Genrich Sretenski Arrested!

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Visaliakid, Sep 5, 2012.

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  1. Iceymom

    Iceymom Banned Member

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    How or why would you assume, that someone does not know his current or past students?? Ice dance is a very small community.
     
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  2. berthesghost

    berthesghost Well-Known Member

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    No, it doesn't. Even if the first part were true, the part in bold is opinion: a conclusion you've drawn for yourself, and thus not fact at all.
     
  3. MorganaLefay

    MorganaLefay Active Member

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    I sincerely hope that Mr. Sretenski is innocent, I loved him as a skater and in meeting him on a couple of occasions, he always acted like a true gentleman. I don't understand why everyone is being so nasty to iceymom--she is just expressing her opinion on the basis of her perception of the situation, what's so wrong with this? There is some bad karma for Russian skaters in Lake Placid--still cannot forget Lutai's incident.
     
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  4. berthesghost

    berthesghost Well-Known Member

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    Because demonizing a victim is wrong. She should hold off on her strong and one sided opinions until all of the facts are known, not jump to conclusions based on predisposed prejudices. Or, go ahead and give those opinions and risk being criticized
     
  5. Nomad

    Nomad Well-Known Member

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    She is insisting that her opinions are facts.
     
  6. Twizzler

    Twizzler Well-Known Member

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    Iceymom, unless you were present when the alleged events occurred, all you have is one side of the story. His, I presume. That does not make it fact.

    Just because no one else has come forward, doesn't necessarily mean this is an isolated incident.

    There was a coach in the early 2000's who ended up getting banned for life by USFS after allegations from 1 skater. I know that there were many more before her- they just chose not to go to the authorities for whatever reason.

    I agree with "innocent until proven guilty". Please don't state things as FACT unless you were there. That is the ONLY way to be 100% sure something did or did not happen.
     
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  7. MacMadame

    MacMadame Cat Lady-in-Training

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    I am well aware of that having been a part of it for over a decade.

    But I didn't say you didn't know some of Sretenski's current and past students. I said unless you had talked to every single one of them, you can't report that they ALL said or did something (or didn't say or do something) as a fact.

    Plus, I am pretty sure you don't know 100% of all his students he has ever had and, even if you did, I am pretty sure you haven't contacted 100% of them to find out their opinions on the matter. I'm also sure that, if a coach had behaved inappropriately to me, that you are the last person I would tell that to as I wouldn't want my private business spread all over the internet and you've demonstrated that you will do just that, if given the chance and if it suits your purposes.
     
  8. Susan M

    Susan M Well-Known Member

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    The pomposity and self-righteousness in this thread defies belief.

    Yes, it is obvs icymom has a personal involvement/relationship/knowledge that seeks to paint Stretensky in the best possible light and cast doubt on his accuser.

    It is equally obvs that too many of the rest of you are overreacting instead of just reading it for what it is - postings of someone with an agenda (who just might really know more than you do about it).

    Yes, coaches and others in authority have sometimes abused their students. Yes, there have also been children (and adults) who made up BS to get someone in trouble who turned out to be totally innocent.

    Honestly, none of the rest of us here knows anything about it, certainly not enough to have any opinion one way or the other, so get off your sanctimonious and entirely theoretical high horses.

    When functioning in total ignorance, neutrality is the only sensible course.
     
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  9. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

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    Associated Press article today: http://www.washingtonpost.com/sport...b194e6-f7a0-11e1-a93b-7185e3f88849_story.html
     
  10. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    IMHO it's not "overreacting" to respond to someone making very opinionated allegations about a highly sensitive subject, and presenting those allegations as informed fact.
     
  11. triple_toe

    triple_toe Well-Known Member

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    Iceymom's kid probably works or has worked with Sretenski in the past. I've no doubt that Iceymom is speaking the truth when she says neither she, nor anyone she knows of, has experienced anything untoward from Sretenski. So when allegations like this come about it's only natural that she would want to jump to his defence. Yes, she wasn't present at the actual incident but if she knows him well enough to think he wouldn't do something like this she should be able to say so. She's probably stressed about this and angry at the allegations so I think she isn't expressing herself as calmly as she could, which is perfectly natural. Not right but understandable.

    None of this changes whether the allegations are true or not. I hope they're not but we just don't know. All I want to say is that if someone I knew personally was accused of something like this and I was convinced they were innocent, I might not be able to express myself with grace either. This is a really touchy subject (no pun intended :shuffle:) and it's easy for both sides to get heated.

