Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, Nov 27, 2012.
Gosviani probbaly wont be going to Worlds
tehy might gamble with Loenova
(Edited out my question because love_skate2011 has since deleted the original post.)
Well it's a new exhibition, so they probably aren't very comfortable with it yet. It will probably be much better at worlds
I deleted it,
she just went to Germany thats it
If that is true, why isn't she doing Junior Nationals and being considered for Junior Worlds?
Lipnitskaia and Radionova are a lock but I think Gosviani would be a great third entry.
The Fed probably wants to send Pogorilaya, who has built up momentum with 1st and 3rd at her JGP events and 3rd at JGPF. She was also a strong 5th at Nationals, finishing ahead of Gosviani. I think she will be the third entry to JW provided she skates decently well at Junior Nationals - most of the girls who could potentially beat her should she falter are too young to go anyways, so I tend to think barring disaster Anna will be on the team. She has huge 3lz-3t and 2a-3t-2t combos.
Good point, forgot about her.
Well this means that Euros was most likely the first and the last major event for Gosviani.
From a World Standings point of view, Gosviani earned 496 points at Euros, and could only earn a max of 4 points were she to win Jr. Worlds, since only points from one championship count each season. (She'd need 9th or higher at Worlds to earn any incremental points.) None of the other age-eligible Juniors have any WS championship points this season. Lipnitskaia is currently 17th in WS, and while her 2011-12 points will get the 70% factor next season, none drop off, and she'll be age eligible for Worlds. Radionova and Pogorilaya are currently 74th and 78th in WS, and this is the first season they've had points, and were they to do well at Jr. Worlds, their WS will rise by at least 25 if not 30 or more places, after 2010-11 is dropped and 2011-12 is factored by 70%.
Ranked 75th in WS, Gosviani would draw for one of the 15 SP spots in Groups 1 or 2 or the first three spots in Group 3 for the lucky. Leonova is currently ranked 3, with 3481 points. Asada would need a win at 4C's to surpass her before Worlds, and Wagner, the next non-Euro skating, is 870 points behind her and can't pass her even with a 4C's win, so Leonova is guaranteed to be in the draw for skating the SP in Groups 4 and 5. Wagner at 4C's should push Sotnikova and Tuktamysheva down a place, and Murakami could with a win or silver, but it's mathematically impossible for the next in line at 4C's, Zijun Li. The worst ranking the two young Russians will have is 9th and 10th, and they'll draw for spots in the last two groups.
Without a championship score, Leonova will be left with 1911 WS points at the beginning of GP season, which this year would have put her 11th on the WS list. This is important if she doesn't go to Worlds, because she's currently 25th on the SB list, with a shot at being surpassed by V. Helgesson (SB, 28 155.72) and possibly Fuente (SB 32, 152.21) at Worlds. Her WS would guarantee her a GP spot that didn't have to be a host spot.
Gosviani is currently 29th on the SB list, with 154.41, or 3.17 points below Meite's 24th SB, so with a stronger score at Worlds, having established herself at Euros, she, V. Helgesson, Meite, and tied for 23rd Cesario (with Imai) would be fighting for those last Top 24 SB spots, not all to get GP spots. Cesario, Hicks (SB 30, 153.77) and Siraj are going to be trying to better, or in the case of Siraj, establish SB scores. They're all pretty low 50's-80's in WS.
I don't think the Russian Fed necessarily cares about Gosviani, with Sotnikova and Tuktamysheva edging past their growth spurts and adjusting, Leonova as a fallback, and potential star Lipnitskaia if she keeps her jumps for another year, but if they do, and Leonova goes to Worlds, they can give her a host spot or convince another Fed to choose her from the Top 75 list, after the guaranteed spots have been divvied up.
because there are many other juniors even better than Gosviani ?
I can think of the names Sakhanovich , eligible ? or Anna Pogorilaya etc.
from GS forum found some junior practices
Julia is looking great: she went back to her last seasons 2a-3t-2t and 2a-3t, she might still win because she gets huge goes and her spins
Elena has two 3-3-3 planned in FS ? 3lz-3t-3t and 3s-1.5lo-3f
I think it makes a lot of sense as long as Leonova does well at the test skate to send Leonova over Gosviani. She's the reigning World Silver medalist, and I think sending her with the other two maximizes their shot at 3 spots for the Olympics. Adelina and Elizaveta are young, so its a good idea to have Leonova there.
Will Leonova compete at another B competition before Worlds? Or will her next appearance be the test skate? When will the test skate take place?
