Genrich Sretenski Arrested!

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Visaliakid, Sep 5, 2012.

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  1. Asli

    Asli Well-Known Member

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    I am amazed at TAT commenting that it is not possible to teach without touching, when the student apparently accuses Stretenski of stalking her by sending her hundreds of text messages , kissing her and touching her inappropriately. Stretenski may or may not be guilty, but Tarasova's comments make no sense in this context.

    What business does she have to comment on such an incident from across the ocean anyway? People whose opinions count should be more responsible IMO. The whole establishment against a teenager is not fair, to say the least.
     
  2. _Lola_

    _Lola_ New Member

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    Another thing that Werner has said it will be difficult close and to impossible to prove that Sretensky is not guilty. He also pointed out that Russian coaches, the more experienced ones, usually sign a paper with parents of their students that discusses this issue of touching while teaching. I have no idea what he is talking about, is it a usual thing to sign such a paper. Perhaps, someone who is familiar could clarify.
     
  3. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Yes. But not if the other side is slinging mud at an alleged victim, saying that since the alleged victim is allegedly sexually active, it makes the alleged abuse all right.

    So yes, it is right to slam Iceymom for saying that. This kind of sexist discourse is not acceptable.
     
  4. _Lola_

    _Lola_ New Member

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    Where did you read this? What I can read from Iceymom posts is that she is a part of a local community, this never happend to Sretenski before and local community supports him. There was also a suggestion that the accuser has her own issues which will be revealed in time. I agree that mentioning of menthal conditions and sexual behavior of the girl was unnecessary but where did you see that she said that this makes this abuse all right?

    Sexist discourse is not the only discours of power. This kind of slamming, that you are a part of, is also a discourse of power, in no way different.
     
  5. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    She didn't say it literally, no. But if you are using somebody's 'sexual activity' as an argument against them in a case of alleged sexual abuse/assault, you are basically saying: 'She wanted it/she got what she deserved/etc.'

    Having one person criticise another person is something entirely different to a pattern of discrimination and abuse that is systemic and deeply entrenched in society.

    Unless you keep reacting to it, it is never going to change.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2012
  6. _Lola_

    _Lola_ New Member

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    This.
     
  7. _Lola_

    _Lola_ New Member

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    She answered because she was asked. Her reply mostly concerned unproper touching and that it is not possible to teach without them. She said she used to teach Americans Sasha Cohen, Johnny Weir and never faced such issues (http://radiovesti.ru/articles/2012-09-06/fm/65361).

    It is not suprising that the establishment, or skating world, began to discuss this problem or react. In case if accusation happens, and it can happen to any coach, perhaps, they feel unprotected. Like I said, there was that recent case of Riabov in Russia in which mother of 13 y.o. girl falsly accused a teacher. TAT could comment having the Riabov's case in mind.

    In this particular case, it is also not only a teenager who is involved, but also her father with $5-million bill to Sretenski. I am from non-American context, maybe it is normal for the US but this $5-million bill gives me thoughts about this case that would not be appreciated in this thread.
     
  8. berthesghost

    berthesghost Well-Known Member

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    He's a Russian living in US and now in jail. She's a Russian who used to live in US, using her experience to explain to readers at home a situation that perhaps they are unfamiliar with.

    It's unfortunate that she didn't try to explain the civil case issues, but maybe she doesnt know. It seems that whenever items about skating get translated here and there's a bad reaction, it's always explained that the paper was a trash magazine.

    But she does seem to be spinning, and trying to reassure readers at home that it's nothing serious, all just a silly cultural misunderstanding.
     
  9. OliviaPug

    OliviaPug Well-Known Member

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    Assuming the alleged incident took place at midnight in a hotel room, TAT's comments are irrelevant and misleading. But, I agree that there is a good chance the comments were mistranslated and/or taken out of context ... which is why I suggested earlier in this thread that TAT and Sretenski would have been better served by TAT NOT commenting.

    O-
     
  10. BittyBug

    BittyBug Kiteless

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    I know of coaches in the U.S. (not Russian emigres, either) who, as part of their contracts with their skaters, ask the skater / parent/ guardian to sign a form indicating whether they consent to physical contact as part of the coach's instruction. And consent (or not) to physical contact is just one element of the framework presented in the agreement regarding the student's commitments to his or her training.
     
