From Russia With Love - Winter 2012/13

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, Nov 27, 2012.

  1. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    There's a difference between going along with it when your fans call you by your diminutive and actually liking it when they do. :shuffle:

    Beyond that, some people don't like the presumed familiarity of calling athletes one does not know personally by their first names (never mind nicknames or diminutives), but that's just the way it goes sometimes.
  2. love_skate2011

    love_skate2011 Well-Known Member

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  3. equatorial

    equatorial New Member

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  4. love_skate2011

    love_skate2011 Well-Known Member

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    with the depth in Russian ladies by 2014 and beyond she has a much higher chance
    if she will compete for Georgia a chance to go to the Olympics and World Championships
  5. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    I thought patrynomics were used formally, the equivalent of referring to John Nicks as "Mr. Nicks."
  6. Eislauffan

    Eislauffan Well-Known Member

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    Yes, patronymics are a respectful way to address someone or refer to someone. For example, Plushenkos coach is usually addressed and referred to by his students, Federation officials and also journalists as "Alexei Nikolaevitch".
  7. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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    I agree. The question is whether she could stay and train in Russia with Urmanov though. Gedevanishvilli had some problems a few years ago. Also, if she competed for Georgia, maybe she would have to start paying for her lessons? Whereas I read somewhere that Russian athletes have it free (not sure if it is true). I doubt that Russian Federation would be paying for her training if she didn't represent them.

    Anyway, too late now. She competed internationally, which means that she would have to sit out 2 years. And maybe Russian Federation would refuse to release her, as they did with Iliuchechkina.
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2013
  8. dinakt

    dinakt Well-Known Member

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    "Zhenia" is not formal, but not very casual- diminutive, either. Closer to "Rick" than "Ricky". While familiar, it does not sound offensive. With the name like "Evgeny" it's tricky anyway.
    "Evgeny! Stay home and recover!" sounds quite 19th- century.
    "Plushenko! Stay home and recover! " sounds wrong, almost tongue- and - cheek.
    The bigger fans we are of somebody, the more we are inclined to use informal names. On Yagudin fan sites, he is "Lyosha" quite a bit; as well as Alexei and Yags. Plushenko can be Evgenij or Zhenia with no offence given.
  9. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    Were I to meet him, I think I would become tongue-tied, stumble around, and finally murmur out, "Sir."
  10. dinakt

    dinakt Well-Known Member

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    Totally. And it would never occur to me to refer to Tatiana Anatol'evna Tarasova as "Tanya". Would be unthinkable. Tricky, that name business:)
  11. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    Do people introduce themselves by their patrynomics? I'm wondering how you'd otherwise know what a person's father's name is. If I bumped into her in an arena and wanted to greet her, the best I could come up with is "Madame Tarasova." I'd never remember her father's name under pressure, Tarasova is her birth name, not her husband's name, and somehow "Miss" or "Ms." Tarasova doesn't feel right at all.
  12. peibeck

    peibeck Counting down the days 'til Skate America

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    :confused: To me it sounds like Gorshkov is denying the rumor Plushenko would compete at Worlds?

    Which, if this is accurate, does not sound like he'd be coming to Canada for Worlds, where practices start on March 10th. Correct?

    Hopefully he can take it easy enough on the training to stay healthy through next season.
  13. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Yes. Unless they implode, Sotnikova and Tuktamysheva should be able to place 6th and 7th easily to earn 3 spots.

    Leonova is done anyway. Sot, Tuk and Lipnitskaya should dominate Russian skating for years to come and then you have Radionova coming up as well.

    So they might as well send Gosviani who has proven her worth now.

    I mean given Gosviani's very strong basics if she skated two clean programs at Worlds (very big if, I know), it would be possible for her to medal.

    At Euros, she didn't skate in the final group, didn't have a perfect FS and still got high 6s on the PCS.
  14. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    WHen will they announce who will go to worlds? Will it depend on another skateoff or monitoring session close to worlds?
  15. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    After the Russian Cup where I assume that the skaters considered will compete.
  16. Nomad

    Nomad Well-Known Member

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    I would hate to be a Russian skater, never knowing where the goal posts were from one year to the next.
  17. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    Goal posts? Did you say goal posts? :blah:

    Goal posts are for football players, not figure skaters. ;)
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2013
  18. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    What do you mean? The selection criteria for Euros wasn't a secret and from what I know it's been announced well in advance that Worlds team will be decided after the next Russian Cup event where skaters will be monitored. And how is it different from any other federation?
  19. TAHbKA

    TAHbKA Well-Known Member

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    Actually I was surprised how easy going Mishin is. Especially if you are a cute enough female and his pupil had a good skate. He'll behave like a favourite grandpa
  20. VarBar

