Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, Nov 27, 2012.
Hope Alena used her break period well and comes back to the Russian cup final well.
so Kovtun is both going to Junior Worlds and Worlds ?
isn't that a bit too much ?
If they want they can send him to Worlds, not sure if he can merit a Top 10
but juniors I think they can earn 3 spots anyways with Samarin and Petrov
The Russian fed had Leonova do euros jr worlds and sr worlds and they got all that they wanted from that situation and they could try that with kovtun.
So are the RFSF going to still have the skateoff between Gachinski and Menshov (with Kovtun's Euros result considered) to decide who gets the Worlds spot? Fifth is good but I was a little surprised at Kovtun's PCS. He did beat Voronov which was well done.
I still think Menshov earned the spot.
So far this season:
Skate America Senior Ladies 7 Alena LEONOVA RUS 153.49
Rostelecom Cup Senior Ladies 6 Alena LEONOVA RUS 157.27
European Championships Senior Ladies 6 Nikol GOSVIANI RUS 154.41
Russian Nationals Senior Ladies 6 Nikol Gosviani
Russian Nationals Senior Ladies 7 Alena Leonova - 169.64
Leonova came is as the reigning World Silver medalist, and I don't see a lot of difference in international scores between hers and Gosviani, who went into Euros as a Russia #3 unknown. I think it's pretty remarkable that in a rushed Junior international she made the TES SP minimum and barely missed it at Euros, and when the heat was on, she made the FS minimum, with a couple of points to spare. She shook out some nerves and went out and competed like she wanted it. I'm not sure the same can be said for Leonova, who's been struggling so far this season.
Gosviani really impressed me - I wonder what kind of shape Leonova is in?
The scores for leonova vs gosviani represent gosviani a her best and leonova at her worst. Now no one knows if she's still at her worst but her at her worst is basically equal to gosviani at her best. So who is chosen? The person at their best probably. If the are equal at the skateoff like they were basically a Russian nationals then it's all gosviani for worlds probably.
The economic collapse in Russia in the 1990's kept children from taking up the sport -- fewer rinks, fewer coaches, few or no subsidies, little disposable income, etc.
Remember, the men in the 21-25-year-old age group were born at the same time as women like Ksenia Doronina and Nina Petushkova, who were quickly surpassed on the domestic level by the much younger rivals like Adelina Sotnikova and Elizaveta Tuktamysheva. Since female singles skaters tend to reach their peak at a younger age than their male counterparts, we saw the long-term consequences of the economic collapse most markedly in the Ladies' division earlier than we did in the Men's.
So true if a great young talent was born in 1990 they would have had to go through major economic and social changes for like 10 years. People were leaving until 1999 in big numbers. I was going through novice and jr ice dance in us nationals and I saw a Russian team and then read about them and the parents left in 1998. Then you have the Majorovs and rogozines of other countries. Also the dance team I'm talking about does not involve the Ponimarenko son!
Its pretty harsh to argue Gosviani at her best is equal to Leonova at her worst. Looking at scores this is also due to the reason that Gosviani had zero reputation when going into Euros being her first major senior assignment and skating well there while Leonova when skating at her worst was big time held up in PCS by Russian Fed at Nationals. I dont think judges at an international event will be as generous to Leonova at Worlds, even if she is the reigning Vice World Champion. On the other hand international judges now took notice of Gosviani, so she might get even better scores at Worlds in certain areas when skating equally well.
But I can see how Russian Fed is in big dilemma now! They probably even hoped that Govsiani would not reach TES for Worlds!
I agree.. However, I don't think the likelhood of Leonova getting much higher PCS should be discounted. This being said Alena is also going to be Russia's no 3, and so her PCS will have less pushing... Personally I think they need to do a test skate, and if both skated equally well I really would go with Leonova for her experience. But I think if Leonova is still not going well they need to go with Gosviani.
Any idea when Russia will announce its world 2013 team?
I don't think they were hoping gosviani would not get he world minimum. They did a lot to get her to euros. Unless they were just hoping to leonova a forced rest period as that would help with all her problems this season.
That's what the scores posted inidcated-that leonova and gosviani were equal given gosviani is a no name basically - maybe her scores would go up if she did go to worlds and did well.
According to Govshkov, they will announce it after Cup of Russia which will take place this January. Also, Plushenko will possibly be competing at Worlds.
Plushenko is going to treat his back and start training on March 1st.
He needs rest and recovery. I hope Kovtun goes instead.
Looks like the Russian up final is feb 16-19th?
INSTANT fan of Gosviani. I'm a sucker for sophisticated, balletic, elegant skaters.
Yana, please tie him down.
Ugh... I hate Gosviani's jump technique
Good for her that she's proving herself. She went in as an alternate to Russian nats IIRC
Third alternate! They have only limited number of competitors at Russian nationals (only 18 ladies can compete) and she was 21st in the standings. If three ladies didn't withdraw, she wouldn't be even allowed to compete at their nationals, and then she wouldn't go to Europeans. It is crazy!
He is nuts. If he wants to compete in Sochi, he needs to be healthy, and not make things worse.
