'Good Day New York' Host Greg Kelly Accused of Rape

Discussion in 'Off The Beaten Track' started by Rex, Jan 26, 2012.

  1. Really

    Really No longer just a "well-known member" Yay!

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    Like the possibility in this case? Joe Scarborough was livid when he was talking about this on "Morning Joe" the other day (Thursday or Friday morning, I can't remember). He was more incensed at the NYTimes publishing this story in the absence of any solid evidence...
    The NYTimes isn't the only organization at fault here; the Rhodes Trust and Yale area also at fault.

    I have absolutely no sympathy for any man found guilty of any form of sexual assault. I do have sympathy for those whose lives have been ruined by false accusations. In the case of this young football player, if nothing comes of the alleged accusations, the damage has already been done. That is sad.
     
  2. cruisin

    cruisin Well-Known Member

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    ^^ I knew about this young man and the Rhodes/Yale football game decision. I was unaware of the sexual assault allegations. Wow, that's awful.
     
  3. Really

    Really No longer just a "well-known member" Yay!

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    "Reliable Sources" on CNN is just about to do a story on Witt's case and NYTimes article, along with something about the story that started this thread.
     
  4. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

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    The 'public' has a right to be skeptical especially because it's happened before, many times. An accusation like hers until proven can be devastating to whoever was accused even if found she lied. The stigma will never go away. So excuse me for wanting a few answers before I crucify the man.

    Also I can easily turn your words around on you.

    I am absolutely appalled that you jumped immediately to the conclusion that he did it.

    Until all the facts come out, I'm going to go with innocent until proven otherwise.
     
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  5. cruisin

    cruisin Well-Known Member

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    No one "asks for it". No one should ever be forced to have sexual relations. But, this situation just doesn't sound right. Every situation needs to be evaluated individually. Just because people don't believe this woman, it doesn't mean that they don't usually believe it if a woman claims to have been assaulted. My biggest "red flag" on this case is the fact that she didn't report it as assault until her boyfriend found the texts and she got caught. So, for me that would imply that she was trying to cover her butt. I also wonder why a person who was sexually assaulted would contact the assaulter and ask them why they are not calling them. Something smells bad with this. And this should never have become public unless and until there were formal charges, which there are not.
     
  6. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    I can see why.
     
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  7. Matryeshka

    Matryeshka Well-Known Member

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    Almost ALL first dates involve going out with a man you don't know that well beforehand. Most of us do not date the boys we've known 10+ years. And I don't know how it is where you live, but here, most first dates involve either going to get coffee or going out for drinks. And are you seriously telling me that never in the history of your dating career, you've never, ever invited a guy back to your place maybe a little earlier than dating wisdom says you should have? I have. Most of us have. Most of the time it does not end in violence, but if it does, it's not the victim's fault. You don't get to blame the victim so you yourself can feel safer.

    But besides all that, whatever her errors in judgement were, it doesn't excuse his behavior. .Rape is not a crime of passion. It is not "I got so turned on I couldn't stop." Rape is about violence and power over someone you perceive to be weaker.

    You don't have sex without the other person's consent. That's the law. If you break that law, it's called rape. It's very simple. Anything else is just smoke and mirrors.
     
  8. BigB08822

    BigB08822 Well-Known Member

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    I still think this is a case of regret and I doubt charges are ever brought against him. Unfortunately people will probably blame his father's connections as the reason and he will have his name forever tarnished. Who continues to flirt with their rapist? She doesn't even remember much of the night but that does NOT mean she was passed out. She may have been initiating everything and she just has no memory of it or a very fuzzy memory. That is not rape, that is called regret.
     
  9. WindSpirit

    WindSpirit OmnipresentAdmeanistrator

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    You're being tacky, to say the least.

    I think you're the one who doesn't get it, after all.

    Even if a person invites another to their house alone with the intention to have sex but changes her/his mind anytime and the guest does not honor it, it's still going to be rape.

    It doesn't matter why the guest was invited to the house, whether they were alone, what his/her expectations were, or even that initially the person who invited them agreed to have sex. If someone wants another person to stop, they need to stop. No means no. And the initial yes is not a contract.

    If you initially wanted to have sex with someone, but they started to act weird and you changed your mind, do you have to go through with it? Maybe they started hurting you? Do you have to suffer through it? What if you agreed to make out and fool around without having an intercourse but they tried to make you have one anyway? Is your no less valid then? What do you think a date rape is? Can a prostitute be raped? A wife?

    All that "What was she expecting would happen?" accusatory tone is vile.

    I agree that one should take precautions to not put themselves in the harm's way, it's common sense, but nothing should undermine everyone's right to say no.

    Having said that, in this particular story, I'll withhold my judgement until there's more information. I'm not particularly buying the woman's account, but I'm far from blaming her. If she's lying, I hope she will get punished. Fake rape accusations are as damaging and despicable as the rape itself. To the person falsely accused and to the real rape victims.
     