    VarBar Well-Known Member

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    I don't quite understand what the purpose of the Russian Cup Final is. I've read that Menshov won this competition five times but was never sent to Worlds. Piseev said that the Federation would assess, after the Russian Cup Final, all the results of the skaters under consideration from the current season and would decide accordingly but do the skaters know how much the results from the Russian Cup will weigh in the assessment of the Federation, as opposed to the results from other competitions such as GP, JGP, Nationals and Euros? I mean would Menshov win the Russian Cup again, would his win be viewed as a better result than Kovtun's 5th place overall at Europeans? The Federation can't assess the results of the likes of Menshov and Gachinski at the 2013 European Championships since they didn't even compete there, can they?
  21. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Well yeah but you can't have it both ways. Either you only take Nationals' results into consideration or you leave a door open and then that creates a situation of uncertainty.
  22. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    I don't qualify as a cute enough female, though ;)
  23. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    I think I know what you mean and Japan had something like this in 2006. It was a points system with skaters receiving different points for different national and international results. They knew exactly how much everything was weighted. Miki Ando finished off the podium at Nationals, but got just the placement she needed to get the points to go to the Olympics, which everyone thought was rigged and was so awful and unfair to Nakano. France had something similar too, and gave Contesti the spot based on the criteria, but Dambier sued and won the Olympic spot. So someone will always end up unhappy.

    I do agree that it must be frustrating for someone like Menshov. The federation's criteria are loose in the sense that it's "let's see how you skate at the Russian Cup Final and we'll see how we like it/you compared to how we liked Kovtun at Euros." It isn't like "win the Russian Cup Final with xxx TES score and you get Worlds."

    The goalpost is, and always has been, win stuff internationally and the federation will give you additional chances for Worlds even if you screw up Nationals (which isn't necessarily a bad idea or unfair).
  24. MarieM

    MarieM Well-Known Member

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    France hasn't got something similar, there are no points given whatsoever ! AT ALL. We have test skates. Those test are made to select whoever is in favor with the FFSG at the appointed moment, especially if you're a pupil of dear dear Annick. Or whoever can serve better the president's goal meaning his reelection at the head of the FFSG. Usually, the selection is right in the end. But it's quite hard for the skaters who achieved a good placement at nationals and end up nowhere.
  25. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    I know it's usually not points, but I thought in 2006 only there was something like that - maybe not points, but some kind of criteria that was set up with more detail than usual for France, but still didn't work out for the athletes. I could be misremembering completely, though. :lol:

    ETA: For those with access to the archives, here is a post about it. The two best CoP scores for each guy would be combined and the top 3 got Euros, which would be a qualifier to the Olympics. Drama ensued because Contesti had beaten Dambier in all or most of their head to heads, but did not get named to the Euro team based on the criteria, so the federation, of course, mandated a test skate anyway. :rofl:
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2013
  26. Domshabfan

    Domshabfan Well-Known Member

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    Importance of Russia cup only comes after the Europeans. For instance last year at Russian Nationals Menshov was 7th, so Russia selected their 3 athletes based on the nationals result for the Europeans 1) Plushenko (gold at Europeans) 2) Gachinski (2nd at Europeans) 3) Voronov (10th at Europeans ). this result was good enough for Gachinski and 10th was deemed good enough for the europeans, remember Menshov winning the Russia cup is not just the criteria, but how he wins it also important. When Menshov won the russian national championships, he was sent to the europeans where he bombed the SP and lost to very young Gachinski. I am also shocked at what people are now suggesting, they want to sent Menshov ahead of Voronov to the worlds, remember Voronov beat Menshov very, very comfortably. Menshov was only very able to beat Gashinski and Kovtun.


    Russians have used this method of selection for championships for few years, remember when Leonova was given the second european spot over Petushkova in 2009, even though Petushkova beaten her at the nationals. Leonova had lost to Gerboldt (3rd at Nationals ) and Petushkova (4th at nationals), Federation but decided to pass Petushkova and gave the spot to relative youngster with promise, Leonova. Leonova finsihed 4th at the Europeans and won the world juniors to win the lone spot for Russia at the worlds. Was it not unfair to Petushkova :)scream:). They have used this system very effective to monitor the progress of young athletes. In a country like Russia, where federation is paying for everything, I think rules to monitor the athletes is very fair. I would rather see this than the performance of Alissa at the last world championships or Flatt a year before that.
    Moka-Ananas and (deleted member) like this.
  27. Glacier cat

    Glacier cat New Member

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    According to this article, Plushy anyway can not compete in March since he's going to have artificial disc replacement surgery tomorrow in Tel Aviv. Mishin told Plushy will be able to swim and walk four weeks after surgery. I wish him successful surgery and complete healing.

    http://ria.ru/sport/20130130/920530714.html
    Buzz and (deleted member) like this.
  28. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

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  29. peibeck

    peibeck Counting down the days 'til Skate America

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    Tomorrow? I guess it is just as well that he not do the Art on Ice shows, but I feel badly for his fans that were hoping to see him.

