From Russia with love: Sochi (late Dec. 2013) through Sochi 2014

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, Dec 24, 2013.

  1. Stephanie

    Stephanie Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, I need to read better :slinkaway
     
  2. AYS

    AYS Cruder than you thought

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    I'm wondering if they mean 3loop/loop/3loop. Half loop is really a full rotation but landed on the back inside edge - it would be a similar thing, but landing the single rotation loop on the back right edge and taking right off into the second 3loop.

    Wondering if this sequence would be viewed favorably.
     
  3. alchemy void

    alchemy void it's time for the perkolator

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    Thanks so much for all the translations, by the way! Forgot to mention it earlier.

    I'm betting Simonenko meant 3loop-half loop-3sal? (I'm hoping). This would make the most sense to maximize her jumping TES. She could still do the 3toe-3toe, repeat the 3flip, do the 3flutz, and 2 double axels. Plus it would have both troublesome edge jumps done with in one pass if she could get it consistent. 3sal-half loop-3sal works too but isn't as good for TES.

    Sokolova used to do a 3sal-half loop-3loop sequence, but there was a turn in between the half loop and the loop (which is necessary) and I doubt under COP she could do such a sequence to make it even count at 80%; it would be probably be counted as two separate jumping passes: 3sal+1loop and 3sal.

    Oh god, I've thought entirely too much about this. ;) :slinkaway: Go Perkova! :cheer:
     
  4. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I <3 Kozuka

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    The Russian Fed can get Leonova two GP spots if they want to give her a host spot. They can leave a TBD and force another Fed to give her a guaranteed spot, and then give her a TBD later.

    Of course, they can pull a Sokolova/Sandhu and not enter her name, but if they do that, what are the chances of them assigning her to Senior B's? Not being submitted for a guaranteed GP by the Fed usually means, "Go away."
     
  5. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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    3loop/loop/3loop would be a really weird (and stupid) thing to do! If it was indeed a single loop in the middle, why bother with 3-1-3 when you can do 3-2-2 and the result is very comparable point-wise. If it meant 3loop-1/2loop-3loop. then it doesn't make sense at all. After half loop you end up on the back inside left edge. Doing the 3 Loop after that means that you have to step on the right leg -back outside edge, which means that it isn't combination any more, it is a jump sequence and therefore you have only 80% of the base value counted. Half loop has a sense to do only if you plan to add a flip or a Salchow, not a loop! By adding a loop you changed it from combination to a sequence. So if she meant 3L-1L-3S or 3L-1L-3F, it makes sense. If she meant 3L-1L-3L, it is weird.
     
  6. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    Will the presidents statement that worlds is for new blood and younger people be expanded to gp? That is why leonova was vetoed for worlds and can't go to worlds but is that expanded to gp or senior bs. Maybe they are hoping they don't have to do stuff like that again like they did to sokolova. Leonova has been retired as an option for worlds. Do they have to retire her from gp and senior b as well or does she get the message? She may be hoping she can see herself In a situation where she can go to worlds again.
     
  7. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I <3 Kozuka

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    I did not say height OR distance: I said height AND distance.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Rd1bEp4Prc

    Joubert received barely negative GOE (-.14) on a 4T/2T combo with not much distance and a tilted forward landing on the 4T and a muscled 2T. (The female announcer yells, "Magnifique!") Right after that, he had decent, but not spectacular distance on the solo 4T with no complexity on the landing or entry, for 1.29 GOE.

    He seemed to get more distance after the quad in the SP, and his lean on the 4T landing was less pronounced, with the 3T a lot tighter, but on average, the judges thought it wasn't even .5 better than his FS attempt.:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44Frp6_A49U
     
  8. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I <3 Kozuka

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    The number of entries per country to GP's isn't limited the way it is for Euros or Worlds. The only reason for a Fed to not allow a skater to take his or her guaranteed spot(s) or to make it know to other hosts that the skater shouldn't be taken off the alternates list (for a first or second) is to sink the skater and/or keep him/her from besting the favorites (by making GPF, for example). Normally, it makes sense for a Federation to have as many skaters as possible at GPs, to earn WS points and SB's, for starting order at championships and GP's, to earn GPs, and to block other skaters from getting GPs.