I have to say I really enjoyed watching Gosviani at Europeans. She really stood out in her practice group and she is a skater that you can't take your eyes off.
in Junior Pairs SP its Tarasova/Morozov
Junior Men SP Alexander Samarin
For those with access to the Kiss and Cry section, results and videos are being posted in the Russian Junior Nationals thread: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/sho...-Nationals-January-31-February-3-2013-Saransk
I enjoyed watching her too. Granted her jumps are a bit wonky but I like her balletic style (much more than Leonova).
I hope Lipnitskya's jumps make it through puberty. She really is a gorgeous skater.
Interview with Tatiana Tarasova
Unless puberty kills her, I think Radionova will totally slay the next quadrennial.
That 3lutz/3toe/3toe combo (!!!) was performed with hardly any effort. As if she was doing 2/2/2.
Well, before getting too excited I'd wait for her development the next years.
Last season Lipnistkaia was jumping as effortless as elena and, although, she looks good in the practice, all of her jumps have a laborious quality
agreed, looking at that practice videos, I actually think Lipnitskaya has higher jumps than Radionova
and Julia's landings are more secure while Elena's tend to be a bit wobbly
Standings after the ladies SP:
1. Elena Radionova - 68.45
2. Serafima Sakhanovich - 67.49
3. Julia Lipnitskaya - 67.03
The depth is just insane! And I think I have found my new favorite Russian wunderkind - Serafima http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEfYvQODJLg
Imo she has what Radionova but especially Lipnitskaya lack so far - she is delicate, has lovely soft skating and holds her positions exquisitely! There is no rushing through her movements or her choreography.
Julia's SP: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JTONQEQQgc
and this girl reminds me of Carolina Kostner http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-_p5EH5qJI
Samarin's FS: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2t1yQDWU9mI
he could have won the junior title, but his 3axel less is hampering him, imo
I'm not as into Radionova as others. Her short strikes me as so gangly (although the long is better) Serafima! though I must say I adore. I think the difficulty is who is going to even make it out of Russia... (With Adelina, Tukt, Radionova, Julia (etc)... Its hard to know with puberty who will last and who won't...
This girl is wonderful. Who says you can't take your time to present yourself just because you are a junior?
Someone should tell her that she will never get a level 4 on the closing layback if she keeps rotating the I position in her combination spin for 8 revs or more and use up the 8 rev feature.
and Julia is off the podium, hope that doesn't mean she's turning into the Caroline Zhang route.
impressed by Sotskova, her arm movements are good for someone very young
I agree, she's wonderful!
Bringing up zhang is just going way too far at this point. Could be like a sotnikova 2012. It's Russian jr nationals where there is just unreal unprecedented talent.
Could also be a beginning of puberty. Around this time a year ago both Adelina and Liza's body started changing. That doesn't necessarily mean that she will struggle. Julia not at her best will be probably better than most European skaters.
Oh dear, I am really hoping that this won't be true! She's lovely!!
At the risk of stating the obvious, gosviani should be sent to worlds coz:
She looks like a sweet, hard working teenager. Not overly aggressive like a few other russian wonderbabies, which is lovely to see
She is coached by Urmy and therefore has an artistik and dramatik flair
Her short programme is soft and lovely, skated to tinkly winkly piano muzak by Joe Hisaishi
Her long programme is also lovely, skated to dramatik violin concerto (gizmos music a few years back)
She has a cool long and windy (if a little wonky) entry to the flip jump
She went from being the third alternate for Russian Nationals to the third best senior lady!
She achieved the worlds minimum TES (admittedly a little by the skin of her teeth)
(most importantly) she will spare us the sight of morozov and leonovas AWFUL programs this season and her tragic splatting and crawling over the ice (I do like leonova, but ....)
Apologies for my gushing over gosviani. Me loves the underdog skating lights out!!!
Julia's FS is now up, 3 mistakes double hand down on 3lz, turn out on 3f and fall on 3S http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g23ajqHWwBI
F/M, Russian Junior Pairs Champs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7F1j9orA-Q
Russian junior team: http://fsrussia.ru/news/442_sostav-sbornoj-na-chempionat-mira-sredi-yuniorov/
Ladies - Elena Radionova, Julia Lipnitskaya, Anna Pogorilaya
Men - Mikhail Kolyada, Alexander Samarin
Pairs - Lina Fedorova/Maxim Miroshkin, Evgenia Tarasova/Vladimir Morozov, Kamilla Gainetdinova/Ivan Bich
Ice dance - Valeria Zenkova/Valery Sinitsin, Evgenia Kosygina/Nikolai Moroshkin, Alexandra Stepanova/Ivan Bukin
ETA Just saw it was posted already in the Kiss and Cry
It's fine to cross-post this information here.
