From Russia With Love - Winter 2012/13

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, Nov 27, 2012.

  1. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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    Leonova dumped herself with her performances, sadly.

    It's as though all her confidence came from knowing she would have the full support of her federation at international competitions. Once this was siphoned off to Sotnikova and Tuk, she decided all was lost and let it all go.

    That's how it seems to me. I really did enjoy the energy and flair she brought to her performances, and the way she would attempt 7 triples somethings, even if she flutzed.

    Good bye to the pirate, hello to wonder babies.
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  2. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Nope. In your head maybe. To most people it seems only fair that a skater who hasn't had a single good competition so far this season isn't sent to Euros.

    If Leonova performs well at the Russian Cup and Gosviani doesn't, Leonova will surely get sent to Worlds.
  3. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    The Eurosport guys agreed, saying he was totally a junior, commented about his lack of presentation, at least in the first part of the FS, but his PCS of 72+ suggest otherwise so, if they are going to give him marks like that for empty programs where he jumps to background music, then, well, there's not really a reason for him to change what he's doing seeing as he's being rewarded for it. As long as he lands the big tricks, which he has been doing very consistently this season, the judges will reward him for his jumping and the emptiness of his programs and disconnect between his skating and the music will be overlooked. Even at the JGPF, he got the highest PCS of the field in the FS, and that was against the likes of much more musical skaters like Brown, Tanaka, and Farris, but they all made mistakes while Kovtun was clean with all his jumps including 4t-3t and his great 3a. So basically, he's fine as long as he lands his jumps. I suspect though he might get Nan Song treatment in that, should he be off with his jumps at a given competition, the PCS and total scores will drop significantly. But I don't see that happening at Worlds, his technique is so solid and he's been on a roll this whole season.
  4. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Yes and I think it's pretty certain Kovtun is going to Worlds. Unless he bombs at Russian Cup but he's been super consistent all season and it's Gachinski, Menshov and Voronov who will probably be doing the bombing. :p

    Leonova and Gosviani are much more uncertain. Leonova is a trooper and I wouldn't be surprised if she put herself together, finally. Gosviani, on the other hand, will be under huge pressure to perform well. Will she deal with it? Not the positions she's been in before.

    Russian Cup will be very exciting. :)
  5. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    Is it for sure that all of these skaters will perform at Russian Cup? I thought perhaps the fed might compare the skating displayed at Russian Cup to that performed at Euros by Kovtun and Gosviani.
  6. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

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    The three pair of K/S, B/L and S/K are going as well. I guess it's always good to have extra competitons even if you don't go to worlds.
  7. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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  8. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    Leonova was the one eligible for euros when the team was announced- gosviani wasn't

    Leonova is under far more pressure than gosviani- its not even close- leonova cant make one mistake in any way and her performance has to be better than gosvianis at euros and equal to or better than her 2012 worlds performance.

    There is no scenario where leonova is sent to worlds
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  9. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    This seems relevant to you, since you keep repeating it, but it was relevant neither to the Russian Fed nor the ISU. In fact, the Russian Fed might have been impressed that not only did Gosviani make the Euros TES minimums at a last-minute junior event, she made one of the Worlds TES minimums and her other TES score may have met the new minimum. Talk about pressure: Gosviani didn't have any other events.to.fall back upon and she needed to prove at Torun and Zagreb that the Russian Fedd was right to appoint her. Perhaps they were impressed, and rightly so, since they had the qualified Leonova to fall back upon.

    In one way she is, but Gosviani is also under huge pressure.to get international experience.and help.built her reputuion, so she doesn't get buried by the wonder babies and so she can earn a GP assignment on her own. While it won't be great for her, Leonova can call this season a wash like other Worlds medalists who've had bad seasons -- Slutskaya, Suguri, Arakawa -- and focus on next season.
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  10. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    I know it wasnt relevent to the russian federation because of their dumping of leonova right after nationals.

    And gosviani is going to worls so she is going from rejected jrgp skater to euros and worlds because the test for leonova will be to be equal to or better than her worlds 2012 performance
  11. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

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    How do you figure she was dumped after the abysmal season she had?
  12. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    Because she was third in line of euros eligibility when euro team was announced
  13. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    I actually think Leonova may end up getting it... but only if she shows improvements at Russian Cup.

