Gao the same skater as Kim essentialy, why cant she do better?

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by butyrskafanatic, Jun 3, 2013.

  1. butyrskafanatic

    butyrskafanatic Member

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    When I look at Christina Gao the skater she reminds me most of is Yu Na Kim. Yeah I know she is probably not quite as good as Kim but they are essentialy the same skater in many ways. Both have very easy and fluid jumps, nice but not great spins, strong basic skating skills, and quiet and subtle presentation. Gao I find has nicer positions, although Kim has bigger jumps. Gao's triple flip-triple toe was the best in the World when she was doing it though, and even better than Kim's who had the 2nd best one in the World. Considering Kim isnt good in triple loop or triple salchow one could argue the only jumps Kim did better than Gao were the triple lutz and maybe the double axel, and I guess the double axel-triple toe combo which Kim no longer does just like Gao no loner does the triple flip-triple toe. So if Kim is able to dominate and win all these World and Olympic Golds why cant Gao do better than 5th in the U.S all these years, even when she skates well, and even back when she had the triple flip-triple toe. It seems she is being very undermarked.
     
  2. kwanatic

    kwanatic Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I can't even...no. Just no. Uh-uh, not good.

    You have just opened the door for people needlessly defend Yu-Na by trashing Christina...

    Not a good topic.
     
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  3. butyrskafanatic

    butyrskafanatic Member

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    Well I find them very similar. I cant help what others think but it is my opinion. I concede Yu Na is still better, but their qualities and weakneses are alot alike. I am not saying she deserves World and Olympic Golds like Kim but she deserves alot more than 5th place at Nationals each year. This year especialy she was so robbed and I was majorly pissed.
     
  4. karlon

    karlon New Member

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    Wow, christina gao is newly entered in kim's rivals list in FSU?


    Anyway about your post...
    Not agree with almost, all you said
    But in performance, Gao's style looks similar with kim a bit

    Maybe because she was training with kim in the past when she was junior skater, and her idol is kim, I think she is influenced from kim or imitated her a bit...
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2013
  5. Clay

    Clay Active Member

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    .... :shuffle: cant believe Im saying this, but I don't think this topic is all that crazy. :shuffle:

    Having not seen them live, it's difficult to judge. I see what the OP is saying though. Gao rounds her shoulders a bit and I haven't analyzed her spins either. Still, this isn't such a crazy comparison.
     
  6. butyrskafanatic

    butyrskafanatic Member

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    I find she has the same quiet elegance as Kim's skating and she also hits prettier postions and has nicer posture than Kim whose only weakness is in that area. She isnt quite as musical and expresive, but she still is some, just not as pronounced. Like Kim she is great in toe jumps and weaker in edge ones. Like I said some of her signature jumps were even better than Kim's once like the triple flip-triple toe where hers was the best in the World, even over Kim's who was better than everyone else in the World. She needs that combo back to make the Olympics or win a U.S title I guess, as the U.S judges seem to require her to skate 60% better than everyone else to be noticed.
     
  7. blue_idealist

    blue_idealist Well-Known Member

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    They are kind of similar, but Gao sometimes looks stiff while she's skating while Yu-Na always looks fluid. I think Yu-Na presents herself a bit better on the ice too.
     
  8. karlon

    karlon New Member

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    Just a bit? I like her but.... sigh..
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2013
  9. FunnyBut

    FunnyBut Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you that Gao is somewhat similar to Kim, she has the natural speed, the difficult 3-3, big flowy jumps and she has a similar build. Gold is a bit similar to both of them too. Some things Gao can work on that YNK already has:

    1. 2Axel: Used to be a disaster for Gao, still not a good jump for her. Yuna scores monstrously on 2A/combos with big GOE.
    2. Carriage: she really does need to work on her shoulders
    3. Harder jump layout - bring back 3F-3T in both SP and LP , that would allow her to bring back 2A-3T in LP too.
    4. Higher spin levels (she was a rather weak spinner until moving to Boston, still not quite strong enough).

    She doesn't have the overall performance level or consistency of Yuna either ( who does?) but she has improved both remarkably this season.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2013
  10. kwanatic

    kwanatic Well-Known Member

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    Maybe I was too quick to judge the title...perhaps a better heading for this thread would have been "Gao's Similarities to Kim" instead of saying that the two are essentially the same skater b/c they most definitely are not. Similarities, they have a few...but they aren't nearly the same skater.

    The similarity I used to see in Christina and Yu-Na was back when both were with Orser. Christina's combination jump had the same attack, speed and coverage that Yu-Na's did which was excellent. However, since her growth spurt I'm not sure if that's a combination Christina can still execute. We haven't seen it in a while.