  11. kwgrant

    kwgrant Banned Member

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    Ive been reading these posts with some interest since I know Genrikh and many of the other coaches at Gardens and many of the folks on this forum. So hopefully what I can add may be of some use. First, Icymom is correct when she talks about Genrikh. His reputation as a premier coach and incredibly skilled choreographer are stellar. I can tell you without a doubt after talking to the accusers family that they were completely blindsided and shocked when they found out that this had happened. I can also tell you that over a year ago, child protective services filed complaints in Laurel and NY which were the initial drivers in this case. The investigation in Laurel led to a finding where sexual assault of a minor was indicated and which has been under appeal by Sretenski and his lawyer. New hearings to either uphold or dismiss this finding are scheduled in October and November.

    The teens in question wanted to work with Genrikh as their principle coach and not just their choreographer. As with most serious dancers, when you get to the point where you are dreaming of a spot on the US team, you need a coach that can take you there. For many teams at Gardens, Genrikh worked with another Anerican coach who served as the head coach. As these teams improved, they inevitably reached the point where more time with Genrikh was sought and a switch of coaching staff was requested. For most, this request was denied and teams either left, as with Bonacorsi and Mager, or quit, as with Friedenberg and Nykiel. In this case, the request was accepted and Genrikh became the head coach. In speaking with the family, the switch to Genrikh was everything they had hoped for. Their trust in him was total, just like Icymom, i would imagine making the betrayal of that trust so much more shocking. The one thing I can say without any doubt is that this person had not the slightest grudge against Genrikh or his family. They talked of him with the highest respect and admiration. There was never anything like a grudge or disappointment as Icymom suggests. In that regard, Icymom is completely mistaken. I think I know why she feels this way. It's because her child has lost their choreographer. Unfortunately in a cut-throat skater world (which really doesn't ever have to be that way) losing a choreographer is far worse for a skate mom that your child losing a skating buddy. Sad, but true.

    One last piece people may find interesting. At the time of the incident, the family filed an ethics violation grievance against Sretenski with the USFS and PSA and told the rink what had happened. The USFS accepted the case but no investigation ensued because of the pending court cases in PG County and NY. I always found this odd because this inaction put the USFA and Gardens at risk for knowing something was brewing and looking the other way. Lots of young girls and boys were placed in the hands of these coaches. I think some investigation would have been better than none. This may be at the heart of the civil suit.
     
  12. MacMadame

    MacMadame Internet Beyotch

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    Arthur Werner is a mud-raker of the worst sort and completely unreliable as a source.

    Iceymom, in this very thread, gave the name and other personal details of the victim. Just because admins deleted the post and gave her the boot doesn't mean people didn't see it and don't have a right to be completely disgusted with her and slam her for it. It has nothing to do with disagreeing with her and everything to do with bad behavior on her part.
     
  13. CoralReef

    CoralReef Member

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    What an awful thing for everyone involved. I don't know the legal process, but is it possible that USFS and PSA were advised by the district attornys already investigating the case? For some reason, I thought I read somewhere that the current USFS president was a lawyer herself, so I wouldn't imagine her doing anything that would put the organization in jeopardy. If the records were sealed or in the case of an accusation not yet brought to trial, would that even show up on a CORI check? If it wouldn't then technically, I think he'd still be in compliance with USFS requirements (ie. passing a CORI check and PSA courses). In these situations, it seems like an impossibility to protect the rights of both the alleged victim and the alleged accused before a judgement is handed down in a court of law. I'm also really surprised by the previous poster who was trying to identify the alleged victim. It probably takes a court order to have the admins of this site turn over the posting details of that person, but if I understand technology correctly, that would give them the physical location of his/her computer. Even if you believe this is a witch hunt, you still have to respect those involved and let it get worked out through the justice system.
     
  14. Cocomo

    Cocomo New Member

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    I will have to disagree with Icymom's and your statement, not everyone feels the same about his reputation as a premier coach and incredibly skilled choreographer. Genrikh was a beautiful ice dancer, but that doesn't always carry over to becoming a great coach or an upstanding member of society.
    When I first heard the "alleged" news my first reaction along with several of the skating circle I know was...can't say I was surprised or shocked!

    Icymom's statement below is disgusting! I'll also add that not all of his former students are providing their good wishes or support.


     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2012
  15. Frau Muller

    Frau Muller President of Dick Button Appreciation Club

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    Oh, so B/M's move to Linichuck/Karponosov in Delaware 2 yrs ago was a step down from staying with Genrich at Gardens? :shuffle:

    Other than that, I agree with most of what you've written, kwgrant.
     
