From Russia With Love - Spring into Summer 2013

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, Mar 17, 2013.

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  1. babayaga

    babayaga Active Member

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    To be fair, if Kovtun didn't go to Euros and Worlds, he would have gone to Junior Worlds and probably got a lot of points there.
     
  2. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I <3 Kozuka

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    Do you mean for WTT? The Russian team was required to pick two of Kovtun, Menshov, and Voronov. JGP scores don't count unless there aren't two GP placements earning point, and Menshov and Voronov had the two highest GP points.


    Kovtun earned 551 at Euros: the max he could have won for JWC is 500.

    Had he skated JWC, none of his scores would have counted for WTT for Russia, because the points earned by the WC entry would have been used, then the top Euros score(s) beforeany JWC points are considered. Unless the Russian Man at WC missed the FS and the Russian Euros Men had zero or one make the FS, Kovtun's junior points wouldn't have been used, and he wouldn't have been eligible for WTT, at least according the rules.
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2013
  3. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

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  4. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Rabid fans are going to be rabid fans.
     
  5. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    That is so random about Shelepen...Israel? :huh: Is she even Jewish and/or have ancestors from there? I wonder how she managed that one? Unfortunately, this means she can't compete in the Olympics next year due to the ISU rule, so I guess she needs to sit the entire next season out from ISU competitions, though if she is still recovering from her injury that may be for the best..
     
  6. Holley Calmes

    Holley Calmes Well-Known Member

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    And are going to annoy the rest of us, but then, it's sort of like watching a car wreck. I keep having to check in to these threads just to look and see what's the latest in Uberland.

    Seriously, what's the interminable use of the word "hate?" Nobody "hates" anybody really, do they? That's a pretty strong word. I can only speak for myself, and there ar some skaters I find annoying, or don't care for their skating, or think they've starting believing their own PR...but hate? Just because we don't worship at the alter we are "haters?" Go figure....
     
  7. bek

    bek Guest

    I thought it was a year out if you are a citizen from another country... Hasn't it been awhile since Polina's competed internationally?
     
  8. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

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  9. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    Wait, what's the Soldatova Rule again? 1 year? 2 years?

    Still, unless some Israeli skater could go to Nebelhorn to earn a spot for Israel for Sochi, it's pointless either way (as far as Sochi goes).
     
  10. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    I have no idea, but Israeli citizenship is pretty much automatic if you have one Jewish grandparent, regardless of whether you yourself are Jewish. Even now, after two or three decades of heavy emigration, there are many people still left in the Former U.S.S.R. who have or had one Jewish grandparent.

    One year, but it's measured from the start of the season (July 1), so she can't compete internationally until the start of the 2014-15 season. She is certainly young enough and talented enough for the 2018 Winter Olympic Games to be a realistic goal.
     
  11. bek

    bek Guest

    Wasn't Tatiana allowed to skate at Worlds, after competiting at the Olympics or has the concept of year changed?
     
  12. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    IIRC, the rule was, in fact, changed shortly after Tatiana Volosozhar began competing for Russia. It did use to be one year from the date of the last international competition.

    To see the current version of Rule 109, point your browser here: http://www5.isu.org/vsite/vfile/page/fileurl/0,11040,4844-206227-223450-177140-0-file,00.pdf
     
  13. babayaga

    babayaga Active Member

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    Thanks very much for your explanation.
     
  14. love_skate2011

    love_skate2011 Well-Known Member

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    Shelepen is Jewish ???? :confused:

    this was going to happen though
    she had no chance really skating in Russia, her career was pretty much almost done
     
  15. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    Shelepen said on her formspring that she was baptized, so no, she is not Jewish, at least not entirely, she is Christian in some percentage. She probably has some Jewish ancestors farther back though.
     
  16. love_skate2011

    love_skate2011 Well-Known Member

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    at least she can now be a multiple Jewish National Champion
    she probably wont be at 2014 Sochi ( 1 year sit out ? ) but maybe 2018
     
  17. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I <3 Kozuka

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    Rule 109 2c states that for Pairs and Ice Dance couples, the waiting period is 12 months from the date of the last competition for the old member. That applied to Volosozhar then and still applies now.

    For singles, the waiting periods, citizen or resident, are:
    For international competitions (not championships), they cannot have skated for another member within 12 months of July 1 of the season in either international competitions or championships. (109 2bii)
    For championships, the cannot have skater for another member within 18 months of July 1 of the season in either international competitions or championships. (109 2biii).​

    The ISU can make an exception to any waiting periods, and if they do, the skater does not apply to the new member's quotas. Recently someone asked if the exception was every granted, but I think the answer is no, unless someone can remember an event where there was a skater from "ISU."

