Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by tkaug, Nov 7, 2012.
Nakano is the best spinner Japan has ever produced.
This thread inspired me to watch a slew of Japanese skating videos, and rewatching some of Suguri's best routines reminded me of why I loved her back in the day. When she was on and in her prime, she knew how to perform and was absolutely committed to her choreography.
It's a shame what the Code in Torino made Fumie do to her spins, because I think she gave the best performance of the night in the SP. Not saying she should have placed higher as her technical elements weren't nearly as strong as the top 3, but her performance, interpretation, and execution were really up there.
OT, but this is the first time I've seen Hanae Yokoya and is it me or is her 1996 Worlds LP really good?
aw ... fumie suguri. I rooted for her especially past 2006. When she finally made the worlds in 2009 (after failing in 2007 and 2008) I thought it was a good way to end her career, but obviously she decided to continue indefinitely ... even bowing out in 2010 when she failed to make the Olympic team wouldn't have been embarrassing (her free skate at the pre-Olympics Nationals wasn't great, but she fought and fought ... remember her landing a triple-flip, double-toe-double loop at the end of the programme which I never saw from her and which showed her fighting spirit.
interestingly, wikipedia says that Michelle Kwan taught her the triple lutz in 1994! when little fumie attended the practice rink at the World Championships.
And obviously Sasha Cohen borrowed the tights from Suguri in 2002.
She seems to be quite friendly with the Americans (and her spoken English ain't bad at all, from what I have heard from interviews). But I wonder if the same can be said about her relationship with other Japanese skaters
With all due respect, what WAS her problem? She seemed to have good flow, but she was never over her body. She had good flow, but she was brittle and not with it on the ice. Never could straighten her knee or ankle. She missed the ballet class that you actually need to do something with your body before you give those dramatic bows. Her coaches robbed her IMO. She landed many jumps, but the sum of the whole was less than the parts. She and Yoshie Onda must have had the same coaches. There is more to just skating fast and landing jumps.
Look up her 1995 Worlds LP - it's even better.
She made some silly mistake in the SP, falling on the triple salchow IIRC, and ended up 10th overall.
are you kidding?
to fresh up your memories , a free program with 2f2t, sal<< and a wobbly 2a2t plus messy spins couldn´t be in any means compared to shizukas free skate. and even sasha with 3s3tseq and a much more complex program was obviously superior than suguri.
suguris free skate was absolute easily built, the choreography and transitions weren´t great at all. and 6.0 system has gone, so it´s not all about landing the jumps (which weren´t as good either, as i mentioned before)
Watching Arakawa crowned while herself missing the podium must have been pretty hard to swallow for her, after having had an overall better international career up to that point except for the Arakawa’s WC win. She even shunned being on the same flight back to Japan with the rest of the team, with the Japanese media waiting at the airport to greet their only OGM of the Turin games. She might have felt that there’s something left to prove yet – her longevity, love of skating, whatever it was. I’d say she was respectably successful at it, making GP podiums and GPF in the following seasons, although since then it’s become painful to watch.
Agreed on both counts. I loved Fumie in her prime and she had some excellent programs especially in 2002 with Ave Maria and Moonlight Sonata - also 2005 with Pink Panther/Carmen (damn that fall on the lutz in the 2005 Worlds SP). It's a crying shame how weak and generic 2006 was in comparison.
And Hanae was indeed great, here's another skate from 1995 NHK where she placed second - wonderful smile!
I remember asking what happened to her after - puberty was the answer IIRC unfortunately.
I remember a video after her 2006-7 Nationals Gala performance that showed a crowd of skaters singing happy birthday to her and presenting her with a cake. (Mao was in there somewhere, iirc.) So she must have had some Japanese skaters she got along with.
Out of the top four, she actually had the highest GOEs on the jumps, I think. Her footwork was excellent also. The spin levels and the spiral sequence were not as good, but she was really hosed on the PCS.
Shizuka was totally Ms. Popular, which is ironic since she was known to be reserved and cold while Fumie was considered the expressive performer. All the Japanese girls (except Fumie ) seem to like and respect Shizuka, it appears. She seems like the type of person who if you are on her good side, she's your BFF but if you are on her bad side...they don't call her Divakawa for nothing.
