From Russia With Love - Winter 2012/13

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, Nov 27, 2012.

  1. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    So I assume now the decision re Worlds is Kovtun vs. Menshov and Gosviani vs. Leonova (Agafonova hasn't competed internationally all season, and wasn't even at Nationals, so I'd doubt they'd consider her now)? I feel like in some ways Menshov should get to go to Worlds after missing out on Euros where he really should have gotten to compete at, but Kovtun should be given the option to compete at JW if he wishes, it would only seem fair given how well he's been skating this season. Idk if it's too late to for that though. Guess we'll find out soon?
     
  2. Kasey

    Kasey Loving on babies!

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    as much as I like and prefer Menshov, I'm keeping in mind that his score here, which beat Kovtun's score at Europeans, is at a Russian national event (thus more generous scoring probably), and with "bonus points" for quad combos that exist only within the Russian scoring system, not internationally; that said, he probably would probably still be at about the scoring level of Kovtun, and who knows how he would have done if he'd been able to go to Euros this time. My heart wants Menshov to go to worlds, and the hell with how many spots Russian men get, since Plushenko owns one of them anyway.
     
  3. Katarzyna

    Katarzyna Well-Known Member

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    Why? Because he is Kovtun? Just because he placed 5th at a competition where Russian Fed basically robbed Menshov off a chance to compete there? :confused:

    Menshov’s score at Russian Cup was higher than Kovtun’s at Euros. And given Menshov’s standings with his own Fed it’s not like it was just an easy game to achieve such score at Russian Cup Final. :p This was the third time in a row (!) that Menshov achieved a higher score than Kovtun at Euros (NRW Trophy, RN and now Russian Cup Final). If Russian Fed still goes with Kovtun, it’s just proof that their selection is not based on performance, but on factors like their coaches reputation and their age. :blah:

    I really wish Kovtun had competed at Russian Cup. Then it would have been in the own hands of each skater to perform better than his competitors and to secure his spot. That’s what a fair and transparent selection should have looked like. :(
     
  4. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Kovtun's score at Euros was with an illegal combo in the FS...it would have been about 5 points higher otherwise. And that's international scoring as some kid just up from juniors making his senior debut, while Menshov's score at Russian Cup is with the Russian bonuses and inflated domestic PCS...taking that into consideration, Kovtun's score at Euros is justifiably quite a bit better, and I think the Russian Fed knows that, but they already chalked Menshov out of Euros and he did compete here and win so it would be another slap in the face to Menshov if he doesn't get to go to Worlds either. If Kovtun had competed at this event and beaten Menshov then I would say he should definitely get to go to Worlds, but where he didn't compete, idk, it makes it tough. Is there time for the fed to decide to send Kovtun to JW still/is Kovtun interested in going? Again, might not be the most fair to the other guys who competed at the Junior Nationals, where Kovtun also didn't compete, and earned their spots, but in terms of having the strongest team possible, Kovtun would be one of the favorites to win while I think Kolyada and Samarin may find it hard to even medal. And Kovtun did have really strong results at 3 competitions in a row (JGPF, Nationals, Euros). But idk if he's even been training his junior programs recently. Hmm.

    I still wish Nikol would go to Worlds but my guess is they'll probably send Leonova.
     
  5. Sylvia

    Sylvia Bring on the JGP & Sr B comps!

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    What is the definition of "chalked" in this context? :confused: (one definition in the Urban Dictionary is "Kicked times two").
     
  6. haribobo

    haribobo Well-Known Member

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    Its kind of amazing that Voronov managed to take himself out of the discussion after such a strong performance at Nationals to take silver behind only Plushenko. There's no right answer between Menshov and Kovtun. It's really sad that Russia only has one men's spot though.
     
  7. Domshabfan

    Domshabfan Well-Known Member

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    Kovtun Russian cup is not nationals part two, it only gains significance when used as a skate-off for worlds. In this case Kovtun did have a very strong performance at the europeans to support his chances for the worlds... Though this competition could help Menshov get the reserve spot ahead of Vornov.

    Russian selection is based on achieving maximum spot for the next Olympics. You make it sound like Menshov is from a weak region, he is from St.Petersbourgh which is a strong regional federation, not very weak at all.
     