    Shelepen's last international competition was Golden Spin of Zagreb; the Ladies FS took place on 15 December 2012. Her last championships was 2012 Junior Worlds; the Ladies FS took place on 3 March 2012. She'll be eligible to skate for Israel in both international competition and championships in 2014-15, assuming she's released by Russia, if she needs a release as a citizen of Israel. (Volosozhar needed a release from Ukraine, even though she got Russian citizenship.)
     
  18. quiqie

    quiqie Well-Known Member

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  19. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I <3 Kozuka

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    Some of these SB rankings could go up after WTT, but all of the WTT participants are either Top 12 at Worlds, guaranteed two GP's for next year, or Top 24 SB now and are guaranteed one. Looking at potential GP spots for next year -- I have no idea if any of the age-eligible juniors will go senior -- and not including duplicates on multiple lists:

    Top 12 Worlds:
    Volosozhar/Trankov, Kavaguti/Smirnov, Bazarova/Larianov, Bobrova/Soloviev, Ilinyk/Katsapalov, Riazanova/Tkachenko, Sotnikova, Tuktamysheva

    Top 24 SB:
    Stolbova/Klimov, Martiusheva/Rogonov, Vigalova/Zakroev (24, with no one on the Pairs list for WTT who can surpass them), Stepanova/Bukin, Sinitsina/Zhiganshin, Radionova (not age eligible), Liptnitskaia, Pogorilaya, Kovtun, Menshov

    Top 24 WS (unofficial, adjusted for end of season, not including Top 24 SB):
    Leonova, Korobeynikova
     
  20. Jeschke

    Jeschke Well-Known Member

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    so i have hope to see shelepen in some major competitions in upcoming years, yeah ! :D
     
  21. TAHbKA

    TAHbKA Well-Known Member

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    I guess she will be in all the euros/worlds etc after the 2014, though my impression as an israeli she'll be attempting to pass the SP and into the LP, doubt there would be any top 10 talks...

    In general am pissed again - the israeli nationals included american kids only. There were no local skaters at all (all the dance and pairs guys are from Israel, but they have not been training in Israel for some years now). Finally they open a rink in Israel in the centre and the first thing that is done is getting yet another skater who is not a local... Ugh...
     
  22. Jeschke

    Jeschke Well-Known Member

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    would be not too sure about that. although level has increased (thanks god), i think she is asbolutely a candidate for a top10 result (at euros at least), we will see.

    totally agree


    btw. who will be shelepens coach? does everything remain?
    wouldn't be surprised if we see galit chait in a few months :p haha

    it will not take too long for pushkash/guerrerio leaving russian fed too. wouldn't be surprised by monko/khaliavin too
     
  23. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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    I can understand why you are not happy, but wouldn't getting some success (even through 'imported skaters') make the skating more visible in your country and maybe more children would want to learn to skate? I would think if any of the skaters (and no matter if 'home one' or 'imported one') start bringing medals, the popularity of skating may suddenly increase...
     
  24. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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    Yes I agree. Especially after the Olympics, when Kostner/Asada/Kim/Suzuki probably retire, top ten could be doable for her. And at the Europeans I can imagine her being even 4-6.
     
  25. kittyjake5

    kittyjake5 Well-Known Member

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  26. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

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  27. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    I doubt it. For one thing, there's almost nowhere for these kids to skate - Israel only has three decent rinks, one is brand new and the other two are very out of the way (Metulla and Eilat). In addition, my feeling is that so long as the skaters are not perceived as truly Israeli, it won't get much attention. For most people, this would mean someone who grew up in Israel, trained primarily in Israel at least for the early part of their career, and preferably has an Israeli sounding name; bonus points if they served in the military. So far, the only skaters to have checked off most of these and achieve good results were the Zaretskis, and it wasn't enough (it probably didn't help that they retired after the 2009-10 season). I remember explaining to people that they really were Israeli and not imports.

    What Israel needs for skating to take off is more centrally located rinks, better coaches, and a federation that actually cares about developing the sport from the ground up, that is, something like the Spanish model. I won't hold my breath.

    Shelepen made a smart move, FWIW. She wouldn't have had much of a future representing Russia, now she'll get to go to ISU Championships every year.
     
  28. shah

    shah Shhh...

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    Summing up: Afonkina is skating for Bulgaria, Ovcharova for Switzerland, Shelepen for Israel... who's next? :p
    I think some of these lesser known wonderbabies should also consider AZE...
     
  29. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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    Gosviani for Georgia? But as she was at Europeans, she would have a long wait...and Russian Federation may not want to release her. :(
     
  30. Eislauffan

    Eislauffan Well-Known Member

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    Usually - as in these cases - the ones leave who are struggeling and as experience shows they are rarely doing much better once they started representing another country and have "easy" access to international events.
     
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