Fumie Suguri failed to qualify for Japanese Nationals again

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by tkaug, Nov 7, 2012.

  1. FunnyBut

    FunnyBut Well-Known Member

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    I always thought there was some justification for giving Fumie a bronze (or even silver) in the Turino games. Slutskaya skated stiff and scared until she fell on the 3loop, and by then half her program was over (even her first 2 jump elements had wonky landings). I'll admit, she wasn't my fav and I really didn't think she ever pulled off the 'sexy latina', even when she was skating well. Cohen off course botched her 1st two jumping passes as well.

    Fumie skated essentially clean and sold her programs, landed similar content to Shizuka. Yet her countryman and rival, who had already usurped her as the #1 Japanese lady, now would go home with a gold medal while she was medaless. I wonder if Fumie had taken home a medal, would she have been satisfied with her career and retired? We probably wouldn't have this thread six years later.

    Maybe I'm just trying to tie the major Turino thread drift back to Fumie. :)
  2. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    :lol: Thanks Funnybut. I would have given her the silver.
  3. dawnie

    dawnie Active Member

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    Lighten up, it was a joke. :rolleyes:


    Suguri's skate wasn't anything special even though she appeared clean. That Rach program was :blah: and she cheated a triple toe, IIRC. I do think her Japanese Nationals LP that year would have knocked Slutskaya off the podium for sure.
  4. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Not for me. I could see some justification in giving Fumie 3rd, or even maybe 2nd (although IMO not 2nd) in the LP. However she was rightfully well back of Slutskaya and Cohen in the short program, hers was good, but theirs was great and much better. Slutskaya and Cohen had long been considered the two best short program skaters in the World by that point. I thought Shizuka Arakawa's SP was overscored, but Fumie was never beating her in the end anyway. Fumie's LP while also plausible and strong (although a little less strong than her SP) was not strong enough either, even in comparision to Cohen`s wonderful skate aside from 2 major errors and Slutskaya`s sluggish skate, to make up the gap.

    I do think though had she won the bronze at the 2006 Olympics and the gold at the 2006 Worlds she would have retired very happily. So while I dont think she deserved either, I almost wish she had been given then for that reason alone. I think she would have been a fine pro career, but now even that window is closed on her forever probably.
  5. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Of all the Olympics she could have missed this was the best one to miss. Even with how the conmpetition panned out I doubt she would have even medaled. She was past her prime, not a COP skater, had not done more than 5 triples in a LP in forever, and her SP with the same music as Slutskaya paled in comparision the times I saw it. Be glad she got to skate in the 2 Olympics she actually had a real shot of winning at. The huge shame is definitely not Kwan, but Mao Asada missing the 2006 Olympics. She so could have and probably would have won the gold there. Such a shame as seeing she might never get the Oly Gold medal now. The biggest example ever of the travesty of the stupid new age rules. I even thought at the time Mao's absence tainted Shizuka's win a bit since Shizuka was 0-3 vs Mao in the 05/06 season, but as time has gone on thankfully that isnt the case.
  6. Really

    Really No longer just a "well-known member" Yay!

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    Riiiight...:rolleyes:
  7. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    We'll never know how Kwan would have scored, but let't not forget that Kwan's weakest and not-ready-for-COP programs in 2005 scored well enough for medal contention even with the worst LP performance of her career at Worlds (maybe 1994 was worse). She also landed six triples in both 2004 and 2005 seasons. As for the SP, if you mean the one time you saw it, then yeah, it wasn't her best work. You have a valid point, but one can argue that she might've done well enough to medal as well.