    Leonova got 153.49 and 157.27 for terrible performances on the GP. Gosviani got 154.41 at Euros for a good LP combined with a poor SP. Gosviani wasn't known to the judges, and her scores for the sames skates would probably improve dramatically at Worlds because now she has a reputation. But Leonova's scores would also go up at Worlds if she skates better than she has been and also just because scores tend to go up during the season. They were also only separated by like a point at Nationals.

    People seem to prefer Gosviani's skating but Leonova has the bigger rep and she will get better PCS if she skates well and is more likely to be held up internationally if she does bomb, a luxury Gosviani doesn't have yet. She's also 3rd in WS so she'll draw for her SP within the last two groups, while Gosviani will go much earlier. So Leonova even with a mistake could theoretically end up higher than a clean Gosviani just due to the draw and name recognition. The Russian federation should be relying on Liza and Adelina to get 3 spots, not either of these two, but Leonova might be the better bet as in someone who has some leeway to make the top 10 even if she's not perfect.

    The other thing is, if the fed is looking to promote young skaters, is Gosviani one of them? If their dream team for Sochi is Julia/Liza/Adelina will they even bother to invest anything in her? I'm not saying it's fair, but I believe they think this way.
  14. Kasey

    Kasey Loving on babies!

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    Uh, yeah, so was Menshov. We all know how that played out, and he had a hell of a lot more consistant and better season internationally than Leonova.
  15. misskarne

    misskarne Spirit. Focus. Ability. Tenacity. Aussie Grit.

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    Gachinski's vkontakt post upthread definitely suggest that he, Menshov, Voronov and Kovtun will still skate off for the Worlds spot.

    Either way, even if Kovtun doesn't go, that would be too late for him to head to JW wouldn't it? Isn't that a little foolish of the RFSF?
  16. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    If you get rid of someone who was world silver medalist you can put more attention and more focus on Liza and Adelina and Julia. Just toss out everything previous to those two including Julia. They are future don't even factor in anyone else. So they don't even have to invest in gosviani just use her to put more focus on Liza and Adelina.

    Kovtun had eligibility for euros so skipping menshov for him wasn't skipping for someone who wasn't actually eligible.
  17. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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    caseyedwards, your argument is getting a bit repetitive. You will have to get used to the fact that Leonova WAS beaten at senior nationals by Gosviani and that's why Gosviani was sent to Europeans. If Leonova skates well at the Russian Cup final, she may be sent to worlds; if she skates badly, the chances are that she won't be sent. No matter how much you like it or not. So you may post here another hundreds of posts about how unfair and immoral it was, but it is not going to change anything. Besides, the majority of posters here thinks it was not unfair.
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  18. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    I didn't say it was immoral. I get why it is happening and even with the nationals result it was a skater being dumped because of the when the third skater was named. Most of the people here because of who leonovas coach is and her programs would have not supported sending leonova anyway lol If she beat Gosviani by a point. The Russia cup final really doesn't matter in naming a skater to worlds.
  19. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    If Leonova had beaten Gosviani by .01, I.don't know who would be arguing that Gosviani should have been sent to Europeans. Leonova would have been sent, and then if continued to skate the way she's skated so far this season, there's no reason to think the international judges would't have dumped her.

    You're just not getting any traction by assuming that anything but Leonova's poor performance at Nationals, and then her early season weakness, which gave the Fed no reason to think her Nationals performance was a fluke were the reasons they didn't send her to Euros. The TES minimums were no sign of achievement or highly regarded by the Fed, especially the low Euros minimums, but a bureaucratic necessity.
  20. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    The International judges are never going to get the chance because that's been taken care of by the federation. I know everyone thinks that because gosviani beat Leonova the federation had a job to get her to euros and get her the minimums so she could skate no matter she couldn't get out of the country earlier because of how she was skating in domestic competitions pre nationals.
  21. DaiKozOda

    DaiKozOda Active Member

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    Stolbova & Klimov are in the lead at the Bavarian Open. They got 59.84 for their SP. Their triple twist got a negative GOE but the rest was ok.
    Antipova & Maisuradze are in close second place with 59.74. They messed up in the side by side triple toes. They got a better TES than Stolbova & Klimov but lost to them on the PCS.
    It will be interesting to see how things will turn in the LP
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2013
  22. alchemy void

    alchemy void Well-Known Member

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    Reading the last page of this thread has made my already prevalent headache, so so so much more worse. :wall:

    Leonova going back to an old program isn't surprising, but I was hoping she'd go back to her voidy Witches of Eastwick LP from two seasons back. Oh well.
  23. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    Do you think Gosviani deserve to beat Leonova at Nationals?