  8. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    Send the old man! Menshov is the future of Russian figure skating!

    :mitchell:
     
  9. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    So when are we going to know who Russia sends to Worlds? I'm wondering if the Russian Cup final even means anything and if Gosviani and Kovtun will wind up at Worlds regardless...
     
  10. babayaga

    babayaga Active Member

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    Several people already mentioned "inflated domestic PCS" for Menshov at this competition since it is usually expected for local PCS to be higher. It was not the case at all this time though, if you actually look at PCS Menshov got here and compare with his international scores you would see they were not inflated, but were even a couple of points lower than what he got at Cup of Russia for instance. It was clear the judges were instructed to give much lower PCS than usual local competition standards. As a result, the scores are very much comparable directly to what Kovtun got at Euros.
     
  11. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

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  12. Sylvia

    Sylvia Bring on the JGP & Sr B comps!

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    Detailed protocols for all disciplines (94 pages) of the Russia Cup Final in Tver - Junior then Senior: http://fsrussia.ru/upl/ckeditor/35120.pdf
    Thanks to l'etoile for posting the link in the Leonova thread GSD! Senior Ladies SP protocol starts on page 85. I've also cross-posted the link in the Russian Cup competition thread in Kiss and Cry.
     
  13. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

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  14. Moka-Ananas

    Moka-Ananas Man's Ruin

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    It says Bazarova/Larionov have left Kalinina due to personal difficulties.
    ATM they are practicing in Novogorsk with Viktor Kudriavtsev.
    Kalinina has left Saransk and will never again coach there.

    The first article appears like yellow press to me since the accusations in there are quite :rofl:. I simply cannot imagine Ludmila Kalinina regularly throwing big parties :rockstar: with young people in her appartment.
     
  15. love_skate2011

    love_skate2011 Well-Known Member

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    I'm confused so Bazarova/Larionov are now with Moskvina, Kudriavtsev or Vasiliev ? :confused:
     
  16. Moka-Ananas

    Moka-Ananas Man's Ruin

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    As I said before: At the moment they are in Novogorsk with Kudriavtsev and he will also go to Worlds with them.
     
  17. kirkbiggestfan

    kirkbiggestfan Well-Known Member

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    Who trains with Oleg V in Chicago besides Della Monica-Guarise?
     
  18. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

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    I feel bad for them to have to go through this not only a few weeks before worlds but before the Olympic season. They are head cases as it is, I wonder if something happened between the GPF and now? I guess if they do go to Vasiliev someone will have to move. Maybe they will be happier.
     
  19. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    Well hopefully her jumps will improve then. :lol: Didn't know he coached pairs.
     
  20. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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    OMG! I can't believe..:lol: stupid yellow press...
     
  21. peibeck

    peibeck Counting down the days 'til Skate America

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    He's worked with them before on jumps. :shuffle:
     
  22. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    Either Moskvina or Vasiliev will be good for B&L. I don't see Kudriavtsev as a pairs coach, and what B&L need is becoming more like a pair. They jump and spin so far apart, they look like two singles skaters.
     
  23. Jeschke

    Jeschke Well-Known Member

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    wasn't there a rule that all russian skaters were not allowed to switch coaches inn the pre-olympic and olympic season ?
    works well :D
     
  24. quiqie

    quiqie Well-Known Member

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    The rule was, they are allowed to switch only if the Federation approves. ;)
     
  25. Jeschke

    Jeschke Well-Known Member

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    haha, super rule :D
     
  26. quiqie

    quiqie Well-Known Member

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    And it's confirmed: http://fcp-press.ru/news/p2_articleid/6620

    Yuri Larionov confirms they no longer train with Ludmila Kalinina and says that the reasons behind their decision will be revealed after the World Championships.
     
  27. Jeschke

    Jeschke Well-Known Member

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    as possible coachs afterwards were vasiliev and mozer mentioned
     
  28. quiqie

    quiqie Well-Known Member

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  29. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

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  30. Sylvia

    Sylvia Bring on the JGP & Sr B comps!

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    http://en.rsport.ru/other_sports/20130221/646719734.html