater who would make the Euros/4CC/Worlds team in pretty much any other country, easily. The level in Japan is just so high, though.
  20. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Tomas Verner... :(
  21. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    Andrei Griazev
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2013
  22. all_empty

    all_empty Well-Known Member

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    Julia is better than a lot of people give her credit for.

    There's a reason why she made the final group at several Worlds and in Salt Lake. Her jumps were huge, her spins solid and her speed and power excellent. I remember her practicing difficult jump combinations like 3S+3Lo with ease but she never seemed to get them into her programs.

    Her countrywoman Krisztina was an exceptional talent too -- the whole package.

    I wonder if they had better training conditions if they could've made it to the top.
  23. Nomad

    Nomad Well-Known Member

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    I agree with most of this but have to say a word about Czakó, one of my favorite OES. I don't think that she had "the whole package". Maybe if she'd had some ballet/dance training, but I don't think that she did. I did appreciate her artistry, though, under-developed as it was. Her Addams Family LP at the '97 Euros is my favorite program of hers.
  24. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    I thought that Kostner and Sebestyen should have been 1-2 in the SP in Dortmund, because Arakawa, whom I love to death, and Ando under-rotated their 3/3 combos, Cohen flutzed and her jumps weren't nearly the quality of anyone in the top six, and Kwan traveled all over the place in at least one of the spins and was generally meh (and that was before the casino ad guy jumped on the ice). I would have had Kwan ahead of her in the FS, but she would have had enough ordinal points from the SP -- I would have had Kwan 6th -- to catch Sebestyen for the bronze medal.

    The Italian women, who were involved with skating in Italy, who sat in our section and I shared our mutual disgust at the outcome.
  25. paskatefan

    paskatefan Well-Known Member

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    Alexander Abt
    Matt Savoie
    Punsalan & Swallow
    Roca & Sur
    Lang & Tchernyschev
    Gregory & Petukhov
    Eric Millot
  26. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Lang/Tchernyshev and Gregory/Petukov just didn't cut it because the female partners weren't up to scratch.

    Interesting! I didn't realise that. If only she was better at maintaining focus during competition.

    I couldn't agree more!
  27. JockProf

    JockProf New Member

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    Lisa-Marie Allen

    Wachsman and Waggoner
  28. blue_idealist

    blue_idealist Well-Known Member

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    I re-watched the SP from the 2011 Canadians today and it turns out I was mistaken about what I thought. He didn't even attempt a 3A in the SP, but he landed a clean one in the LP. I'm talking about Shawn Sawyer, btw - noticed it didn't say his name in my quote.
  29. senorita

    senorita New Member

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    Abt :swoon: and Savoie were the first to come to mind.
  30. Sasha'sSpins

    Sasha'sSpins Well-Known Member

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    Lucinda Ruh. She was born in the wrong era. Those gorgeous spins alone deserved a medal! :swoon:
  31. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

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    According to the protocols, he did go for the 3A in the short.
  32. blue_idealist

    blue_idealist Well-Known Member

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    I thought he did a 3-3, 3Z, and 2A, but I was quite sleepy while I was watching it..
  33. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Even today they wouldnt get nearly the credit in the grand scheme of the points system they should, or nearly enough for her to medal. For me if she could just put on a jumping display to the level of her 99 Worlds (clean triple toe and sal in short, 4 clean triple toe and sals in long, plus a barely two footed triple loop) her spins should give her a medal.
  34. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

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    Julia would have been great with better conditions, but would she have been a world medalist? Maybe. She had European votes and huge jumps, but she also had that grandma haircut and phoned-in Tarasova choreography.

    Julia Sebestyen 2002 Olympics FS

    In her later years she didn't show much improvement in the choreographic impression, but in 2010 I personally enjoyed watching her as a beautiful woman skater.

    Julia Sebestyen 2010 Europeans 2010 FS
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2013
  35. JJS5056

    JJS5056 New Member

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    Why is it that a skater is required to have ballet training in order to be considered the total package? While she was extremely rough around the edges earlier in her career, Czako's turnaround in the 96/97 season was quite remarkable. Her programs that season were an absolutely perfect fit for her; while her Addams Family program has always gotten much-deserved praise, her Masquerade Waltz SP was just as dynamic, IMO. Beyond the unique choreography, she was fast and powerful in her stroking, as well as in her spins and spirals, and her jumps in Lausanne were out of this world. A 3t-3t and huge 3z out of footwork placed her 5th- far too low. Regardless, these programs, along with her Nutrocker SP from 97/98 more than proved that she was well-rounded.

