From Russia With Love - Spring into Summer 2013

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, Mar 17, 2013.

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  1. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    it is not in dispute that I/K had one of the most stunning technical collapses in levels from euros to worlds? So maybe he should blame himself or I/K for their stunning fall to where almost every team they beat in EUros beat them in worlds. So what happened? How did almost every team that I/K beat in Euros beat them at worlds?
     
  2. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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    That's easy - they were stunning at Europeans, quick and sharp, and did not deliver at worlds. Some elements were wobbly, and not held long enough...
     
  3. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    I thought because that interview was posted now it had to do with worlds but it had to do with russian nationals

    It's terrible that I/K couldn't keep up their EUros or even russian nationals form and just were terrible at euros getting like 20th place in TES or something.
     
  4. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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    It is not that unusual. Look at Valentina Marchei - at Europeans she was 4th, at worlds she was 18. Akiko Suzuki - 2nd at 4CC, 12th at worlds. And there are others...
     
  5. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    Surely if it was a corrupt tech panel, they didn't have to dump I/K below the Shibs: they could have been more subtle about it.

    If she were a pairs or dance skater, yes. Otherwise, for singles to compete in international competition, they can't have competed for another country within 12 months of 1 July for the season, and for championships, within 18 months of 1 July of the season. She'll meet these criteria in as of 1 July 2014 and will be able to compete for Israel in the 2014-15 season.

    If I now understand the issues around Shelepen's change, the objection is that she was given expedited citizenship and exempted from the pre-citizenship residency requirements, like Bycheno, but unlike all of the other skaters who represented Israel (except for non-Israeli partners). And if I understand the requirements for Ireland, my friend who got his Irish passport through his Irish-born mother, who came to the US at two years old and never went back, could train in NJ and compete for Ireland, but the one who did through three of four grandparents would have to live in Ireland for a year before he could. Check.
     
  6. morqet

    morqet Well-Known Member

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    The interview is from January, he was talking about Russian nationals.
     
  7. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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  8. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    I support the idea hat skaters should be able to earn their own spots at Worlds / Olys via a good placement from the previous 12 months (say, from last Worlds all the way up to current season's 4CCs / Euros).

    Nationals can be used to determine non-Worlds / Olys assignments which are the avenue for skaters to qualify to Worlds; Nationals placements can be used to determine funding envelops and potiking plans, plus winning / medals at Nationals helps with momentum / reputation. So National Federations can still have their grip over skaters.

    I wasn't prepared to see only 2 Russian ladies go to Sochi, but even if they regain the 3rd spot next year, at least one of Sot, Tuk, Lip and Rad (plus many more juniors coming up) will have to miss Worlds 2015. It is going to be as sad as seeing Nakano miss Vancouver by less than half a point when she was top 5 in the world 3 years in a row.

    Whether a skater makes or misses Worlds / Olympics should not be affected by how his teammate skates. For example, Brooklee Han beats Zhang Kexin at Worlds 2013 yet Han still hasn't had a spot for Olympics yet but Zhang's spot is somewhat safe just because Li Zijun skated well.
     
  9. allezfred

    allezfred Mince Pie Depriving Admin Staff Member

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    I can tell you that many countries were struggling before and the current situation has only made things more difficult. Many federations receive funding from their NOCs and/or governments dependent on sending skaters to Euros/4CC/Worlds and this being cut. It probably wouldn't be clear to me either I suppose if I lived in a country that isn't affected by the new rules.

    The end result will be the same - US, Canada, Japan, Russia, France and a limited number of skaters from certain other countries competing at Worlds. Maybe we could call it the Six Nations instead of Worlds? :p

    Anyway, back to Russian skating news. :saint:
     
  10. Tak

    Tak Well-Known Member

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    The way I understood it, they came to him over the summer and basically stayed the summer into the fall. But then they went back to Russia and their old coach. Did they come back to Igor during the season? I didnt think so.

    IMO FWIR they did look a lot sharper at their first GP, which was very early in the season and was when they were fresh off their training with Igor. If they had stayed with him all year, I think they would have finished a lot higher than they did. So if they are going full time to Igor, I expect to see a big improvement in them for next year. But if they are only extending this joint-coaching thing another year, I have my doubts they will even make the team next year. It's a shame if that happens, because I think they could be a lot better than they are now.

    About Gorshkov - I dont think he is any kind of good coach. Who were his last promising students? Dom-Shab before the injury? And didnt they blame him for that? I remember reading how he told them to go to Euros and skate even though Max was hardly healed. Since they left him, I dont think any of his skaters have looked good. His junior couple, K/M, I liked at their debut - but that was about 3 years ago and frankly they havent improved much since. This year they have looked better and making JGPF a huge step up, although they didnt make the JWorlds team. But I think that improvement is from working with Sphilband, not Gorshkov. They trained all summer in Detroit, and again , looked sharper earlier in the season.