    If they didn't want to allow Leonova to be competitive, they didn't have to send her to Euros. What if Lipnitskaia had had her Olys SP in Budapest? That could have stirred things up WRT Olympics selection. There was nothing to stop them from choosing Pogorilaya, if she was healthy: despite a poor SP, she beat Leonova in the FS, and she made GPF.
     
  9. AYS

    AYS Cruder than you thought

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    If they gave the 1loop a 0.5 value, doing a 3-1-3loop would be 2 points base value more than 3-2-2loop (10.7 vs 8.7), which is actually quite meaningful. I think when they score the 3loop-half loop-3salchow, they actually assign the half loop that 0.5 point value of a loop. So, doing a 3-1-3loop would be a similar strategy to the loop-half loop-salchow sequence, but worth a little more because of the second triple being a loop.
     
  10. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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    Actually, I disagree. The number of skaters per country in GP is limited. You can't have more than 3 skaters from the same country per event and there is only six events , which means that there is max 18 spots per country. In addition, one also needs to consider that the host countries are choosing who to invite, so the chances are that they may not choose to have three Russians at their event and therefore Russia won't have 18 places but perhaps some 14-16 places in total. If you are Russian skating federation and have 14-16 places and many talented skaters, you will prioritize the better ones and not submit the worse ones. So if you had the following eligible: Sotnikova, Lipnitskaya, Radionova, Pogorilaya, Sakhanovich, Proklova, Sotskova and Medvedeva and assuming that they skated as well as they skated this season, you as a skating Federation would know that there is no point submitting for assignment Artemeva, Gosviani, Tuktamysheva, Korobeynikova and Leonova (assuming that they also skated the way they did this season) because you would want the better 8-9 of them have 2 assignments rather than some of them having two and the majority having just one. You want the best to have a chance to get into GPF. Saying that, Russian Federation is well aware of that. They are very picky who they put on their international team. I don't think they will want to have there 13 senior ladies, so they will cut it down (and then not submit their names for GP events).
     
  11. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I <3 Kozuka

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    Seriously? There's no difference between three spots max and eighteen spots max?

    Sakhanovich, Proklova, Sotskova, and Medvedeva are not age-eligible for next year -- starting with the 2014-15 season, they must be 15 by 1 July 2014 for all senior ISU events -- and it doesn't matter how much the Russian Fed wants to send them to GP. Like with Lipnitskaia and Sotnikova, who had their own season of woe, and Tuktamysheva, who was considered a contender for the OGM just a few years ago and hasn't come out the other side of her slump, there's no guarantee that any of these Ladies will be as excellent in a year or two as they are now or that they won't have an adjustment year or two, even after they excel.

    Last season, there were five RUS Ladies in the Top 24 SB, all age-eligible, with Leonova on the cusp; all got two in the initial selection. In addition, Korobeynikova was guaranteed one from being #22 on the WS list. The only other Russian Ladies skater who didn't qualify automatically was Gosviani, who was eligible for a host pick and another assignment from the substitutions list. That translated into this season, where the Russian Fed sent Tuktamysheva and Radionova to SA, Lipnitskaia to SC -- Leonova had to pull out -- Pogorilaya, Sotnikova, and Gosviani (who replaced Korobeynikova), to Cup of China, Leonova and Radionova to NHK, Pogorilaya and Sotnikova to TEB, and Liptnitskaia, Tuktamysheva, and Gosviani to RC. That's seven different skaters assigned to 14 spots, with an eighth scheduled and pulled.

    The age-eligible RUS Ladies skaters who are likely to be in the Top 24 WS SB are Sotnikova, Lipnitskaia, Radionova, Pogorilaya, and Leonova, and with a good chance of staying there, Tuktamysheva, especially if Kim is dropped as a retired skater. The next age-eligible skater is Gosviani, SB #41. Korobeynikova doesn't have a SB score this season.

    I didn't see picky this season, and the skaters who will be guaranteed spots or be on the cusp are the exact same skaters who were guaranteed spots this season, with Gosviani again being the highest on the list for the alternates list. If I'm the Russian Federation, I would want two spots for all of those guaranteed one if I could get them, which should be everyone but Gosviani. I would see no reason to demoralize a skater who was 4th at Europeans and, to date, the only Russian woman to be on the Worlds podium since 2005, because of something that *might* happen two seasons from now, when it would be possible to have the equivalent of a 2013 Sotnikova/Tuktamysheva showing.
     