    What exactly happened to her following 98 Euros? Had she been able to continue, I think she certainly could have medaled at Worlds in 1998 or 1999, as she was just hitting her peak when she disappeared. She had gone to the Olympics at such a young age- 13 in 1992- that it's hard to believe she was only 19 in 1998. While she competed in a couple of B competitions a few years later, I don't think it is fair to judge those programs or performances. I think they had potential, and could have been great if performed throughout a season. Krisztina herself posted videos of these skates on YouTube- her partnership with Bobrin was, though short-lived, pretty magical.
  36. TheIronLady

    TheIronLady New Member

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  37. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    He had one of the best 3As. I saw his LP in Calgary at the 2006 worlds. He skated great but he was the first one to skate (after a poor SP) and he was held down big time by the judges. Not that he was going to medal there, but should have finished higher than he did. As a junior Andrei had great potential. He won the Jr. beating Evan Lysacek. It seemed like those two would be competing head to head over the years as seniors, but somehow Griazev never reached that height. I don't remember if he had injuries or nerves that kept him from reaching the podium at seniors. In 2006 I still believed that he could.
  38. emadden

    emadden New Member

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    I also agree with Josee Chouinard. She has grace, talent (I watched her do all the triples as well as axel in practice) and a great personality.
  39. 4rkidz

    4rkidz GPF Barcelona here I come

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    Loved.. loved.. loved.. her.. actually after Katerina Witt she was my next favourite skaters.. I was at the live comp that she won and she was amazing - she just popped into the air - such height.. too bad about her nerves she could have been world champ.. but I still loved watching her..
  40. Katarzyna

    Katarzyna Well-Known Member

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    I mention only those skaters, who don’t compete any longer (for others that come into my mind I still hope they will take their chance in 2013 or 2014 – I don’t want to curse them :p). My top three in singles starting with ladies:

    Josee Chouinard – NERVES! At times it was almost scary to watch the way she imploded during actual performance. :fragile:

    Lucinda Ruh – wrong judging system considering her strength, at times horrific training circumstances/surroundings & injuries. – Having read her biography I wonder how her career would have developed if she respectively her parents had decided to return to Switzerland for training and if she’d detected earlier how harmful her super fast spins were to her health. :(

    In case of a poll, my first place for ladies would, however, go to Viktoria Volchkova: like Josee Chouinard nerves again. She had a great jumping technique but most times couldn’t transfer it to competition (tough her body type was certainly not helpful for keeping together on the jump department under pressure). I remember her coach, Victor Kudriavtzev, mentioning in an interview how often she became sick before / during competition because of nerves. She also suffered from bad timing – when she was at her peak, the Russian ladies team was really strong (Slutskaya/Butyrskaya/Sokolova), so she was usually No. 3 on the team. Later on injuries started to set in (and some really stupid ones, like infected blisters, and so on). After all a pretty bad accumulation of career hampering factors! I’m actually surprized no one mentioned her yet! :confused:

    Russian sweep for me as far as men are concerned:

    Alexander Shubin: Wrong timing (so Russian fed didn’t promote him like they did with other upcoming talented young skaters) & injuries. Like it was mentioned with Andrej Griazev he beat Evan Lysacek when he won JW in 2003 with 8 triples and a quad if I recall it right. So much potential that never realized. :wuzrobbed

    Ilia Klimkin: skated the wrong time as he had to compete against Yagudin/Plushenko/Abt at their best during his own peak years, then injuries set in. Considering his strengths (spins, interesting transitions), it’s a pity he had to compete under the 6.0 system for the major part of his eligible career. He also had his share of bad luck not only concerning his own health in terms of injuries – in 2003 he had to make a coaching change as his former coach childhood days had passed away. Certainly not an easy situation! :(

    My top pick for men, however, is Alexander Abt: Some :scream: injuries, which definitely hampered him from exploitation of technical capabilities combined with the most awful timing I’ve ever seen in skating (e.g. competing against Plushy & Yagudin at their peak during the quad era of 6.0 system). Add lack of support by own fed which also showed in judges’ marks on national and international level. Nerves also seemed to be a big issue – just a different skater in practice and competition, not only jump wise, but also the speed was at a total different level. :fragile:

    One side note: I wonder how skaters having such careers deal with it. Personally I think that in the long run you actually might be better off with having been a great skater, who fans will remember for her/his performances / skating even decades later despite they didn’t win the big medals, than having been a mediocre skater who won a medal randomly and you are only remembered for statistical purposes or even worse in a context like it can be seen in the “least appealing medallist thread”. ;)