I get the feeling it was probably the ones around her age (Yoshie and Shizuka) she didn't get along with. But I do remember reading that she scolded a young Miki for not paying attention on practice ice when Fumie was rising up the ranks and Miki was a kid. Which reminds me, wasn't it Fumie who was accused of intentionally "impeding" Yuna during practice sessions? Man, who would have thought after all these years that Fumie Suguri will provide so much
^ I heard that Miki said that Fumie just asked her to stop talking right during a competition because she was interrupting Fumie's concentration. Miki said she learned a lot from Fumie, and maybe Fumie was just teaching her proper competition etiquette.
As for Fumie intentionally getting in the way of Yuna, which Japanese skater hasn't been accused of messing with Yu Na Kim?
The men and possibly Shizuka since she's the only Japanese skater she has invited to perform in her shows recently. See, even Yuna Kim is friends with Queen Bee Shizuka!
During one of the US GP broadcasts in 2001 or 2002 one of the commentators implied that Fumie annoyed the other Japanese skaters by showing up to competitions with a large entourage.
It is known that Fumie would often annoy her teammates(Shizuka, Yukari, Miki) when they were together with Nobuo Sato.
In 2006-2007 season after Yukari made the world team and Fumie didn't,
Fumie got Nobuo mad and he kicked her out of the rink for a while, then she left him later.
I think that was the moment when she started to make everything in a wrong way.
What was Fumie's best chance of winning a World title, if she even had one? 2002, 2003, 2004, 2006? Obviously beating Slutskaya in 2005 in Russia was never ever going to happen so I didnt even mention that, actually beating a superb Kwan in the U.S in 2003 was probably also never either so scratch that too. Any of the remaining 3.
Also what was her better chance of an Olympic medal, 2002 or 2006, or did she even have one at all in hindsight, especialy as she skated very well at both and still didnt medal in really messy dissapointing events both times.
Well, one can argue she was underscored in 2002. She had consistently beaten Cohen all season while they did comparable performances then in SLC, Sasha got marks she had never gotten before. Then a month later, Fumie beat Sasha again. Had things worked out differently, Fumie could have gotten a medal. I'd venture to say that Fumie was underscored at 2001 Worlds as well.
As for 2006, again, I think she was slightly underscored in the SP in PCS, but not sure if that would've made the difference overall. Fumie wasn't the best skater, but you can't deny she had really respectable results coming into both games. She can't control how the judges would have scored the other skaters. Shizuka was all over the place in the 2004-2005 season and in the beginning of the 2005-2006 season.
The problem with Fumie is that one could say her and Sasha started out in an equal playing field in 2002 and made up for what the other skater lacked. The problem was that Sasha improved her deficiencies while Fumie didn't, though her choreography and performance level did go up by 2006.
2006 Worlds. Cohen was inconsistent (and didn't even want to be there), Meissner wasn't that great either, Rochette was still all nerves, no Arakawa or Slutskaya.
I agree, 2006 Worlds. But I'm glad that Meissner had her moment as World Champion. Poor Fumie was just a journey-woman. I never got her skating. She always seemed off on her crossovers and basic skating. Sure she had good flow, but there was just something strange about the way she moved across the ice, plus her inability to straighten the legs and ankles. Fumie was spoiled by JSF for years, when Divakawa was clearly the star.
Suguri & Arakawa battled for one Olympic spot in both 1998 and 2002 (Onda had locked in the other one in 2002 due to qualifying for GPF that season), and they each got to go once. I guess that's the main source of their rivalry. Suguri was Japan's rep at Worlds in 1997 and 1999 but lost out to Arakawa in 1998. Arakawa skated very well at the 2001 GPs and just narrowly missed making GPF but it was Suguri who won Nationals and got to go to SLC.
At major competitions, their battle outcome was 2:2, with Arakawa beating Suguri at 2004 Worlds and 2006 Olympics and Suguri beating Arakawa at 2003 and 2005 Worlds. If counting Jr Worlds and 4CCs and Nationals I think Suguri comes out ahead, but obviously Arakawa won the two that really mattered.
