FS Performances Before CoP that would score high under CoP

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by aftershocks, Dec 4, 2010.

  1. PUNKPRINCESS

    PUNKPRINCESS New Member

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    There are lots of skaters who would have excelled under CoP with the programs they used under 6.0, but had they skated under CoP I somehow doubt they would have skated to the same brilliance. IMO, CoP stifles creativity and freedom and favors mechanical, cut-and-pasted control over inspiration. Not EVERY program under CoP, but that's just how it seems to me. Michelle Kwan, Johnny Weir, and Kurt Browning would never have been done justice. I believe Alexei Yagudin is one of the true exceptions who may have done equally well under CoP as he did under 6.0.

    I had this discussion here a few weeks ago (sorry for the thorniness, Ziggy!)
    http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?t=75754&page=2

    Yes!!! And boo-urns to that one judge who gave Johnny the 4.9 and 5.0. He/she would never be able to justify that under CoP.

    This CoP program of Johnny's, I always thought, was constructed beautifully.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AW9XqGT4rJI

    Wow...Kay Thomson. Never heard of her or seen her before, but that's one heck of a program.

    Great picks of Harding and Ito for strong CoP candidates, too.
     
  2. all_empty

    all_empty Well-Known Member

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    Irina Slutskaya's short programs in the late 90s and early 00s would have scored well under COP.

    Her 1998 short program was a delight, with a huge death drop, 2A with arm over the head, and a great footwork sequence.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJKs2kaJlyc

    Her rarely seen 1999 short program was even better, with one-footed turns into a 3F+2T, running threes into 3Lo, a butterfly flying camel with layover position, 2A with arm over the head, COP-worthy spirals, and her trademark combination spin.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpOKM8P_Msc

    Her 2000 short featured a better-positioned flying camel and a sideways-to-back layback.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qP6JJcxLhw&feature=related

    Many know her excellent, athletic Spheeris program. Great catch-foot layback (sometimes with acceleration), and a one-foot footwork sequence.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAeqqFMXUDc&feature=related
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2010
  3. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    Many of Surya's 3/3s and all of her attempted quads would have been downgraded.
     
  4. vodkashot

    vodkashot Active Member

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  5. shine

    shine Well-Known Member

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  6. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    And Philippe Candeloro would have placed lower many times under CoP :lol:
     
  7. Seerek

    Seerek Well-Known Member

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    I get the feeling though that he wouldn't have received the component scores he deserved considering he was skating only in the 2nd out of 4 groups.
     
  8. Allen

    Allen Glad to be back!

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    I think Matt Savoie is so underrated. I don't think he ever got the points he deserved in PCS, so I don't know if he would have necessarily done better in COP with this program. I think he and Buttle were in a class by themselves in terms of transitions, which I don't think either really ever got high enough components scores for.
     
  9. ks1227

    ks1227 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with all of this about Savoie. But I do wonder what would have happened if he had emerged a few years later under CoP rather than going through the change from 6.0 to CoP. By the time CoP came along, Matt had sort of been pegged already as being in the "second tier" of U.S. men's skaters. So, no, he never got the PCS marks he deserved under CoP (though things did improve in his last season). And it didn't help that he was not always consistent. But I'll bet he would have gotten better PCS marks under CoP if he hadn't been pegged already. His skating was made for CoP in so many ways, particularly the transitions but not only that. :swoon: :swoon:

    ETA: And that 2002 Worlds performance was wonderful! :respec:
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2010
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  10. Squibble

    Squibble New Member

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    I love how the British Eurosport announcers call him Matthew Sav-WHAH. :swoon: I used to call him that before I learned better. :shuffle:

    The Men's LP at 2002 Worlds would be a good one for another FSU Judging Game, if we ever have one.

    The Top Eleven were:

    Yagudin
    Goebel
    Honda
    Abt
    Li
    Weiss
    Liu
    Zhang
    Vlascenko
    Dambier
    Savoie

    Quad or no quad, I think Savoie would beat at least half (maybe even seven or eight) of the men above him under current (or 2009-10) COP judging.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2010
  11. escaflowne9282

    escaflowne9282 Well-Known Member

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    I didn't want to beat the dead horse yet again , but I disagree with this. S&P had a wonderful connection to/awareness of each other and a terrific chemistry. I can see how one would find them very well united in mind and spirit. However, when it came to their overall body unison , they really did not skate as close together as their rivals, didn't have the same use of full range of body movement, sudden shifts in support and edging, and constant intertwining body-line or changes of hold etc. I found their pairs spiral positions to be very mismatched at times too.

    I think both B&S and S&Z's choreography from 2002 would have done very well under COP. S&P's Orchid would have as well.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2010
  12. bbkenn

    bbkenn Well-Known Member

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    Many of Kurt Browning's programs would stand the test of COP, just the footwork alone, and his musicality....
     
  13. Jaana

    Jaana Well-Known Member

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    There is a lot of just plain stroking before each jumps. That would not fare so well with CoP.

    A skater does not need to think of points gathering, that is the choreographer´s job. A skater just needs to be able to perform the created programme.

    I don´t think that Plushenko participated in 2002 Worlds?
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2010
  14. shine

    shine Well-Known Member

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    I think that program of Matt's could have so easily been bland and boring, but the way he skates to the music just totally mesmerizes me and I can watch it over and over. The slow section in the middle where he does a series of edge moves in particular just gives me chills. Pure art. And the triple axel out of the spread eagle :swoon: :swoon: The man deserves sooooo much more respect than he's ever gotten.
     
  15. senorita

    senorita New Member

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    sometimes in CoP i think the choreographer gets marked rather than the skaters and if they could skate this choreo aestetically pleasing.
    Abott pays justice to his choreographers for sure!
     
  16. Squibble

    Squibble New Member

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  17. gkelly

    gkelly Well-Known Member

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    That wasn't even designed to be a competition program. It's a show program, performed here in the context of an "artistic" competition.

    Not quite 4 minutes (right between junior and senior ladies long program length), with 4 jumps (no combos), two spins, and let's say one spiral sequence. No step sequence and fewer jumps and spins than one would expect to find in a long program. So there's plenty of time to do extra spirals and other field moves and to take her time selling each of the moves.

    Suppose someone did choose to leave out half the allowed elements in a long program and to concentrate on the in-between skating and program components instead, especially if that skater was best at everything else besides the jumps and spins. How high could the components go for excellent performance of a program with sparse elements? How well could high PCS make up for doing only half as many elements as the other competitors? High GOEs on the elements the skater did do would help.