    I wish S&K got more love from the judges. They're my favorite Russian pair. :( I know they don't have the best skating skills, but being almost beaten by a brand new team, who made a mistake, while they were clean, is pretty harsh.

    Yes! Or Chicago. Remind everyone why they liked you in the first place!
  24. elka_sk8

    elka_sk8 Well-Known Member

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    Well you say "dumped" like it was unfair. Leonova only has herself to blame, if she had a better season they may have looked past her finishing behind Gosviani at Nats. But she didn't. And as you say, she finished behind a "jgp reject" of all things. :drama: So get over it.
  25. bek

    bek Guest

    Casey, did you actually watch Russian Nationals, and look at the scores there. Because looking at how Alena skated and how Leonova was scored, I fail to see an example of the Russian judges dumping Alena. Leonova was giving ridiculously high PCS for this performance and had about 8 points higher than PCS on Gosviani
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zTcbf4t0Lo

    Now Leonova's PCS will right now be higher than Gosviani's even with a bad skate. But she's normally not going to get anywhere near the 64.24 she got for that particular skate internationally.

    And I will point out that if you were to put a paper bag over both girls heads http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0pz7QwHFdw

    Gosviani would get higher PCS if no reputation was factored in.

    I fail to see how the Russian federation dumped Leonova, she was scored very generously. And I think if she does well at Russian Cup, they will put her on the World team because I think they'd rather have someone experienced at the Qualifiers for the Olympics. However, they also absolutely have the right to consider their young talent, and the thing is Gosviani does have talent. Its hard for younger skaters to get into the international field given Russia's depth. Leonova got to get out there when the Russian field was weak. However its in their interest to give their skaters some chances. I'm sure they were thinking Gosviani has some talent, and they don't know yet which young skaters will last and which young skaters won't. So why not let her go to Europeans, we can test her out. See how she handles the pressure, and then also let her earn some points towards GPS..

    It also sends Leonova the message too, that its time to get her butt in gear. She may be world Silver medalist but she's been skating like crap all season long, and the Russians have a lot of young talent coming up. They have no reason to hold Leonova up. Considering Leonova has a good shot at making the World team, I fail to see how the Russian fed was so cruel or mean to her. If this was a fluke skate it would be one thing but its not.

    Personally I don't particularly enjoy Leonova's skating but I do think if she skates well at Russian Cup, they should send her to worlds because I think her experience could be useful, and She has delivered for them in the past. But giving the crap she's been skating like lately, I think its smart for the Russians to send Gosviani to Euros, see how she handles it. While also seeing if Leonova can get it together by around Worlds. Because you know what if Leonova is still skating like this by worlds, than she's not going to place well at all and they might be better of sending Gosviani.
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  26. love_skate2011

    love_skate2011 Well-Known Member

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    Antipova/Maisuradze almost beating Stolbova/Klimov ? :eek:
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2013
  27. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    I wasnt referencing the judges at the Russian nationals because all the skaters got higher scores. It was a nationals and everyone was inflated not just leonova. After nationals was over the federation made the decision to name ineligible gosviani over eligible leonova. They made a huge commitment to gosviani that said her nationals skate was good and therefore they would ignore all her pre-nationals performances and make her eligible for euros which also made her eligible for worlds potentially. So all the commitment for this season is now with gosviani so why after doing all his for gosviani would they even consider the results of cup of Russia final and say one good performance from leonova there potentially negates her whole bad season. They did it with gosviani for euros but leonova for worlds just seems unlikely at this point. So does a good performance from leonova as she has more riding on this competition than any in her past. The idea that his time off will automatically make her great is kind of strange. I don't know why her season was so bad but nothing indicates she will skate well at cup of Russia final or it would matter if she did do well. They have already made such a huge effort to get gosviani to euros and put her on the euros team. It's true what others write hat the team for 2014 is going to be sotnikova/Liza/Julia and Liza and sotnikova didn't need leonova at euros as some kind of captain or something.
  28. bek

    bek Guest

    There's inflating someone's scores, and there's inflating someone's scores. Niki Pcs at Euros (and for a worse skate I believe) she got a 52.97 and a 55.83 at Russian Nationals. Whereas Leonova got a 64.24 in Pcs when at Skate America 57.25 she got at Cup of Russia 53.54 at Skate America. At worlds where she won the Silver medal with a GOOD skate she got 59.10...

    Leonova's PCS at Russian Nationals were ridiculous. I don't think Niki's for her skate at Russians Nationals was.