Onda was very lucky to have got the automatic Olympic berth due to qualifying for the GPF. She faced exceptionally weak fields to came 2nd in her GP events, facing none of the top American or Russian ladies (except Maria B in one of her events), who were dominant at the time. Arakawa had the misfortune to face Kwan/Cohen/Hughes/Volchkova at Skate America and Cohen/Hughes/Maria B/Volchkova at Lalique. At the time, I felt terrible for Arakawa, really thinking that might be the end of her career.
One would have thought that would have convinced the JSF to scrap the idea of using the GPF to determine the Olympic qualifier, since so much of it is based on luck of the draw.
I find it odd that they scrapped it for the next Olympics in 2006 but used the GPF again in 2010 to determine one of the spots.
If they used the highest placing Japanese in GPF system in 2006, Nakano would have gone to Torino, which she deserved anyway.
Well I am sure the JSF used whichever system that could justify them to send whoever skater they wanted. Let's face it. For Turino, Ando placed top 6 at the previous 2 Worlds, made GPF twice and won Jr Worlds and a couple of Nationals. Nakano had a promising season but that was it - she never even made Worlds. The choice was clear. Ando was the more possible medal contender.
^ Thank goodness they didn't use that rationale for 2010, otherwise we wouldn't have been able to see Suzuki in Vancouver.
Luck of the draw is exactly right. Remember, Butyrskaya and Slutskaya were both scheduled to compete at NHK that season. Butyrskaya withdrew right before the competition to have her emergency surgery, and I forget why Slutskaya was out. Angela Nikodinov was looking like she'd easily qualify for the Final until that happened, but the withdrawals allowed Malinina (who was only 6th? I think in her first event) to climb all the way up and qualify with her win, along with Onda with her silver. I think the ordinals were all over the place for the top 4 in the free skate.
Arakawa, on the other hand, was making a huge name for herself with her events. I remember at Skate America (a competition with both Kwan and Hughes), she was the only woman to get standing ovations in both programs. She had a 6(?)-triple free skate there, and then followed that with a 7-triple free skate at Lalique, including a triple toe-triple toe at the very end of her program. I am not sure what happened in the short there, but she was only to climb up to 6th or something. People were definitely taking note of her and her drastic improvement at that point.
Well in 2010 they were clearly counting on Asada and Ando and neither Nakano nor Suzuki were going to medal anyway. So they just let Nationals decide... I would send them both and leave Ando home if it were up to me.
if they would have just let nationals decide, ando would have stayed at home.
ando came in 4th at nationals behind asada 1st, suzuli 2nd and nakano 3rd.
ando ensured her tickets to olympics with 2 grand prix wins, gpf 2nd place (leading kim after the short) and surely her worlds bronze the year before.
i´m an ando fan but to be honest, she deserved that ticket for this season.
but i think you´re right in japanse strange ways of picking skaters.
by the way. 2005/06 they didn´t pull ando just over nakano who came in 5th at nationals. yoshie onda came in 4th, just one point behind arakawa and surely in front of nakano. if someone should have got andos spot, then onda.
otherwise we wouldn´t have seen andos best short program ever (not in jumping content, program itself)
That short program was good in the Fall at Cup of Russia, but it was sloppy and looked unfinished for some reason in Torino. I'd rather she not perform it at all in Torino so people could just remember what it looked like earlier.
Poor Fumie - not only did she not qualify for Nationals - she didn't qualify to remain in this thread!
Well by that logic in 2006 they were clearly counting on Arakawa and Suguri and neither of Ando (at that point of her career) or Nakano was going to medal anyway. So they should have just let Nationals decide that year too.
Poor Fumie... She's like the Tonia Kwiatkowski of the JSF. ls Kwiatkowski still competing too and hoping to go to the Olympics? Might as well. Your dreams are only as big as your delusions, a very wise person once told me. She's like what, 45?, and still hoping for Olympic gold? Back in the day she'd be quietly hospitalized and family would say she's 'resting'. Poor poor Fumie. And you know Divakawa loves it all as she goes from one ciggy to the next. haha. Can't you just see Diva saying,
"Thank you Fumie for bringing me my bath water, but you need to leave now. And stop staring, it's creeping me out. You are now excused."
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