  10. cruisin

    cruisin Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you. But in this case it was not home. She brought him to her office, because her boyfriend was home. I have to wonder what she planned to do in her office, with a man she had had several drinks with. I mean, there was no let's have coffee, let's have a drink, let's watch a TV movie, let's sit on a sofa and talk. And, as I already said: why did she wait until she got caught, to report it? Why did she continue to txt him afterward?

    Completely agree. Especially the bolded.
     
  11. Aceon6

    Aceon6 Get off my lawn

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    ^This. A teacher at the local middle school was falsely accused of having a sexual relationship with a student in 2008. He was completely cleared in 2010, but by then his life was ruined. Because he was suspended without pay, he lost his house.

    Turns out the girl was having a sexual relationship with a boy in her class and contracted a STD. Instead of getting the boy in trouble, she said the teacher did it.
     
  12. Beefcake

    Beefcake Guest

    Yes. The more I read (even if only 1/2 of the things reported "out there" are accurate), the more I am convinced she is lying for self-serving/cover-up purposes. I'm now mostly withdrawing my "she may have had post-coital drinking binge blackout and incorrectly filled in the blanks" pass.

    If so, it's engraging because she has demolished a man's career and reputation. Some here and elsewhere will continue to call him a "rapist" versus "accused/wrongly accused/exhonerated" and continue to call this a "rape" versus "accused/wrongly accused rape" even is he is declared emphatically "innocent", ala the Duke lacrosse players. That's wrong.

    And - yes - it's enraging because every false accusation chips away at the credibility and public perception of true date/spousal rapes.

    I truly do feel women's POV when it comes to rape, the right to say "no" at any point of an encounter, and the law's/society's problem with making a woman prove it. But, I think this case is not the one to get behind.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 30, 2012
  13. Anita18

    Anita18 Well-Known Member

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    Agree on all counts.

    I've had times myself where I'm in the mood but then don't feel up to it anymore, and I feel very very grateful when I tell my bf I have to stop and he gladly obliges. He finds no pleasure when I'm not having fun. I find it sad that many women don't have that.

    And yes, fake rape accusations make me :mad:. Way to take rape seriously.
     
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  14. michiruwater

    michiruwater Well-Known Member

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    IT STILL DOESN'T MATTER. The location DOESN'T MATTER. Yes, she probably brought him up to her office with the idea of having sex. That's a logical conclusion, because wtf else were they about to do there?

    However, if she changed her mind, and he forced her, it's still rape. If he began to hurt her, or acted weird, and she told him to stop, and he didn't, it's still rape.

    Consent can be withdrawn no matter the location. Once it is, all actions must cease, or it is rape.

    And this doesn't pertain just to this story, but to all rape situations that have ever occurred. Just because a woman wants to have sex with someone in one moment does not mean she cannot change her mind in the future, and if she changes her mind then he shouldn't force her to have sex. Period.
     
  15. milanessa

    milanessa engaged to dupa

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    Is this what happened?
     
  16. michiruwater

    michiruwater Well-Known Member

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    Oh, I have no idea. I was speaking in general principle.
     
  17. WindSpirit

    WindSpirit OmnipresentAdmeanistrator

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    I've heard of a few stories like that. I think many young girls (and some women) don't understand how devastating a false rape accusation can be, and what dire consequences it can have for the falsely accused and their families, for the real rape victims, and for themselves (as it should). I think that should be included in general sexual education, either at home or at school, or both.

    As well as reiteration that if you decide to have sex with someone, there's another person involved, not an object. And as with any dealings with another person, we always have to take into considerations their feelings, wants and rights. That's what rape is, when someone ceases to be perceived as a person and becomes an object.

    I don't buy her story, either, and it's a damn shame if she's lying, not only because of all the consequences for the falsely accused and real rape victims, but she's a grown and educated woman, she should know better. There's no excuse.

    I don't think that's solely a woman's POV. Men get raped, too (and for them it's even a bigger stigma). I doubt anyone would enjoy being treated as an object.
     
  18. BigB08822

    BigB08822 Well-Known Member

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    From everything I have read she has NEVER claimed she asked him to stop! People need to quit thinking about rape in general and think in terms of this case because some of these comments wouldn't seem so offensive if you quit applying them to every rape victim. She seems to just be claiming that she doesn't really remember what happened and therefore she was raped. I don't get the connection. Not remembering is not equal to passing out, as has been discussed. Not that I believe any of that excuse from her, anyway.
     
  19. Tesla

    Tesla Whippet Good

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    Could she have been drugged?
     
  20. BigB08822

    BigB08822 Well-Known Member

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    It is certainly possible she was drugged but there would be no way to know now. If he has never exhibited this kind of behavior before then why would he do it this one time and why drug a woman who seems to have been more than willing on her own? I doubt a law abiding citizen decides to randomly date rape a woman and never ever does it again.
     