    The reason why I was sad about her withdrawal wasn't that Kwan had to withdraw but that she was in a physical condition that prevented her from giving her best shot.
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2012
  8. FunnyBut

    FunnyBut Well-Known Member

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    I actually agree with you on this part, I believe Cohen/Slute are significantly better skaters than Fumie, and they both skated the SP lights out, and deserved that lead over Fumie. I do think Fumie was underscored in the LP, for some reason the 2nd ranked Japanese skater, whether it's Fumie, Akiko or Yukari doesn't get the respect of the judges, JMHO. I would have definitely put her LP over Slutes (and given her better PCS than Slute), probably not Cohen.
  9. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    I would have felt more passionate about Suguri not medaling had she skated her incredible Carmen LP from the year prior as opposed her boring Rachmaninoff one. I will say that I did love Fumie's dress in Torino though and I think her SP was one of the better ones of the competition.

    BTW, who was Japan's no. 1 lady going into 2006? Suguri got astronomical scores at Nationals. I remember some grumbling about score inflation for a selected few to secure them a spot at the Olympics. I had forgotten that Nakano beat Ando at Nationals and had a better season, but because of Japan's qualification procedures, Ando got to go. Then they changed the procedure for 2010 and Suzuki benefitted due to her stellar 2009-2010 season going into Nationals to Nakano's detriment.

    Nakano just couldn't catch a break, could she?
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2012
  10. dawnie

    dawnie Active Member

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    Going into Torino, I don't know if there was a general consensus as to who was the #1 Japanese lady- Suguri or Arakawa. Arakawa was World Champion but was sort of an after-thought during the Olympic season when she failed to make the GPF even though she was among the highest scorers in the GP. She then came in 3rd at JPN Nationals which Suguri won over her and Asada- the actual #1 Japanese lady that season. But when they all arrived in Torino, I really do believe Arakawa put herself in Olympic gold medal position during the official practices. She "won" all her practice sessions and pulled out shit like 3-3-3's like it was nothing.

    As for Ando, IIRC, the JPN federation wanted her in Torino because of sponsors and what not. She was their IT girl before Asada came in the picture and Nakano never really fit in their plans. The team was always going to be Suguri, Arakawa, and Ando unless one of them got injured.

    It's very interesting though that Nakano beat Ando at both 2006 and 2010 Nationals but Ando got the ticket to the Olympics because of different rules both times- A point system used for past competitions in 2006 and highest finisher in the GPF in 2010. Nakano was so robbed of at least one Olympic trip and one World medal (2008).

    Re: Suzuki vs Nakano in 2010- I'm pretty sure Suzuki got the spot over Nakano because she placed higher at Nationals (by something like less than a point!). The only guaranteed spot was for Ando who was the highest Japanese finisher in the GPF. I could be wrong but I don't think they weren't using a point system or considering prior competitions when it came to the other spots in 2010. But we all know Asada was getting one no matter what and that it came down to Suzuki and Nakano.
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2012
  11. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    I think Shizuka was definitely Japanese #1 going into Turin. Yes Fumie won Nationals, but in the SP when she and Shizuka were both clean Shizuka was 1st. Shizuka did a bad LP, was only 4th in the LP below Yoshie Onda, which is why Fumie won Nationals. I think if Asada was age eligible for the Games she would have gotten top backing over Shizuka though. They lowballed her at Nationals and gave very high marks to Shizuka and Fumie, since they knew she wasnt going to the Games, and they didnt want an age ineligible to look better than the ladies they were sending to the Games.

    Nakano had medaled at the GP final that season so I see no excuse for Ando to have been sent over her after finishing below Nakano at Nationals as well. Ando was never going to do well at the Games that year, she wasnt in form at all at the time and it was a stupid move, as Ando's poor Olympic finish went on to prove. Onda finished above both at Nationals though, so if it were strictly based on Nationals she would have went.