    Yu-Na is a very powerful skater when it comes to speed and leaving an impact on the ice which meshes well with her elegance and makes her stand out. She's not a flashy performer; her style is subtle but she still delivers it in a way that captures you and draws you in. Christina has that elegance (especially since last season) however she greatly lacks power and impact which, unfortunately, makes it easy for the judges to overlook her. She lacks the fire and strength that Yu-Na has when she performs and, IMO, that's what holds her back.

    Christina has a few similarities to Yu-Na but they are more different than alike. Christina reminds me more of Alissa to be honest especially when it comes to their personality on the ice. Alissa has that elegance and softness to her but she lacks attack/fire/strength. Fortunately for Alissa the USFSA loves her which made it easier for her to get by. Christina doesn't get that kind of attention and she won't get it until she forces those judges to notice her.
     
  11. AxelAnnie

    AxelAnnie Well-Known Member

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    Gosh, it never would have occurred to me to compare those two. I think Christina is lovely (not that Kim is not), but when I see Christina the first skater that always comes to my mind is Lu Chen. Chen and Gao have an inner glow that I find utterly mesmerizing. Alissa is a good comparison, too. All three paint a story on the ice every time they skate.
     
  12. chanunderrated

    chanunderrated Member

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    Gao's triple flip-triple toe combination was not ever better than Yu Na's. Yes it was very good but nobody did that combination or the triple lutz-triple toe better than Yu Na. Yu Na should include both those combinations in her long program, I wonder why she doesnt unless the rule doesnt allow. Anyway none of Gao's jumps should be compared to Yu Na. Gao overall is average in jump GOE, even some of her other U.S skaters like Wagner and prime Nagasu of a few years ago who arent great jumpers get more GOE on their clean jumps than her often. Kim is the Queen of jump GOE, no current skater has ever bested her on average GOE of their clean jumps in a competition ever I dont think, not even other strong jumpers like Ando, Kostner, or Rochette.

    Kim is also the queen of PCS in the judges eyes. She almost always gets the highest, but on rare occasion only 2nd highest at a World event but that is rare. Gao in PCS is often like 7th in the U.S.

    Kim is the greatest ever and the judges see Gao as an ok skater who is nowhere near the caliber of even the supposably unremarkable Rachel Flatt who in her prime was always 1st and 2nd in the U.S while Gao cant even podium in the U.S. So basically there seems evidence she isnt even anywhere near as talented as prime Flatt. The judges sent her a harsh message at Nationals this year where she was the only skater in the whole event to do 2 clean programs and ended up only 5th. Fans complained Nagasu in 7th was too low, which means fans think a slightly off Nagasu with 3 or 4 mistakes should beat a clean Gao, which is a further slap in the fan to how she is viewed. This years Nationals already was perhaps the death knall to her career, as she seemed to have the momentum and a good chance to get one of those 2 World team spots and judges (and fans too as my Nagasu example proves) still view her as only a mid pack top 10 skater no closer to making World team; even at a poorly skated Nationals where Wagner, Gao and Zawadzki all had pooor competitions and she skated lights out.
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2013
  13. blue_idealist

    blue_idealist Well-Known Member

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    For some reason, Gao always reminds me of Shizuka. I think it's because she is a good skater and often clean and powerful, but just not that.. interesting. It might be something to do with the tall, leggy look too.
     
  14. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Conclusion I guess would then be Gao is a mix of alot of recent great Asian skating Champions, but just not nearly as good as any of them, despite the various similarities in style and characteristics to a few.
     
  15. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    LOL
    How to start a thread to create a new group of Gao haters... ;)
     
  16. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    I think the same thing to myself all the time. Yuna has more speed and bigger jumps, but Christina's speed and jump size are certainly adequate. Yuna has the pretty camel spin and I-spin whereas Christina's spins, though they have gotten better, still don't incorporate either a donut or I position. They are similar in build too, although Kim is a bit bow-legged whereas Christina is more knock-kneed, which combined with her rounded shoulders is often why she can still appear ungainly at times even though she has grown into her adult figure. Yuna has always had a very nice back and relaxed shoulders which is why I think she always seems elegant. Christina can be elegant too, but it comes and goes with her whereas for Yuna it's always there.

    Anyways, as for 5th place at Nationals for forever and ever, my outlook is this:
    2010 - great finish for a 15 year old in her senior debut, and would have been pewter had Sasha not competed.

    2011 - a little disappointing considering how strongly she started her season off and the technical strides she made putting the 3f-3t in both her programs, but she was also in the midst of a major growth spurt and very obviously peaked too early that season, had she shown that early season form at Nationals, I think she could have been 4th, though 3rd was unlikely to happen. I thought she could have been marked higher in the FS though and should have beat Agnes in that portion at least.