    I wish him luck with his surgery too.
  30. VarBar

    VarBar Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. And if you think that Federation officials and other people involved in the Russian figure skating such as Averbukh defended the Fed's decision to send Kovtun to Euros over Menshov by saying something along the lines of "Menshov? Oh, he is such a nice skater but let's face it, he isn't getting any younger", just give Menshov a good reason why he should compete at the Russian Cup Final and fight for gold there other than possibly the prize money. I mean would he suddenly get a few years younger if he won the RCF?;)

    Urmanov was recently asked by a reporter which one singles skater from Russia he thought would most deserve to go to the World Championships and Urmanov replied "Today - only Maxim Kovtun."

    http://fcp-press.ru/interview/p2_articleid/6348

    Isn't it interesting that while Voronov is the national silver medalist and Kovtun finished off the podium in Sochi, Urmanov isn't even considering Sergei as a possible option?
  31. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Can Kovtun got to JW and senior Worlds and does the fed encourage this? Or will he do one and not the other, and if so, which one? He did very well at Euros despite Zayaking, and his PCS were quite good too! I agree he is the future of Russian men's skating and should cause a buzz in Sochi next season, but I just worry about him getting burnt out if he does JW and senior Worlds after already competing at Euros. Maybe Kovtun and his coaches will be given the choice to decide which competition he goes to?

    Also I hope Nikol goes to Worlds, she was really lovely at Euros and if Leonova cannot skate well now, I don't see why Gosviani shouldn't be sent to the Worlds as well. The fed will be relying on Liza and Adelina to get 3 spots so it's not like Nikol is in a really high pressure situation anyhow.
  32. allezfred

    allezfred Prick Admin Staff Member

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    That's not correct. :p
  33. VarBar

    VarBar Well-Known Member

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    If Menshov wins the Russian Cup with poor skates, it means his rivals were disastrous and Konstantin should still prevail, no?:confused:

    When Menshov won Nationals a couple of years ago, Gachinski bombed his SP there, so the two were even at the end of the day.;)

    Yeah but if I were a skater, I'd much prefer a selection system which is transparent and predictable to any other system because I would know what to expect from my Federation. But so long as the Federation foots my training bill, it's pretty obvious I am hardly in a position to choose at all. End of story.:slinkaway
  34. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    It's all because Urmanov is Mad that sergei left him and wants to destroy him!!! Lol no but voronov was at 2012 worlds too and he bombed too. Gachinski gets the blame with reason because he was world bronze medalist but voronov was there too because of gachinski. so kovtun is the best shot and then maybe menshov and after that no one is age eligible because gachinski is out to recover.
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2013
  35. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Very good point. It's a trade off. The rules are less clear for the athletes but since you're constantly monitored you avoid a situation when somebody has one good skate at Nationals but is just not in good enough shape immediately preceding a major event.
  36. Domshabfan

    Domshabfan Well-Known Member

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    Not only athletes compete at Russia cup, it is not Russia Nationals part 2... so this year likes of Kovtun won't compete. Last year Gachinski did not have to compete at the Russia cup event due to his results at the Europeans. Russia cup is one of many events they look at while selecting the team for worlds. A very strong performance at Europeans always helps you cause for the worlds, a good showing at Junior worlds can help your chances as well. Russia cup is also used to see who is best prepared at the moment.

    As for Urmanov's comments, the same thing can be said about Morosov's comments. Kovtun was an athlete who was thrown out of Morosov's group and now he has proved himself with a Junior Grand Prix final gold and a 5th position at the Europeans.
  37. nuge

    nuge Well-Known Member

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    Thankyou .Nice to see Bobrova strutting her stuff shame about the fall and the last lift looked a little awkward.A nice change for them .:)
  38. bek

    bek Guest

    Yes, but one only has to look at the scoring of US Nationals, and wonder how transparent the US system really is. Seems to me that the US judges do their best to ensure they get the teams they want. (Look at the ladies scoring)

    At least the Russians are honest that they are taking more competitions into account, and as mentioned they pay for training.
  39. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Any word on Gosviani? I love her skating and thought she was great at Euros. So hope she goes to Worlds!
  40. Maofan7

    Maofan7 Away

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    Apologies if this has already been posted - new article entitled: 'Russia’s figure skating team comes up on top at 2013 championships'