  21. cruisin

    cruisin Well-Known Member

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    But,we are not talking about general principle here. We are discussing this one case. In general, if a woman changes her mind, the sex should stop, period! But there's something fishy here, she invited him to her office. I think most of us agree that her intent was for sex. As you said wtf else were they going to do there? As BigBo882 said she never claimed she changed her mind, she claims she doesn't remember. That makes no sense, considering she continued to text him and ask why he's not calling her. It is also rather convenient that she got amnesia after her boyfriend found the texts. I don't think she said no. I don't think she has no memory. I do think she is covering up what she did, so that her boyfriend doesn't think she cheated on him.

    I doubt it. She must remember something, she continued to try and reconnect with him. That certainly doesn't indicate that it was a bad (or forgettable) experience for her.
     
  22. michiruwater

    michiruwater Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but you keep bringing this up:

    My point is that this DOESN'T MATTER. It doesn't pertain to whether she made it up or didn't make it up. She either invited him up to her office for the purpose of having sex and they had consensual sex and she later accused him of something he didn't do, or she invited him up to her office for the purpose of having sex, changed her mind, he raped her, and she is accusing him of something he did do.

    The location and the fact that sex was the prerogative at some point in the night DON'T MATTER, in this or any other case, and repeatedly bringing it up makes it seem like women who are raped or abused after initially wanting sex were asking for it.
     
  23. cruisin

    cruisin Well-Known Member

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    And you keep taking that comment out of the context of the rest of my comments.

    1. She brought him to her office, probably for sex.
    2. She never said she changed her mind, she said she doesn't remember anything.
    3. She never filed a complaint until her boyfriend found her text messages to Kelly.
    4. She texted him asking why he didn't call her.

    All of the above indicates that there is something fishy, not just the office part.
     
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  24. michiruwater

    michiruwater Well-Known Member

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    And my point is that number 1 is NOT FISHY.

    I agree with you that 2-4 are fishy. They are just as fishy without number 1. Number 1 is NOT and does not indicate either way if a rape occurred or if she is lying. A woman can bring a man to her office for sex if she chooses to do so.

    My main issue is that, without 2-4, you'd only have number 1. Many people would say number 1 in and of itself is fishy, and that should never, ever be the case.

    I don't think that number 1 makes 2-4 any more or less fishy than they would be without it. I do think that it is dangerous to act like it does.
     
  25. BigB08822

    BigB08822 Well-Known Member

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    You can't take one sentence out of their post and keep focusing on it. It is OUT OF CONTEXT. We get your point, a person can change their mind! Yes, we ALL AGREE. That still doesn't change the fact of what happened here and it still makes some of us think this seems fishy and apparently the police agree.

    You can say "without 2-4" all you want but guess what, 2-4 do exist and that is how it is. You can't pick which facts you like and ignore the rest.
     
  26. cruisin

    cruisin Well-Known Member

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    I understand your point. And I agree with you. but, for our purposes here, point 1 has to be included. simply because, had she not brought him to her office (or somewhere) the situation probably would not have transpired.

    Now, please do not take this as condemnation or blame, under other circumstances where a woman does change her mind. But, women do have to be more cognizant of what they are doing. Not that they would deserve to be forced into sex, date rape, but do not bring a stranger to any place where you will be alone. It is dangerous. Again, I'm not saying that as a blame issue, but rather a precautionary measure. We do need to be more careful with our own safety.
     
  27. Anita18

    Anita18 Well-Known Member

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    And rape where a woman changes her mind just prior to or during sex (or "doesn't remember) is IMPOSSIBLE to prove. I think you can only really prove rape if the victim was obviously drugged or if she put up a real struggle. He-said she-said is never a good rape case. :eek:
     
  28. cruisin

    cruisin Well-Known Member

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    I think that the texts are going to be of significant value, in this case.
     
  29. BigB08822

    BigB08822 Well-Known Member

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    I will be surprised if this ever goes to court, to be honest. Wouldn't a judge look at this and say there is just zero evidence? Maybe she has something we don't know about but it sounds like the only thing she can prove is that there was sexual intercourse and that is it. I expect she will try to quietly drop charges.
     
  30. Japanfan

    Japanfan Well-Known Member

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    This sounds to me like the blame the victim "I'm not the type of woman to get raped" argument. All types of women get raped and most rapes are performed by someone the victim knows. Date rape is particularly common and during that year when you are getting to know a guy he might decide he doesn't want to wait for sex. You could be in a car or a secluded part of park, and it could happen. Or it could happen after you have consented to sex, on a occasion when you say no.

    In this case I'm saddened to once again see the victim's credibility immediately questions. It's possible that she was rape and didn't say so for some time because she was afraid to or in denial, or because her boyfriend supported her. Sure, it's going to be a difficult case to prove, but it could well have happened. Being drunk is generally see as equal to not giving consent, although the courts will probably need more than that.