    And once again, investing in Niki, I don't see this huge investment. They wanted to give her the opportunity for Europeans, and I suspect wanted to send Leonova a message too. They probably saw it as a good opportunity to spread the wealth.

    The Russian judges spotted Leonova about a 10 point advantage at Russian Nationals, and that 10 point advantage wasn't really because she was a better skater but because of her rep.. The coaches council probably figured if Leonova couldn't over come that combined with her bad season, Niki probably deserved something...
  29. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    Well if you doubt investment in gosviani it's certainly effort and going out of their way at this particular moment to get her to competitions instead of leonova.

    Tuktamisheva got 66 pcs and that was 11 points above her highs in gp.

    The judges had their favorites but the federation said they were wrong and have made their own choices and said no leonOva even though she could go to euros and gosviani couldn't when she was named.
  30. bek

    bek Guest

    Tuk skated well. Leonova did not. The point is Leonova's huge PCS hardly showcase a plan on the Russian fed's part to dump her. Rather it suggest she was one of the favorites.

    As for going out of their way, I think its rather they felt Gosviani has promise (she after all can do much harder jump layouts than Leonova) and felt that she deserved a shot at least getting the minimum.

    If this particular skate was a fluke, I think the Russian Fed might very well have named Leonova anyways. But Leonova's been skated horribly all season long, something that you conveniently forget.
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 9, 2013
  31. Autumn_girl

    Autumn_girl Active Member

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    I remember some of the officials interview when the Euros team was named. There were words like "Sending Leonova now means throwing her into the breach. She doesn't have time to get prepared for Euros considering her current shape". I guess that makes sense. Have the same happened in the country like USA, she would be out of Euros/4CC AND Worlds team immediately. Now Alena has a chance for Worlds, but of course she has to skate well for that, nothing wrong with that. To be honest, I think Gosviani deserved to be above Leonova at Nationals by 10 points at least, not 1-2, because she skated very well with 3-3 in both programs while Leonova barely landed anything
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  32. elka_sk8

    elka_sk8 Well-Known Member

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    It's not like she was underage and they faked her birth certificate to make her eligible. All she had to do was compete at an international event to get the TES minimum. Big difference and I don't understand why you keep harping on it. Honestly, even if they had named Leonova to Euros (or name her to Worlds) I'm sure they would have wanted Gosviani eligible as an alternate.
  33. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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    Does anyone know what is the name of Serafima Sakhanovich SP music? I know it from somewhere and it keeps playing in my head...
  34. ChelleC

    ChelleC Well-Known Member

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    "Once Upon a December" It's from the soundtrack to the animated movie Anastasia. You probably remember Tara Lipsinski skating to the music back in 1997-98.
  35. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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    Thank you! I knew I remember it from somewhere!
  36. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    I didn't forget and I have been mentioning it myself! I was just about the eligibility for euros factor.

    Gosviani can do a harder 3/3 than 3t/3t but really they're about equal.

    The quote seems like its familiar but not sure what kind of poor shape she is in considering everything. She landed 5 triples falling on triple toe and singling flip and now she's having problems with 2a again.

    The issue of the euros spot is just relevant to leonovas true chances for worlds which are really none.
  37. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Why is that relevant?

    What are you talking about?

    Two skaters skate against each other. The better skater gets sent to Worlds. The pressure is pretty equal.

    SCENARIO WHERE LEONOVA IS SENT TO WORLDS: SHE SKATES BETTER THAN GOSVIANI

    Jesus Christ, I really want to believe you're just trolling.

    And this exactly the point.
  38. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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    Is there a livestream for this all important comp?
  39. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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    Well, they could always sent Irina Slutskaya to worlds if they don't want to send Gosviani and Leonova is still rubbish. (They would have to sent her to any competition first to get the qualifying score though). She still seems to have her triples. Slutskaya would even beat Pluschenko with her age. :lol:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=_x7Mw65WtTM&feature=endscreen

    ETA: just noticed that the link has already been sent in the Trash can. Sorry for repeating the link.
  40. Autumn_girl

    Autumn_girl Active Member

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    I remember not so long ago I turned TV on and there was some skating show, a girls was skating. I didn't recognize her and thought it was Leonova first, but the girl was more graceful and better streched, and then they showed her closer and I was amazed it was actually Slutskaya! She did 3Lo and 2A I think and skated very well, I liked her even more than when she was a competitive skater. I think she is gorgeous!