    Gorshkov IMO is no better than Kustarova as a coach. All their students should :scream:
     
  11. Eislauffan

    Eislauffan Well-Known Member

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    I don't quite agree. First of all, Gorshkov's junior team Kosygina/Moroshkin was at Junior Worlds. They finished sixth with a strong free dance. I think that Gorshkov is actually a good technical coach. But maybe the programs suffered since his long-time choreographer, former dancer Sergei Petukhov, has left the group at the end of last season and now is in Zhulin's group. Riazanova/Tkachenko had some disappointing low levels in their Grand Prix events Skate Canada (level 1 and 2 for the Polka and level 2 for the footwork in the free dance and three level 2 elements in the SD and level 2 footwork in the FD at Trophee Bompard). Only at Russian Nationals they got a level four for everything (levels were handed out like Christmas presents and it was his birthday, too). So Igor Shpilband didn't get their levels up even for the Grand Prix.
    I actually liked Kosygina/Moroshkin's programs this season (more than last season). I liked Alexei Gorshkov's students a lot, they usually have good technique and interesting programs. Some of his top students were Natalia Romaniuta/ Daniil Barantsev, Albena Denkova/Maxim Staviski and then of course Domnina/Shabalin (who left him because the Russian Fed told them to go to Linitchuk). A coach also has to do with the material he got.
     
  12. poths

    poths Well-Known Member

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    Kexin was 7th at worlds in 2012 so a bad example IMO.

    Ladies like Han Lee, McCorkell and Popova who make worlds with ease over ladies like Korobeynikova, Gosviani, GAO, Zawadski is more irritating to me. The first two groups at worlds were essentially a regular European champs. I'd rather see the best of the best, not just the best of OES.
     
  13. TAHbKA

    TAHbKA Well-Known Member

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    The first link- the journalist is a known yellow press representative, half of his interviwes happen in his head only. sime of the skaters are strongly advised not to speak to him.
     
  14. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    Macassar88, that first link has pornographic ads. If you feel compelled to link to such a webpage, please put a warning in your post.

    If you really want a translation, you can run the article through Google Translate and figure out what it says on your own.
     
  15. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry - didn't realize that. I have a really strong ad block.
    And I did put it through google translate. But it isn't a very good translation.
     
  16. viviabond

    viviabond New Member

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  17. dinakt

    dinakt Well-Known Member

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  18. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

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    Ugh - that means that they're going to get Morozov choreography... Also, I don't like the idea of them training with Mozer since she'll be completely focused on Volosozhar and Trankov since they're basically gold medal favorites. Will she have enough time to teach them? I'd much rather they had gone with Moskvina or Vasiliev.
     
  19. love_skate2011

    love_skate2011 Well-Known Member

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    me to :(
    they should have gone to Moskvina, after 2014 when K/S retire
    they will have her full attention
     
  20. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    They should have gone to Pavlova! She's the best pair coach in terms of giving her teams the overall package and interesting programs.

    You mad? Han and Popova skated mostly clean, strong programs.
     
  21. viviabond

    viviabond New Member

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    Me too! Moskvina team's program fits them very well
     
  22. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    It can't hurt being near v/t for b/l. Hopefully volosozhar could be an inspiration to jump better for bazarova! Just thinking of volo possibly making bazarova better by proximity lol is something!
     
  23. Iceman

    Iceman Well-Known Member

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  24. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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    I wonder what they mean when they say that Bazarova needs to fully restore (google translation, so it may not be even there!). I thought that it was Larionov who had broken his wrist. Does Bazarova have some ongoing health problems or injuries?
     
  25. Kasey

    Kasey Loving on babies!

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    Interesting, that someone thinks that Mozer/Morosov wouldn't be good choices for B/L because of all the attention being focused on V/T; yet, think that Moskvina would be a good choice....ummm, doesn't Moskvina still have K/S, and wouldn't there be an issue of having enough time and attention to focus on two top groups there just as well as there would be with Mozer and crew?
     
  26. robinhood

    robinhood Active Member

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    I recall listening to Maxim Trankov saying he would like another top pair involved in their training team...so I think B/L are very much welcomed
    Dunno if Vera's jump problems can be solved as she hasn't got any natural spring to her jumps, but they both can work with their on ice connection development and having V/T there will help them a lot, as it is truly their forte and one of the best at it atm
     
  27. quiqie

    quiqie Well-Known Member

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  28. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

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    The reasoning for me not wanting moser to coach them isn't that moser is a bad coach. It's just that her priorities are elsewhere. And Morozov is a god awful choreographer.
    Whereas Moskvina is a good coach and would focus more on BL because they'd be her top team. And she isn't an awful choreographer.
     
  29. rfisher

    rfisher Satisfied skating fan

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    She's also 70 something and has said she's considering retirement. Plus, her teams have crashy split twists and B/L's is a thing of beauty. :drama:
     
  30. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

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    B/L would be her top team? Not sure where you get that from.

    Moser can't be in two placed at once so with V/T being her #1 and going into the Olympic season, B/L will get what's left. It reminds me of Ingo coaching S/S and V/M, one team isn't going to get the undivided attention they deserve but in reality they didn't have many options. All they can really hope for is great choreography (Moser can't give them that) and someone to help with technique and they had that before and it didn't help.

    ETA: Moskvina doesn't choreograph for her team and it has been stated several times she is retiring after 2014.
     
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