  16. valyrian

    valyrian New Member

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    I may be reading this wrong or misinterpeting this. I hope I am. He was still coaching for a year after the complaint was made? USFSA did not take any action against him even with a serious complaint on file?
     
  17. kwgrant

    kwgrant Banned Member

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    Correct. Apparently the pending court activity started over a year ago trumped even a hint of an investigation by the skating world. Go figure. Sort of like the NCAA and Penn State. Even with Genrikh in jail, USFS is still discussing whether to just investigate the ethics charges. These charges have a much lower burden of proof and not all that much weight one way or the other. But not to even investigate is a strange path to take long after CPS found that the charges were credible and NY has thought enough to issue a warrant for his arrest.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2012
  18. kwgrant

    kwgrant Banned Member

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    For B/M the move was a good one. I was only relaying that neither wanted to move. They just wanted to switch from an American focused approach to a Russian approach with Genrikh. When the coaches denied the request they moved to PA b
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2012
  19. kwgrant

    kwgrant Banned Member

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    I'm glad she was bounced too. Trying to deliberately hurt someone who has already been betrayed is cowardly for sure. My point was that the family liked Genrikh and never saw anything like this coming.

    If you know something I'm sure the police would love to know. Everyone was aware of the locker room humor and the verbal denigration of many of the girls at the rink. Whatever you know that reflects your lack of surprise at this should be presented to the authorities.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2012
  20. kwgrant

    kwgrant Banned Member

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    Agree completely. If you knew her you would know this is something she would do in a heartbeat.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2012
  21. kwgrant

    kwgrant Banned Member

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    I believe the ethical case is completely separate from the CPS or NY cases. In fact, because the charges in the criminal case are sealed, we can be sure that all the information released so far by the press and news media is a combination of hearsay, the CPS finding which is public, and the civil case. No one knows yet what's in the NY case that landed him in jail.
     
  22. 2sk8

    2sk8 Active Member

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    I am involved in ethics investigations for a different profession, and the rules provide that ethics complaints are stayed pending resolution of any ongoing court cases, so this approach is not unheard of.

    OTOH, I am shocked someone actually posted the name of the minor involved here. That, in and of itself, could be the subject of a grievance, at minimum!
     
  23. kwgrant

    kwgrant Banned Member

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    Thanks. This seems to be the prevailing view.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2012
  24. kwgrant

    kwgrant Banned Member

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    Interesting. Have you seen the evidence that's been sealed by NY? You must be very special. It's my understanding that child protective services in PG County and in Lake Placid filed the original complaints, not the skater or their family. I think this was done according to the law because of the alleged victims age.
     
  25. sarakimm

    sarakimm New Member

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    Wow. Is it EVER appropriate for an adult teacher to be sending hundreds of text messages to an underage student? Teachers out there?? Your thoughts? Totally unacceptable in these parts. Not illegal, but unethical. How about this: if your daughter's English teacher asked her to meet him in a hotel room? And texted his love for her? Who would defend that? "NOT HEARSAY, FACT" is right -- but not in the way Icymom meant. A lot of it may be hearsay. But the texts tell the tale. The fact that they were sent is a FACT. Something wrong going on there.
     
  26. TAHbKA

    TAHbKA Well-Known Member

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    You mean in general? Over the years? Well, yes. For example if the lesson time is changed or if the pupil has to bring something special (say, a violin teacher might ask to bring some notes that she forgot to mention during the class). Say, if the kid was studying violin for 10 years I reckon 50 messages a year are not a terribly big deal... ?
     
  27. Frau Muller

    Frau Muller President of Dick Button Appreciation Club

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    I hardly think that this is what sarakimm meant when she asked the question.
     
  28. TAHbKA

    TAHbKA Well-Known Member

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    You ask a silly question you get a silly answer.
     
  29. kwgrant

    kwgrant Banned Member

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    Sometimes you just have to shake your head in disbelief and move on. This is a case where over 500 text messages were sent over a one month period, many of them, according to reports, late in the evening, and all of them following a full day of training. Is there any doubt or any possible scenario that one could make up to rationalize this??? This is at a minimum a clear case of incredibly unprofessional and unethical behavior.
     
  30. nolincl

    nolincl New Member

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    As the President of the Gardens Figure Skating Club, I want to make it clear that none of the people involved were members of the Gardens Figure Skating Club, worked for the Club, or skated on ice the club had furnished. Nor is the club involved in the lawsuit about this matter.


    Chris Nolin Tinkelman
    Gardens Figure Skating Club
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2012
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