    I for one am glad that Iceymom has come forward as something of a character witness defending Sretenski here. It can't be easy. I like to think the best of my favourite skaters so when nasty rumours come about I like to hope they aren't true for my own selfish fandom. At least from Iceymom's posts he appears not to be a total sleazeball. If he's guilty, I hope he is punished but I also really hope that he is innocent.
     
  12. ioana

    ioana Well-Known Member

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    The bolded part of your post is the problem. It's one thing to express support for someone you worked with (or whatever the case might be) and talk about your good experience dealing with the man. And then say something along the lines of hopefully we can all reserve judgment on this until all the facts are known. On the other hand, bringing up problems and issues of the alleged victim only makes you look like you have an axe to grind.

    No one said she shouldn't chime in. In fact I agree it's good to hear from other skaters or their parents. Presenting that opinion as fact (while belittling the skater who came forward) is the issue here...Hopefully you're right and this is just a case of posting while being too emotional.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2012
  13. Capella

    Capella Guest

    Given that the majority of skaters who compete at the Lake Placid Ice Dance Championships (which I'm assuming is the event, since there was no JGP last year) are *minors* and that according to the Associate Press article Sylvia linked to above said the charges are sealed, I would be extra careful about mentioning the accuser or identifying details.
     
  14. liv

    liv Well-Known Member

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    Sometimes victims aren't really victims either.

    I had a work placement at a school with children/teens with a variety of disabilities and was warned never to be alone with one teenaged student because she had a history of making up stories about people who worked there, irregardless of gender. No charges were ever laid, no evidence of wrongdoing ever came up, and staff knew everything to be false (and this school has a tremendous reputation), but it caused everyone who worked there a lot of trauma because of the investigations and the nature of the allegations and they never knew when she would make up something else because she chose to remain at the school. Every newcomer had to be warned in order to protect themselves. I"m just saying that sometimes there are cases where everyone does know that the accuser is making things up and it is because of her own issues. It has no other connection to this case.

    As for this case, it's upsetting to hear of any allegations of this type, and i hope that whatever happened is properly investigated and the truth comes out, whatever it is.
     
  15. pollyanna

    pollyanna playing the Glad Game

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    I agree with ioana that the problem with iceymom's posts was not that she defended Sretenski, but that she made unfounded insinuations against the alleged victim. Iceymom also revealed the gender of the alleged victim which was all kinds of wrong. Obviously the authorities want this information sealed for now. See the bolded parts of her posts below:

    I have admired and respected Sretenski for years, and I hope he is innocent, but I do not think we should make any assumptions about his accuser.
     
  16. triple_toe

    triple_toe Well-Known Member

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    No I totally agree that Iceymom shouldn't have started slinging mud at the victim. I'm just saying I understand if she's lashing out because she's angry about the accusations and/or knows the victim. That said, she's not doing herself or Sretenski any favours by it. I hope she comes back to the thread because she's clearly got an insider's perspective, but I hope she does so in a less antagonistic manner.
     
  17. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    Or maybe she's Sretenski's wife. Or some anonymous crackpot posting on the Internet. :shuffle:
     
  18. TAHbKA

    TAHbKA Well-Known Member

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    wrong thread
     
  19. skfan

    skfan Member

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    insider perspective on how sretenski treats her and her kid, maybe. how does she know how he treats everyone else? is she with sretenski 24/7?

    of course it's upsetting to hear that someone you trust has been accused of something vile. but to conclude that you know enough to declare sretenski wrongly accused... to insinuate that the accuser will get what's coming to 'her'... when at this moment the identity/gender of the accuser hasn't even been revealed?
     
  20. Prancer

    Prancer Jawwalking Staff Member

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    Or someone who absolutely should not be posting about this on an internet discussion board.
     
  21. Frau Muller

    Frau Muller President of Dick Button Appreciation Club

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    Just saw updated report on the local NBC4 tv station (approx 5:45AM, EST):

    Sretenski's extradition hearing was delayed til today.

    NBC4 obtained a complete copy of the Civil Lawsuit document in Prince George's County: The alleged incident happened in Sretenski's hotel room in Lake Placid in August 2011. Prior to the incident, Sretenski sent the victim over 500 text messages professing his passion and asking for meeting.