    I totally agree with you on Fumie's program. I pretty much prefered every LP she had ever done to her Rachmaninoff LP which was perhaps her worst work ever, and didnt suit any of her strengths, in fact merely exposed the strengths she did not have. She and her choreography also didnt make the music come to her life at all. That and her only doing 5 triples, and Slutskaya and Cohen's spectacular SPs, and I really have no problems with her not medalling. As for PCS, lets be real here, Fumie was only ever going to get higher PCS than Slutskaya if her program was much better, and her Rachmanioff program not skated spectacularly was not that, even with Irina's blah LP that year skated poorly that night. To draw a parallel, it would be just like facing Kwan in 2002 and 2003 in the U.S, the only way she was going to get higher presentation marks is if her program blew Kwan's out of the water, it was similar to what she would have had to do to get PCS comparable or better to Slutskaya or Cohen in 2006, not saying it is right, just realistically given how the sport works, and how Fumie has never really been a big big name, even when winning her world medals.

    Fumie should have skated cleanly at the 2005 Worlds. With her 4CCs performances that year at Worlds she would have very easily won the bronze, maybe even the silver. Even with just one more successful jump, which still wouldnt have been a perfect competition, she would have been 3rd. She needed to medal at the 2005 Worlds to wrestle support of Japanese #1 back even with Shizuka bombing there, since Shizuka is a past World Champion who can do 3/3s, and at odd times has a revered style and program, and Fumie is not.
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2012
  12. Wyliefan

    Wyliefan Well-Known Member

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    She really couldn't. And she was such a lovely skater. (Yeah, I know, leg wrap -- but she was still a lovely skater!)
  13. shine

    shine Well-Known Member

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    She was decent, but she just wasn't that great. Suzuki was a better skater and rightfully beat her for the 2010 spot.
  14. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    I prefer Suzuki as well. I would have preferred if Ando was left off. Her material was weak in 2010 and her skating was just blah. However, there was no way they were going to leave out a former World Champion and a skater who just medaled at the prior year's Worlds (and placed second in the LP portion). I wish Nakano could have gotten a medal at 2008 Worlds, then I'd be more ok with her not going to the Olympics in 2010. I also wish Nakano would have went to the 2006 Olympics. I enjoyed Ando in the beginning of the 2005-2006 season, but something happened by the time the Olympics rolled around and she just lost her spark.
  15. Iceman

    Iceman Well-Known Member

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    Surprisingly in the long program, Suguri had a higher technical score than Slutskya. The lack of level 4 spins and spiral hurt her.

    Although Arakawa did not lead after the short, her score was a peronsal best.
  16. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    ^ Not to mention having one less cleanly landed triple than the rest of the top 4. Although, had Slutskaya done a second Triple Lutz as her combo in the second half as opposed to the Triple Toe/Double Toe, she would have gotten 2.2 more points in base value and could have won the silver over Cohen despite one less triple.
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2012
  17. Wyliefan

    Wyliefan Well-Known Member

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    Oh, I love Akiko -- she's my current favorite of the Japanese ladies. But I loved Yukari too.
  18. mikeko

    mikeko New Member

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    Actually, Ando was injured; she had a stress fracture in her foot, which didn't heal by the Olympic games. (She has publicly admitted that.) I don't know whether she hid it from JSF or they knew it but still let her skate.

    Because JSF was heavily criticized for sacrificing Nakano to send Ando to Turin, they tried really hard to send Nakano to Vancouver. But Nakano had already passed her prime while Suzuki was on the rise and virtually unstoppable. Ando finished 2nd and Suzuki 3rd at 2009 GPF, and while Ando was guaranteed a spot in the Olympic team, Suzuki was given no advantage. Hiroshi Nagakubo, Suzuki's coach thought she was going to lose when he saw the judge panel at 2009 Nationals. (He said in an interview with JSF's Noriko Shirota.) They underscored Suzuki and overscored Nakano, but failed to let Nakano win.
  19. dawnie

    dawnie Active Member

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    I enjoyed her in the beginning of the season as well and her SP that season was probably my favorite of all her programs. On a shallow note, I couldn't stand her SP costume and hair in Torino. I remember thinking as she took the ice: who is this random Asian girl and why is she on the ice when Ando is supposed to be there? She looked like a completely different person to me. How a hideous black bondage looking dress with black tights go with Merry Christmas Mr. Lawrence, I will never understand.
  20. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    She was only 18 in Torino, but she looked so much older. Not sure if she chose to dress like that or if that was packaging by Carol Heiss-Jenkins or what, but it did her no favors.
  21. dawnie