This means that Maxim Kovtun will very likely be competing at Worlds?
I guess this means that Yankovskaia and Mozgov have been thrown away? Time to change coaches...
Too bad for Vigalova/Zakroev . Also Yanovskaya/Mozgov seem to be dumped.
I don't think Yanovskaya/Mozgov have been dumped...they won the FS at junior nationals with the highest TES and PCS. It looks like they just made mistakes technically in the SD (levels?) and couldn't make up the necessary ground.
As he is not listed on the Junior Worlds presumably yes. Well there is the answer if Menshov will receive any chance to make the team by skating well at Russian Cup. Not even if he lands three quads and I guess everybody from the officials knew it beforehand.
But it is unfair if one skater competed in Juniors and the other one in Senior GP against reigning senior world medalists, i.e. if you compare results that are not suited for such comparison. And it is in particular unfair if the Fed on one case takes results (Kovtun Menshov) but in the other case they don`t though skaters competed at the same event (skate off between Gachinski Menshov) in case Kovtun skated badly at Euros. I also dont see the spot of Kovtun at Worlds justified just because of his admittedly great free skate at Euros it`s not as if hed beaten Menshov there, he simply got a possibility to shine and took advantage of it, while another skater didn`t receive this possibility though he really deserved it. Actually there should be a skate of between Kovtun and Menshov at Russian Cup or right before Worlds - then both skaters would have equal chances to get that spot.
What I find in particular annoying about the whole affair is that Russian Fed just so obviously didnt want to send Menshov to any major senior events due to his age and their bad situation with regards to possible lack upcoming skaters after 2014. No matter what results Menshov produces, RF will find ways to send someone else. Let`s assume Kovtun goes to Worlds and manages to place top 10. Guess what will happen next year at Nats even in case Menshov would beat Kovtun again and even if he would have had better results in the senior GP, RF will again send Kovtun arguing he had better results at major ISU championships last year. Anyone taking the risk to bet with me here?
Well, if an employer pays you based on employment contract, is he entitled to give his employees discriminatory treatment? I dont think that financial support of skaters entitles the Fed to act completely randomly. It`s not like they without having any benefit of it support the skaters` personal hobby, but their job. Skaters usually sacrifice a lot for it (e.g. better education, job opportunities, making some good money from normal work when they are young and last but not least their health is quite often at stake) and if they work hard enough to earn a spot on the team, then the fed should send them, no matter if it does not fit their personal preferences or not. In addition its not a one way train, as far as I know Russian fed takes some amount of the price money the skaters earn at least this was the case a couple of years ago. Its not like the pay for training without having an own interest in the success of their skaters.
I too want Gosviani at Worlds - and that comes from a big fan of Ksenia Makarova (who might have a better chance as a substitute in case Govsiani would not go). I really think Nicole Gosviani worked well to deserve that spot.
Wow, this girl looks really mature on the ice for being a junior. How old is she?
Maria Sotskova's date of birth is April 2, 2000, so she is 12 right now.
Re-posting this useful list and hanca's link from the Russian Nationals thread in Kiss and Cry:
(Note: Birthdates at this link are listed day/month/year.)
Sylvia - thank you for the info!
Can't believe Sotskova is only 12!
Now its all about kovtun and its too bad that menshov is pushed aside.
There is no way makarova with her triple jump would be a good substitute.
So you want Menshov to be sent ahead of Voronov, who comfortable beat him at the nationals ??? Kovtun did well at the JGPF and did very well at the Europeans against a very good field by finishing 5th. So Kovtun has shown to be more than capable of doing well on a senior stage. Something Menshov failed to do when he was the Russian champion, and had a disaster at the europeans. The point being, Menshov had the opportunity and he failed before, as for russian nationals, he narrowly won the bronze.
RSF had set up its rule and it followed the rules, just because you didn't happen to read them does not mean that it did not exist. The rules said the best two athletes at the national (plushy and Voronov) and third spot would be decided by the coaches council. The coaches council narrowly decided to give the spot to Kovtun. These rules have always existed and Russians have used this rule before, example sending Leonova over Petushkova to the europeans few years ago. If you like to follow national results so closely, how are expecting Makarova as a substitute if Gosiani would not go. Should the opportunity not go to Leonova, who beat Makarova ...
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