    Victim's attorney, Mr. Zambri, was briefly interviewed on-camera, repeating that he has all of the text messages and other evidence to prove the charges.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2012
  22. Frau Muller

    Frau Muller President of Dick Button Appreciation Club

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    An additional report on NBC4 at 6:35AM, with a bit more info:

    Salvatore Zambri, the victim's attorney, states that his client, the alleged victim, is a 16-yr-old female student of Sretenski at the Gardens ice arena in Laurel, MD. She was kissed and "fondled in the chest" after the defendant led her to his hotel room in Lake Placid...NBC4's camera scanned a page of text from the Civil Lawsuit document, including those words. [The page of text shown on camera also showed the beginning of a paragraph "...the kissing continued after Lake Placid, in Laurel..." but the reporter did not speak those words, as with the above.]

    The rest of the brief report was the same as shown earlier (my previous post).

    p.s. - My own thoughts: Not to say that it is not awful...but if kissing and fondling of the chest is what happened, I don't know how yesterday's information from Sretenski's attorney -- that the coach has been charged with sexual assault in the 1st and 3rd degrees + 'forcible touching' -- jibes with this. I thought that 1st degree was rape/penetration. (???) Maybe the victim is withdrawing some of the original allegations? Hard to tell.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2012
  23. skatemommy

    skatemommy Well-Known Member

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    why, why why do professionals and otherwise carry on with texting? It is recorded FOREVER. See former Detroit mayor Kwame Kilpatrick. Not laying blame or guilt...just that texts can be damning whether they are innocent or not. Heck, not using the right emoticon on FSU can generate a 5 page debate.
     
  24. Asli

    Asli Well-Known Member

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    Surely we should be glad that thanks to text messages there is often more evidence rather than less? The interpretation of evidence is another issue, but how can it be better to have less evidence to interpret?

    As for text messages being innocent, if there are indeed 500 of them, even if a few are ambiguous, hopefully the whole 500 together will give a correct picture.
     
  25. GarrAarghHrumph

    GarrAarghHrumph I can kill you with my brain

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    No, you've misinterpreted the NY legal system re: what's first degree and etc.

    In NY State as I understand it, sexual abuse in the first degree is sexual contact (includes above the clothing) by force or threat of force, or when the individual is incapable of consenting due to mental deficiency, or when the individual is below age 17.

    In the third degree, it is sexual contact (including above the clothing) when one person is over age 21 and the other is less than 17 years old.

    Those are felonies.

    Forcible touching is when someone touches the body of someone else with the intention of, basically, either degrading that person or getting his own rocks off. (Obviously, that's not legal speak.)

    That's a misdemeanor.

    So it seems the state is going after him based on the fact that he touched without consent, and because she is underage. But certainly, others who are more in the know on the NY State legal system should chime in and correct me if I got anything wrong.

    And again; these are charges, not convictions.
     
  26. Frau Muller

    Frau Muller President of Dick Button Appreciation Club

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    Thanks, GAH. So it jibes with what this morning's TV report and the court document state. It's still terrible, no matter what - above clothing, below clothing, etc.
     
  27. berthesghost

    berthesghost Well-Known Member

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    True, although I do believe that false accusations do more harm to true victims than they do to the falsely accused. Iceymom's posts are typical. She immediately goes on the offense, not just defending the coach but trashing the student. Totally uncalled for.

    Once my sil confided in my sister that she thought my brother was cheating. Both my sisters and my mom got on the blower and felt the need to tell everyone they knew that my poor poor brother couldn't even go on a buisness trip without his crazy bitch of a wife trashing his good name. In this case, he was indeed off bumping uglies with a floozie, that was his "business", but that's beside the point. Even if he was innocent, there was no need for my brother's "protectors" to use this incident as one more excuse to trash talk a woman they disliked.

    How are true victims suppose to feel comfortable going public if people continue to vilify any accuser even before they know if the accusations are true or not?
     
  28. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    It might be "terrible, no matter what", but at this point it is all ALLEGED because none of the charges have been proven in court and no one has been convicted of anything. So please, anyone who is relaying reports from other sources, make this clear when you are posting.
     
  29. Frau Muller

    Frau Muller President of Dick Button Appreciation Club

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    I and many others contributing to this thread are 'on record' having written the word 'alleged' a gazillion times. I don't think that we need to over-allege in every single sentence, overedge. Point taken, nonetheless. :)
     
  30. skatesindreams

    skatesindreams Well-Known Member

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    In the US, someone is presumed innocent, until proven guilty.
    We should remember that, before we assume that the allegations are true.
     
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