    dawnie Active Member

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    It screamed Harajuku so I doubt Carol Heiss-Jenkins had anything to do with that dress. If it were up to her, Ando would have gone out looking like Lisa Ervin or Tonia K in the early 90s. :lol:
  22. skatinginbc

    skatinginbc New Member

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    Fumie Suguri failed to qualify for Japanese Nationals again? I mean "again"? It takes a lot of mental strength to face repeated failure and still be able to keep on pursuing one's dream. I admire her for that.
  23. Iceman

    Iceman Well-Known Member

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    Maybe the fed should let her compete based on her perseverance alone. Or , at lease, invite her to take part in the exhibition.
  24. tkaug

    tkaug New Member

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    She is actually doing some minor shows overseas lately but hasn't been invited in Japan's shows for a while, even when many other Japanese skaters were doing charity shows in Japan, she never joined any of them and showed foreign audience that hip-hop program.
  25. dawnie

    dawnie Active Member

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    Interesting. I'm convinced Shizuka blacklisted her. :lol: Didn't those two not like each other for years while competing?
  26. tkaug

    tkaug New Member

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    Is Shizuka the only Japanese female skater that Fumie doesn't like? I have never heard her get along well with them. That must be one of the reasons why she is not invited in Events in Japan anymore.
  27. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    I remember watching one of the GP events in 2002-2003, and we saw Yoshie Onda and Shizuka watching Fumie Suguri's performance and while they were commenting on it, one of them mocked her Swan Lake arm flaps.

    Through the years, I always had the impression that Fumie never really got along with the other Japanese women for whatever reason while Shizuka was Ms. Popularity (maybe Queen Bee). Fumie seemed to have been able to have a cordial relationship with Kwan and Sasha though.
  28. casken

    casken Well-Known Member

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    I had no idea about any of this drama between Arakawa and Suguri!
  29. Andofanatic

    Andofanatic Member

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    Fumie is such an underrated skater. She was robbed of the 2002 World gold where she deserved to beat both Michelle and Irina. She was robbed of silver or even gold at the 2006 Turino Olympics, where she clearly outskated Sasha Cohen and Irina Slutskaya, and skated just as well as Shizuka Arakawa the winner, doing virtually the same content. I hate skating judges who ruined her career and made her skate all these years for justice.
  30. Andofanatic

    Andofanatic Member

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    Irina Slutskaya was also the most overrated skater ever. She wasnt even the best jumper, her teammate Victoria Volchkova was a better one, so if the judges and Russian federation were rewarding someone just for jumps why didnt they give her more support instead of Irina.
  31. operagirl

    operagirl Active Member

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    Nakano is the best spinner Japan has ever produced.
  32. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    This thread inspired me to watch a slew of Japanese skating videos, and rewatching some of Suguri's best routines reminded me of why I loved her back in the day. When she was on and in her prime, she knew how to perform and was absolutely committed to her choreography.

    It's a shame what the Code in Torino made Fumie do to her spins, because I think she gave the best performance of the night in the SP. Not saying she should have placed higher as her technical elements weren't nearly as strong as the top 3, but her performance, interpretation, and execution were really up there.

    OT, but this is the first time I've seen Hanae Yokoya and is it me or is her 1996 Worlds LP really good?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Gy-Nzjuxx4
  33. Kelvster

    Kelvster Well-Known Member

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    aw ... fumie suguri. I rooted for her especially past 2006. When she finally made the worlds in 2009 (after failing in 2007 and 2008) I thought it was a good way to end her career, but obviously she decided to continue indefinitely :( ... even bowing out in 2010 when she failed to make the Olympic team wouldn't have been embarrassing (her free skate at the pre-Olympics Nationals wasn't great, but she fought and fought ... remember her landing a triple-flip, double-toe-double loop at the end of the programme which I never saw from her and which showed her fighting spirit.

    interestingly, wikipedia says that Michelle Kwan taught her the triple lutz in 1994! when little fumie attended the practice rink at the World Championships.