    2012 - actually a good placement considering her hip injury over the summer and lackluster and nightmarish showings on the GP that fall, she missed the 3-3 in the SP and was marked a bit conservatively, then in the FS I thought she did very well and was a bit undermarked, however I think 5th was really the right placement as Zhang was very good in her comeback and Agnes did have that huge lead from her great SP even if the FS was not so hot.

    2013 - she skated well though not perfect, but was hosed on a major scale. Gracie got a break for bombing the SP, and Ashley for bombing the FS, and Agnes for making serious errors in both programs, Courtney's PCS were very generous, Christina got none of the same breaks as these girls and her PCS were stingy for Nationals standards to boot. I can understand the 5th place in the SP because Mirai was quite good and Courtney was too and her weaknesses aren't as visible in the SP, and even Agnes with that great combo, even with the fall, I could see being a little ahead of Christina (but definitely not 7 points), but in the FS I would have had Christina 2nd honestly - she was better than Ashley and Courtney for sure, way more than 3 points better than Agnes and 1 point better than Siraj with those spindly jumps, and should not have been marked 15 points below deer-in-the-headlights jumpclinic Gracie given the clean, polished skate Christina put out. She was robbed of 3rd and maybe even 2nd and I hope the USFS has gotten a wakeup call and will mark her properly this time around.
     
  17. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    I just read the OP's first two sentences and nothing else as yet. The reason: I just have to say before I read any further that in many ways, Christina Gao is a more aesthetically pleasing skater in terms of gorgeous lines and positions (particularly in her layback spins vs Yu Na, who frankly has ugly spin positions).

    I think both Yu Na and Christina could be more expressive on the ice, although once again, I feel that Christina exhibits a bit more emotion and perhaps she will improve further with maturity. In Yu Na's case, I feel that she has a very reserved personality which makes expressing herself freely on the ice somewhat difficult.

    So in fact, Yu Na is not "as good" as Christina in some respects. IMO, where Yu Na does tower over Christina is in nearly perfect technique on jumps. Yu Na was like a machine at London Worlds in terms of technical brilliance. And yes there was some deep emotion under the surface that appeared to be driving Yu Na, but for me practically none of it spilled over into her performance. It was like she had a job to do and she was simply fiercely determined to get it done and freakin' NADA was going to stop her. That was Yu Na's attitude, which Christina could use some of in her approach to competing. But again, they both could benefit from projecting more to the audience.
     
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  18. munow

    munow New Member

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    Not everyone has to perform in the same way Michelle Kwan does. Kim is great as she is.
     
  19. TripleWallie

    TripleWallie New Member

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    Yuna's spin positions are quite fine apart from her leg extension/toe-point on the layback. Her camel spins, sit spins, I-spins and non-basic positions are very good. There's more to a layback--in particular the back arch--than the legs.:rolleyes:
     
  20. munow

    munow New Member

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    Kim has the best basic camel in the current field.
     
  21. BmcC102

    BmcC102 Active Member

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    Barf. I am SO sick of hearing this.
     
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  22. BmcC102

    BmcC102 Active Member

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    Last edited: Jun 5, 2013
  23. karlon

    karlon New Member

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    i'm tired of everything! Comparing threads like who is the best ever or who is better between 00 vs kim ? how many of her rivals? kwan witt ando sotnikova osmond.. blahblah..
    They were made by others' fans, for only fun or support their favorites.. usually her fans don't make. and i think not only me, many her fans are not glad to such kind of threads...
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2013
  24. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    Gao is fine as she is. But to contend near the top, she needs a little more speed, bigger elements, MUCH MORE attack and natural expressiveness. Hopefully her coaches can work on these qualities along with the 3/3 and 2axel.

    Gao does remind me of a early Kim with her lyricism (the Lark Ascending days...).
     
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  25. lakewood

    lakewood New Member

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    Yeah...., well... she drew the biggest applause from the audience.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2013
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  26. sk8ingcoach

    sk8ingcoach Active Member

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    The only similarity i see between the two is they have a similar body shape and are both Asain. THATS IT

    To say that Gao 3F+3T is the best is ridiculous. Gao's components are extremely weak without comparing to Yuna. Gao is very inconsistent. She has an aweful 2A that is worse than caroline zhang.
     
  27. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    Can I start a new one :

    Poykio the same skater as Kwan essentialy, why didnt she do better?
     
  28. orbitz

    orbitz Well-Known Member

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    Because Poykio was not an American. :p
     
  29. FunnyBut

    FunnyBut Well-Known Member

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    Hicks is essentially the same skater as Slutskaya, why isn't she a champion yet?
     
  30. aliceanne

    aliceanne Well-Known Member

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    Identity theft for skaters? If the judges are against you, steal the identity of someone who looks similar and start over?