    Last edited: Mar 13, 2014
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  12. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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    kwanfan1818, if you look at my post No 510 and 514, you may notice that I am actually aware that Sakhanovich, Proklova, Sotskova, and Medvedeva are not age-eligible for next year. I did write it in both posts! I thought the discussion (if you actually bothered to read it) was about whether Leonova may still have long and successful career ahead of her. While I wrote in my posts that I don't doubt that she will get 2 assignments the next season (2014-2015), it will be nearly impossible to get 2 assignments from the season after that (2015-2016) if she skates on the level she has been this season because those fours youngsters from junior will become eligible. Obviously if she gets to the form she was 2-3 years ago, she may make it, but what she is doing now won't be enough. Although having max 18 spots (actually 9 'double-spots' because one needs 2 GP events to be able to get to GPF) is much more than having max three spots for Europeans/worlds, with the level of skating that is in Russia now it really soon won't be enough. I can imagine what the federation will do because they did it to Sokolova.
     
  13. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I <3 Kozuka

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    Then you're also aware that Sotnikova and Lipnitskaia had their difficulties over the last few seasons, that Tuktamysheva, who was considered a medal threat in Sochi not so long ago, is not competitive lately, that had Tuktamysheva and Sotnikova not done so poorly in London, that Leonova would have been in Sochi against many's predictions, just as she was a surprise-to-many participant at Euros, that there's no guarantee that in two year's time that any of the current phenoms will be dominant and/or not going through a growth spurt or be dealing with body changes -- they'll all be turning 16 in the 2015-16 season -- or maintain their jumps or be healthy.

    Leonova has been written off over and over, but she somehow remains in the mix. You're welcome to write her off, of course.
     
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  14. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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    Well, she hasn't exactly remained in the mix, has she! She missed Olympics and they are sending Pogorilaya to worlds instead of her...
     
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  15. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I <3 Kozuka

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    And USFS is sending Max Aaron instead of Jason Brown.

    We'll just have to wait and see.
     
  16. DobrinFan

    DobrinFan Well-Known Member

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    Guess Gachinsky officially has flown the coop, don't think Mishin would have given this answer had he not......

    Full interview http://fsnews.ru/page-id-2248.html
     
  17. Messalina

    Messalina Seasonal Curmudgeon

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    What with juniors AND seniors, there are just too many Russian girls/women to like! :) I can think of only one (who skates internationally) whom I really don't like.
     
  18. allezfred

    allezfred Old and Immature Admin Staff Member

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    There were other reasons they did it to Sokolova. :shuffle:
     
  19. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    Based on the most recent reports gachinski is seemigly much more quiet than such people as dmitriev jr
     
  20. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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    Do we know who his new coach is?
     
  21. misskarne

    misskarne #408

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    :(
     
  22. DobrinFan

    DobrinFan Well-Known Member

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    Nothing official on the new coach. Rumors suggest Sokolovskaya who teaches at CSKA and coaches Bush, Shelepen, and S. Borodulin :scream:

    Link: http://sport.mail.ru/sochi/news/16971778/
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2014
  23. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

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    Isn't Sokolovskaya the one whose students can't jump to save their lives?
     
  24. DobrinFan

    DobrinFan Well-Known Member

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    The one and only :scream:
     
  25. misskarne

    misskarne #408

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    Oh no Artur please don't do it!
     
  26. love_skate2011

    love_skate2011 Well-Known Member

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    omg, :yikes: that's a career suicide
    he should be begging to go to Tutberidze, Buyanova or Menshov's coach or heck even Morozov
     
  27. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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    I agree. Tutberidge is the safest bid but he would share the ice with Voronov and Voronov now has became quite good. Saying that, the ladies also share a coach, for example Lipnitskaya and Medvedeva have the same coach and Radionova with Proklova also share one , and it did not hurt them at all.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2014
  28. rfisher

    rfisher Satisfied skating fan

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    Tutberidze also just had Pitkeev win silver at junior Worlds so I'd say she's got a solid group of skaters.
     
  29. oleada

    oleada Well-Known Member

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    She also has another young girl, Polina Tsurskaya, who has some potential. Fantastic jumps - but not a whole lot else yet.
     
  30. misskarne

    misskarne #408

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    Not Morozov!

    Going to anyone with direct rivals of his would defeat the point of leaving Mishin, wouldn't it?

    I'd rather see him train outside of Russia, but we know politically that wouldn't work for him.