Why does Plushy start to train on March 1st while there is no competitions left? Rest of the skaters will have some rest, too. Couldn't he just wait until the beginning of summer for example?
Actually, it may be an idea...if he's easing into it. The idea may be to get him started early and slowly, get the program work done early so that he's got it in case of injury, and then just work towards next season.
But this is Plushy we're talking about...I don't know if he knows the word "slowly".
I think that is the plan if he is choosing to go to Worlds; what was previously a definite "no" seems to now be a "maybe"
He's got a substantial tour scheduled for after Worlds, and I'd expect him to do at least light training leading up to it.
Zhenya, you've already proven you're a warrior by coming back to win your 10th Russian National Title in December (no other returning skaters can say the same thing, instead they were sidelined by injury; e.g. Evan Lysacek & Johnny Weir). And then you too at Euros.
Enough is enough, listen to your body & doctors, spinal surgery is nothing to mess with. Take time off, recuperate, maybe do some light show skating, but save your body for your *final* competitive year, the Winter Olympics in your home country for the first time in history! Next year is thee most important year, not this one, you've got nothing to prove, your record says it all, you are a LEGEND. 'nuff said
June is early enough to start preparing your new programs for next season.. Until then chill out...
Zhenya? Wow, it must be nice to be on a personal, first-name basis with the man who is Plushenko
Oh, and a bit addicted to colored fonts and smilies, aren't we? Nothing a little ECT wouldn't cure. Perhaps sticking a fork into an outlet or something.
You have something to add to this Russian thread about Russian skaters, Kasey, or you just going to continue to b*tch about me.
Now back to "From Russia With Love Winter 2012/13". GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO RUSSIAN TEAM, WIN THE TEAM GOLD AT SOCHI!!!
I'm pretty much with Menshov; I don't think the Russian cup final is going to mean squat, nor is any test skates they hold. Let's face it, if Plushenko feels up to going to Worlds and wants to, he will; if not, it will be Kovtun. I would be totally shocked if any of the other skaters in the mix (Menshov, Voronov or Gachinski) is even a slight consideration.
Unfortunately, I agree with him too; the Russian fed has picked their guy and I doubt they would change their minds even if one of the other three turned up at Russian Cup with four quads. It's sad for Menshov because he certainly deserved to go. I certainly don't mind that Gachinski won't skate the rest of the season; getting this leg problem solved is the most important.
I wonder who will go to WTT? Perhaps the Russian fed could send Menshov there? It wouldn't be the same as the place he earned, of course, but it would be still be something.
I am glad Kovtun was the highest placed Russian man at Euros. It not only vindicates the decision to send him instead of Menshov (and shut everyone up), it now solidifies his trip to Worlds (Plush really should rest - he isn't going to make top 2 at Worlds anyways and Kovtun has nearly as good a chance at making top 12).
Actually, he prefers it when people call him Evgeni Viktorovich.
Which was my point. To refer to someone by a familiar name is, well let's just say, obnoxious and rude. Makes one wish for the days that such nicknames would warrant a strange site-wide blip that would change such name into the phrase IamapretentiousRussianwannabetwit. Shame that glitch was fixed...
Wouldn't Kovtun (or whomever) have to be top 10 to earn two slots for Russian men next year?
I think you can safely bet your money on Kovtun going to Worlds. Tarasova has been justified, his FS performance was outstanding jump-wise. He has the momentum this season.
As far as Ladies go, I really hope Gosviani gets sent. Her performance at Euros was very respectable and she has earned her spot, IMO.
C'mon! When some friends of mine met him, they called him Plushy and they still got autographs, pictures and stuff. I called him Zhenya and Evgeni too, how should I call a guy who is my age, Plushenko or not Plushenko?
Better than anything Leonova has done since 2012 Worlds, and that's 5 (sucky) competitions ago.
My view is, clearly neither Gosviani nor Leonova are going to be counted on to help with keeping 3 spots for Sochi, so might as well go with the one who earned her trip.
Isn't calling Plushenko "Zhenya" the same as calling Gordeeva "Katia" or Zhulin "Sasha," which are quite common here?
I am sure Kovtun is going to worlds. If Plushenko withdraws after the SP again, it would be a complete waste of the one spot.
Leonova has a higher world standing and will skate in the last SP groups. I would do a test skate and consider sending her only if she skates well.
If I'm not mistaken, Gordeeva actually uses the diminutive "Katia" in her public life, in the same way that John Garvin Weir-Voronov uses the diminutive "Johnny." I'm not sure about Zhulin, but I don't believe he uses the diminutive "Sasha" in the same way.
Generally speaking, friends and acquaintances call each other by first names and patronymics ("Evgeni Viktorovich"). Very close friends and relatives use diminutives ("Zhenya"). To call someone you have never met or scarcely know "Zhenya" when he doesn't call himself that in his public life would be akin to calling Stephen Carriere "Stevie."
Or Richard Dornbush "Ricky." From what I've read, Plushenko does not mind when he's called Zhenya by the fans, so it is interesting how so many posters get offended by it.
Separate names with a comma.