    And obviously Sasha Cohen borrowed the tights from Suguri in 2002.

    She seems to be quite friendly with the Americans (and her spoken English ain't bad at all, from what I have heard from interviews). But I wonder if the same can be said about her relationship with other Japanese skaters :eek:
  34. Alex Forrest

    Alex Forrest Banned Member

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    With all due respect, what WAS her problem? She seemed to have good flow, but she was never over her body. She had good flow, but she was brittle and not with it on the ice. Never could straighten her knee or ankle. She missed the ballet class that you actually need to do something with your body before you give those dramatic bows. Her coaches robbed her IMO. She landed many jumps, but the sum of the whole was less than the parts. She and Yoshie Onda must have had the same coaches. There is more to just skating fast and landing jumps.
  35. orientalplane

    orientalplane Mad for mangelwurzels

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  36. Jeschke

    Jeschke Well-Known Member

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    are you kidding?
    to fresh up your memories , a free program with 2f2t, sal<< and a wobbly 2a2t plus messy spins couldn´t be in any means compared to shizukas free skate. and even sasha with 3s3tseq and a much more complex program was obviously superior than suguri.
    suguris free skate was absolute easily built, the choreography and transitions weren´t great at all. and 6.0 system has gone, so it´s not all about landing the jumps (which weren´t as good either, as i mentioned before)
    Coco and (deleted member) like this.
  37. lowtherlore

    lowtherlore New Member

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    Watching Arakawa crowned while herself missing the podium must have been pretty hard to swallow for her, after having had an overall better international career up to that point except for the Arakawa&#8217;s WC win. She even shunned being on the same flight back to Japan with the rest of the team, with the Japanese media waiting at the airport to greet their only OGM of the Turin games. She might have felt that there&#8217;s something left to prove yet &#8211; her longevity, love of skating, whatever it was. I&#8217;d say she was respectably successful at it, making GP podiums and GPF in the following seasons, although since then it&#8217;s become painful to watch.
  38. Lara

    Lara Well-Known Member

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    Agreed on both counts. I loved Fumie in her prime and she had some excellent programs especially in 2002 with Ave Maria and Moonlight Sonata - also 2005 with Pink Panther/Carmen (damn that fall on the lutz in the 2005 Worlds SP). It's a crying shame how weak and generic 2006 was in comparison. :(

    And Hanae was indeed great, here's another skate from 1995 NHK where she placed second - wonderful smile!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbd3Wc0KMFY
    I remember asking what happened to her after - puberty was the answer IIRC unfortunately.
  39. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear New Member

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    I remember a video after her 2006-7 Nationals Gala performance that showed a crowd of skaters singing happy birthday to her and presenting her with a cake. (Mao was in there somewhere, iirc.) So she must have had some Japanese skaters she got along with.

    Out of the top four, she actually had the highest GOEs on the jumps, I think. Her footwork was excellent also. The spin levels and the spiral sequence were not as good, but she was really hosed on the PCS.
  40. dawnie

    dawnie Active Member

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    Shizuka was totally Ms. Popular, which is ironic since she was known to be reserved and cold while Fumie was considered the expressive performer. All the Japanese girls (except Fumie :lol:) seem to like and respect Shizuka, it appears. She seems like the type of person who if you are on her good side, she's your BFF but if you are on her bad side...they don't call her Divakawa for nothing. :glamor:

    I get the feeling it was probably the ones around her age (Yoshie and Shizuka) she didn't get along with. But I do remember reading that she scolded a young Miki for not paying attention on practice ice when Fumie was rising up the ranks and Miki was a kid. Which reminds me, wasn't it Fumie who was accused of intentionally "impeding" Yuna during practice sessions? Man, who would have thought after all these years that Fumie Suguri will provide so much :watch: