From Russia with love: Sochi (late Dec. 2013) through Sochi 2014

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, Dec 24, 2013.

  1. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Practice videos from Russian Nationals in Sochi (competition runs from Dec. 24-27, 2013): http://www.youtube.com/user/mihsersh/videos

    (Competition play-by-play and results discussion threads will be in the 2013/14 Other Nationals forum in Kiss and Cry.)

    ETA event schedule for Tuesday, December 24 (times are local; Sochi is 9 hours ahead of Eastern time):

    14:00 Men Short Program
    17:45 Pairs Short Program
    20:00 Short Dance

    Posted in the Russian Nationals info thread in the Kiss and Cry forum yesterday:
    :(
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2013
  2. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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  3. NadineWhite

    NadineWhite Well-Known Member

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    I'm really looking forward to Mens Russian Nationals later on this evening. :) I was very impressed to watch Zhenya land a 4/3/2 combo. in practice the other day. :cool:

    GOOOOOOOOOOOOOO EVGENI!!!!:kickass:
  4. love_skate2011

    love_skate2011 Well-Known Member

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  5. NadineWhite

    NadineWhite Well-Known Member

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    I'm watching this link: http://live.russia.tv/index/index/channel_id/2

    They're showing Evgeni in the ballet room, shirtless (lots of tats), jumping and practicing. Doing a special on him obviously, fascinating, don't understand a word but that's okay. :cool:
  6. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    I am not seeing anything live. I tried two channels including NadineWhite's. The other I accessed is showing basketball. The results page is not showing any results, just the skating order. Mens SP must be over by now (it's 2 hours past the starting time there).

    ETA: All is well. It has just started. :)
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2013
  7. senorita

    senorita New Member

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  8. NadineWhite

    NadineWhite Well-Known Member

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    Thanks seniorita :)

    I was trying all those posted over in the K&C portion, but didn't hit pay dirt till you posted yours. :cool:

    ps: am unable to quote, multi-quote, edit, etc. (hopefully will be resolved soon; been going on for about a month now). :(
  9. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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  10. senorita

    senorita New Member

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    I m hoping Plush is having this program as a practice to his Lp? Cause it is partly same music, otherwise how can he jump still is beyond me.
  11. leapfrogonice

    leapfrogonice Active Member

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    I am so impressed by Plush for his technical mastery and for making such a staggeringly impressive return with his jumps. It is for this reason though, that I am quite puzzled by the fact that he and his team seems to be putting so little genuine effort at crafting his programs and utilizing music. It is, in effect, saying "the music and programs do not really matter as much" - which, actually, seems to be true. I realize that would be quite a tall order, but it just seems striking to me.
  12. Holley Calmes

    Holley Calmes Well-Known Member

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    Just chiming in to say hurray for my boy Voronov! 3rd after the short....I know he isn't the upper crust in artistry but I've always pulled for him because I like the underdog sometimes. And there's just something about him that tugs at my heart. I hope he medals.
  13. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Last edited: Dec 24, 2013
  14. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    I am thrilled for Plushenko. At age 31, he is beating most who are at least 10 years younger than him. I just hope he stays healthy for Sochi, but first he has to win the Russian nationals. He has just 5 point lead over Kovtun.
  15. liv

    liv Well-Known Member

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    No matter what I think/thought of Plushenko coming back, again, I am impressed. Really impressed. His ability to do those jumps, as if he was a decade younger, is truly fantastic, especially in light of all the injuries he's endured over the years. I hope he stays healthy because it would be an amazing moment for him to compete at the Olympics at home if he earned that right.
  16. Holley Calmes

    Holley Calmes Well-Known Member

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    I will say it again..the "story" of Plushenko doing well and skating well in his home country at age 31 and after numerous physical problems-even medaling-is such a great story that it perhaps overshadows his qualities as a skater. I can well understand the enthusiasm for the story and share it to an extent. He's a great jumper. But there is more to it than jumping. I don't want to be negative about him. I just don't think that "the story" should overwhelm the quality of each skater being judged individually. If Plushy wins fair and square-good for him. If he's just a PR tool for the sport when others skater better....might be better for the sport anyway. It'll get more press. Sad but true. I'd personally rather watch paint dry, but if he's good for the sport, maybe that's a good thing. The sport needs it.
  17. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    You ARE being very negative about him. Plushenko is a great skater and a greater competitor. Those who dislike him, for whatever reason, try to diminish his accomplishments. Sure it's a great story but he has earned it through perseverance, will power, and hard work. This is even more creditable than just winning an OGM, and he has done that too, again deservedly so. He made a successful transition from the 6.0 system to COP- something that not many skaters of his generation were able to do. It is a near miracle that he can compete with the top skaters in the world at this age, and after competing at the senior level for 16 years. Give credit where it's due.
  18. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately COP puts less emphasis on musical interpretation. It has affected all disciplines but the worst effect was on pairs. Mens eligible skating was always about athleticism first, artistry is nice if you have that too. Fans may want more artistry but it doesn't work that way when it comes to competition. I for one admire the athleticism, particularly in singles skating.
  19. Katarzyna

    Katarzyna Well-Known Member

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    :respec:

    There are quite a lot of skaters which I prefere stylewise over Plushenko, but after his SP at Nats there is nothing left to say for me except AMAZING. It’s annoying that some people are unable to assess a skater’s achievement objectively just because it is not their favourite.
  20. Holley Calmes

    Holley Calmes Well-Known Member

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    I am NOT being negative! You are an uber fan. You cannot be objective. Just because he is not my favorite does not mean I don't respect him and wish him well and totally admire his incredible will. ( BTW-There are thousands of cancer patients battling the disease who show the same will power and preserverence. They just don't get medals...) This is exactly what I am saying-the story supercedes the quality of the skating. I'm being objective. I am just saying that his story is quite possibly of more impact and beneficial to skating than his actual superiority (or lack thereof) of his skating. We are all going to have different opinions on who moves us and who we like as skaters. I believe that people who don't agree with you that he is the be and end all of skaters are always wrong-you don't allow for difference of opinion. But I AM saying that regardless of how I feel about his skating, his story could be very good for the sport. How in any rational manner can that be negative? I'm paying him a supreme compliment! So if I don't think he's the greatest thing ever on skates, I am totally wrong? Very broadminded, accepting and tolerant of you!
  21. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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    I don't want to argue with you. BUT IF PLUSHENKO IS ONLY A JUMPER YAGUDIN IS ALSO ONLY A JUMPER. HE IS NO MORE THAN PLUSHY. Yagudin is not better in any part of the skating like Plush. There is a diffrence he is your favorite.....
    Vash01 and (deleted member) like this.
  22. Katarzyna

    Katarzyna Well-Known Member

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    Of course you are super objective. Seriously, though there are enough ubbers on this board, most people manage it to be a skater`s fan and judge their achievements objectively. Looks rather like you have a problem with it when putting them under general suspicion of lack of objectivity? :rolleyes:

    I really have to laugh about your fear that the story will overshine a skater’s actual performance and may lead to kind of competitive advantage. If that be the case, there e.g would not be any discussions on Akiko Suzuki’s PC. If a skater has a “story” it basically only means that he had a serious setback in his/her career, may it be injury or personal reasons which did not allow him or her to train at full strength. I don’t see how this can be beneficial to any skater? Actually we rather see the opposite and IMHO one of the reasons why Plushenko was able to get back in that kind of shape is that all his injury problems at least started AFTER he had a stable quad and of course stable triples as it is easier to relearn jumps than having push the technical complexity even further after devastating injury break.

    Heading to Sochi a difference compared to his rivals certainly might be a bigger media attention. However, with home games Plushenko would have gotten that anyways. And this can be an advantage or the opposite of it – not every skater can handle such pressure (think e.g. of Carolina Kostner in 2006). In addition what would you have suggested Plushenko to do? Keeping his health problems secret, so that people would have started to speculate if he’d become too lazy or too old when he started training jumps from scratch? :confused:
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  23. Holley Calmes

    Holley Calmes Well-Known Member

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  24. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    Plushenko will always be the king, whether he skates in Sochi or not (does not seem likely now). He has accomplished so much in his career; he can be proud of all those accomplishments.
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2013
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  25. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    Sochi definitely seems out and his career over.
  26. NadineWhite

    NadineWhite Well-Known Member

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    One not-so-good FS from Evgeni is not enough to convince me that he won't be well enough for either Euros or Sochi or both. His SP at Russian Nationals was superb, with a 4/3 to boot! His FS he did a lot of doubles, yet still managed an opening quad and a 3axel, not bad at all, still good enough for silver. :) It's between him & God whether or not his body will hold up for the rest...we shall see....

    Btw, I love reading your posts, Vash01, you're articulate, even paced, and positive, I like that. :)

    As for the naysayers ~ "by the pricking of my thumbs, something wicked this way comes"
  27. NadineWhite

    NadineWhite Well-Known Member

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    ps: MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE! :)
  28. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    Thank you NadineWhite. Wish you a merry Christmas too.

    About Plushenko- I have watched him compete at world level since he was 15 (and earlier as Junior). In all these years I have seen him skate TWO poor performances! I don't know how many skaters can have that kind of consistency. His first poor performance was at age 17 (worlds 2000 LP) and the second at age 31- today. I would definitely give him another chance to prove himself, but now it's up to RSF and Plushenko himself, and the politics (Tarasova will pull all stops to give the spot to Kovtun without further discussion).
  29. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure because of tarasova and this instance Russia for men's will adopt the national champion automatically goes to Olympics.
    immoimeme and (deleted member) like this.
  30. bek

    bek Guest


    Yes but this isn't the same Plushenko. His body is falling apart. He may not be physically capable of pulling it together at the Olympics. I don't think its wise to send someone in hopes that they have a miracle skate.

    And if said skater is not competiting much its hard to say what they are hoping for-isn't a miracle skate.

    Kovtun is young and healthy, he's consistently put out the quads and other high tech content out there. There's the team event to consider where Russia could win gold. I don't see why its a good idea to send Plush when he hasn't demonstrated his capable of being at his old level.

    To be honest I'm afraid the man is going to seriously hurt/damage himself. And my biggest fear is always been something could happen at the Team Event.

    Plushenko's a great skater and champion-but age and injuries can get even him.
  31. allezfred

    allezfred Prick Admin Staff Member

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    What has Yagudin got to do with it? :confused:
  32. bek

    bek Guest

    To be frank I think the Russian fed would be doing Plush a favor by saying its over.
  33. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    I believe she is responding to the claim by another poster that Plushenko has only jumps, and that is true of most skaters that skated in the 6.0 system. Yagudin, who is the darling of everyone on fsu was no different. I think that's the point of that post.
  34. Cyn

    Cyn Well-Known Member

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    :rofl: That's one of the funniest things I've read today. Thanks for the laugh.

    And that is (along with lala's post) a total load of crap. Yagudin's footwork was far better than Plushenko's, and not only when they were competing against each other. Yagudin's FW from 2002 is far superior to any of Plushenko's FW from 2003 onward. Both of them could have had better spins, but again, Yagudin's were and are better than Plushenko's have ever been.

    Before Yagudin left Camp Mishin for Tarasova, he was, at that point, nothing but jumps. She took a diamond in the rough and was able to "cut and polish" his skating into something/someone special. When it comes to coaching and choreography, she has a talent and ability that Mishin is sorely lacking. I used to always wonder what kind of skater she could have turned Plushenko into if he had gone to her and Yagudin stayed with Mishin.

    Oh, and just FTR, before lala goes off on one of her dumbass uber-accusations, I was never a Yagudin uber during his competitive years, and I'm not a fan of exhibition skating at all - by any skaters or teams.
  35. Katarzyna

    Katarzyna Well-Known Member

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    I hate how TAT politicked Kovtun in the Team last year, I hate how she politicks PCS he totally doesn't deserve instead of focusing on possibly producing the same transformation with Kovtun as she did with Yagudin in the past. But even with only very few badly skated events in his whole career Plushenko has lost in fair square at Nats and unlike Kovtun he didn't produce any results at high level events. - Certainly because he was not ready yet earlier this season. But if I were RF I'd rather rely on a skater who is healthy and in shape now, than on a skater who MIGHT be ready later on. You still have to give credit to Plushenko - I didn`t believe he would ever jump quads again and he might still have a great pro career ahead.

    And Merry Christmas to you from my side as well! :)
  36. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    Kovtun is no Yagudin, that's for sure, no matter how much Tarasova tries to convince others. Yagudin was one of the most consistent jumpers. He did develop his artistry with Tarasova, but he already had the right jump technique which he learned from Mishin.
  37. VarBar

    VarBar Well-Known Member

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    Wow, a lot of Tarasova hatred from the Mishin/Plushenko devotees. Not that it would come as a surprise though.;)

    Politicking high PCS for Kovtun is downright disgusting but politicking even higher PCS for Plushenko's empty programs is perfectly legitimate, I suppose.:lol:
  38. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    Haters gonna hate :cheer:

    Seriously though, I feel Kovtun's PCS to be much more in line than Plushenko's. He listens to and expresses the music with his body, uses more body positions and skates with much better purpose / choreography. So if both were awarded with realistic PCS instead of inflated ones, Kovtun would just have won with a bigger margin anyway. :p

    Interesting about the Mishin and Tarasova rivalry. To think, if another Mishin student Gachinski had just edged Kovtun out of Euros and Worlds last season, the situation would be much more containable now. :D
  39. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Final results - Nationals in Sochi: http://fsrussia.ru/upl/results/1314/rusnat1314/index.htm

    LADIES
    1 Аделина СОТНИКОВА Sotnikova МОС 212.77 1 2
    2 Юлия ЛИПНИЦКАЯ Lipnitskaia М/Е 210.81 2 1
    3 Елена РАДИОНОВА Radionova МОС 202.01 3 3

    4 Александра ПРОКЛОВА Proklova МОС 195.39 5 4
    5 Алёна ЛЕОНОВА Leonova М/С 187.48 4 7
    6 Серафима САХАНОВИЧ Sakhanovich СПБ 183.58 7 6
    7 Евгения МЕДВЕДЕВА Medvedeva МОС 181.86 8 8
    8 Анна ПОГОРИЛАЯ Pogorilaya МОС 180.88 10 5
    9 Николь ГОСВИЯНИ Gosviani СПБ 176.54 6 10
    10 Елизавета ТУКТАМЫШЕВА Tukatamysheva С/Г 175.59 9 9
    11 Мария АРТЕМЬЕВА Artemieva СПБ 155.23 11 14
    12 Софья БИРЮКОВА Biryukova МОС 150.15 15 12
    13 Диана ПЕРВУШКИНА Pervushina ТОЛ 149.14 16 13
    14 Алсу КАЮМОВА Kaiumova МОС 144.83 17 11
    15 Диана ШАМСУТДИНОВА Shamsutdinova ИЖЕ 144.40 14 15
    16 Полина АГАФОНОВА Agafonova СПБ 144.32 12 17
    17 Алина МАКСИМОВА Maksimova МОС 143.59 13 16
    18 Анна ШЕРШАК Shershak МОС 130.62 18 18

    PAIRS
    1 Ксения СТОЛБОВА / Фёдор КЛИМОВ Stolbova/Klimov С/М 214.47 1 2
    2 Вера БАЗАРОВА / Юрий ЛАРИОНОВ Bazarova/Larionov С/М 214.02 2 1
    3 Мария ВЫГАЛОВА / Егор ЗАКРОЕВ Vigalova/Zakroev ПРМ 182.35 4 3

    4 Юлия АНТИПОВА / Нодари МАИСУРАДЗЕ Antipova/Maisuradze МОС 174.97 5 7
    5 Василиса ДАВАНКОВА / Андрей ДЕПУТАТ Davankova/Deputat МОС 173.09 6 6
    6 Лина ФЁДОРОВА / Максим МИРОШКИН Fedorova/Miroshkin МОС 172.80 9 4
    7 Катарина ГЕРБОЛЬДТ / Александр ЭНБЕРТ Gerboldt/Enbert СПБ 172.37 7 5
    8 Евгения ТАРАСОВА / Владимир МОРОЗОВ Tarasova/Morozov МОС 169.06 3 10
    9 Кристина АСТАХОВА / Максим КУРДЮКОВ Astakhova/Kurdyukov МОС 159.62 8 8
    10 Анастасия ГУБАНОВА / Алексей СИНЦОВ Gubanova/Sincov ПРМ 153.28 10 9

    ICE DANCE
    1 Екатерина БОБРОВА / Дмитрий СОЛОВЬЕВ Bobrova/Soloviev МОС 179.90 1 1
    2 Елена ИЛЬИНЫХ / Никита КАЦАЛАПОВ Ilinykh/Katsalapov МОС 168.01 2 2
    3 Виктория СИНИЦИНА / Руслан ЖИГАНШИН МОС Sinitsina/Zhiganshin 165.60 3 3

    4 Екатерина РЯЗАНОВА / Илья ТКАЧЕНКО Riazanova/Tkachenko МОБ 163.99 4 4
    5 Ксения МОНЬКО / Кирилл ХАЛЯВИН Monko/Khaliavin МОС 155.59 5 6
    6 Александра СТЕПАНОВА / Иван БУКИН Stepanova/Bukin МОС 151.80 6 5
    7 Валерия ЗЕНКОВА / Валерий СИНИЦИН Zenkova/Sinitsin МОС 133.87 7 8
    8 Екатерина ПУШКАШ / Джонатан ГУРЕЙРО Pushkash/Guerreiro МОС 133.62 8 7
    9 Анжелика КАНИВЕЦ / Алексей ЧИЖОВ Kanivets/Tchizhov СВЕ 81.88 9 9
    10 Светлана ХОМЯКОВА / Никита ШУБО-ЯБЛОНСКИЙ Khomiakova/Shubo-Jablonski КИР 81.40 10 10

    MEN
    1 Максим КОВТУН Kovtun М/Е 267.13 2 1
    2 Евгений ПЛЮЩЕНКО Plushenko СПБ 261.37 1 2
    3 Сергей ВОРОНОВ Voronov МОС 249.44 3 3

    4 Константин МЕНЬШОВ Menshov СПБ 230.13 10 4
    5 Адьян ПИТКЕЕВ Pitkeev МОС 224.25 4 6
    6 Артур ГАЧИНСКИЙ Gachinski СПБ 224.17 12 5
    7 Жан БУШ Bush М/Ч 217.40 5 8
    8 Александр ПЕТРОВ Petrov СПБ 216.47 7 7
    9 Артур ДМИТРИЕВ Dmitriev МОС 202.03 8 11
    10 Мурад КУРБАНОВ Kurbanov МОС 199.86 14 9
    11 Сергей БОРОДУЛИН S. Borodulin МОС 197.31 13 10
    12 Гордей ГОРШКОВ Gorshkov СПБ 196.72 9 14
    13 Александр САМАРИН Samarin МОС 193.11 16 12
    14 Андрей ЛАЗУКИН Lazukin СПБ 186.25 18 13
    15 Морис КВИТЕЛАШВИЛИ Kvitelashvili МОС 184.98 11 16
    16 Владислав СЕЗГАНОВ Sezganov СПБ 182.75 17 15
    17 Константин МИЛЮКОВ Milyukov КАЗ 165.58 15 17
    WD Михаил КОЛЯДА Kolyada СПБ (boot lace problem during FS that he couldn't fix in time :()
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2013
  40. unicorn

    unicorn Member

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    Kovtun is no Yagudin, he's Kovtun. He just beat both Yagudin and Plushenko at Russian National. :) And how he did at worlds last year is not a very good reference for his future performance. As long as he has the quality, he's just going to reform year by year very quickly like lots of young promising stars. He's going uphill, while Plushenko and some other more senior skaters, they are just going downhill year by year, that's the reality. Look how Yuzuru Hanyu did at his first senior year and where he is now. But I fully understand some of Plushenko fans' emotions right now, so keep attacking him.
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2013