From Russia With Love - Autumn 2012

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, Sep 12, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. casken

    casken Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2004
    Messages:
    6,322
    Am I only the person to find everything so far incredibly disappointing?

    I'm not even exaggerating. There's not *one* program so far out of these tests that I'm impressed with. I know it's early and programs have room to grow, but I can usually tell when a program has potential to be something, and none of these programs have it.

    I can't believe how disappointing V&T's programs are in particular.

    :blah:
    alilou and (deleted member) like this.
  2. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2010
    Messages:
    1,826
    So who actually won the test skates in each event? I'm especially interested in the comparison between the new Bobrova and Soloviev and the new Riazanova and Tkachenko to see who Russia seems to be backing. Obviously no Ilinykh and Katsalapov at the competition, but still interesting to see.
  3. misskarne

    misskarne Spirit. Focus. Ability. Tenacity. Aussie Grit.

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2011
    Messages:
    5,562
    You must've not been paying attention to anything else then because Plushenko said outright that this is just the bones of the program and it's not complete yet.

    The motion you're talking about, he missed a spin and was indicating that that was where the spin would go.
  4. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2002
    Messages:
    13,885
    They're just demonstrations... not scored. Some skaters also performed at Russian Cup events, so if you see any scores, that's from those.
  5. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2002
    Messages:
    13,885
    Ice dancing has been incredibly disappointing, except that P&G have been a pleasant surprise.... but I did like S&K and M&R in pairs, Plushy's LP, Makarova's LP, and Leonova's SP.
  6. martyross

    martyross New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    899
    the costume is interesting. i spent the whole time watching it and trying to figure what it is about. a white swan whose transformation in black went wrong on one side, or a black swan who just couldnt get totally white?
    the program may be about the life and the death of a swan. thats why they play Danse macabre in the end, i guess.
  7. misskarne

    misskarne Spirit. Focus. Ability. Tenacity. Aussie Grit.

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2011
    Messages:
    5,562
    I don't know exactly what it's meant to be, but it's gorgeous. I love it.

    IIRC, I think Plushenko was going to do a Swan program back in the late 90s, but for whatever reason, it got shelved. So this is the second time in his comeback that he's gone back to his teenage years.

    Maybe he should do that more often. I would be very interested to see him re-interpreting some of his programs from when he was 15/16/17. Of course the rules have changed since then, but he's also changed.
  8. babayaga

    babayaga Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2010
    Messages:
    434
    I didn't like much, but I think both Bobrova/Soloviev's programs are terrific, I will be cheering for the to do well this year with all my heart. I think Kawaguti/Smirnov's long is beautiful and Sotnikva's short will be great for her. Stolbova/Klimov always have interesting choreography.

    I am not a fan V/T's programs too, but I am not disappointed since I probably didn't expect much to begin with.
  9. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

    Joined:
    May 9, 2002
    Messages:
    11,250
    My expectation was low but as pleasantly surprised by Makarova and even by Plushenko (by each segment, not yet by the whole program of course). V&T's short program was alright and could be great if they could add more chemistry into it. The free skate looks like it needs a lot more mileage if not more choreography / transitions in the second half.

    Too bad Lipnitskaya and Tuk did not skate.
  10. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

    Joined:
    May 9, 2002
    Messages:
    11,250
    Yes he skipped some jumps and spins so perhaps that's why it looked even more bare bones than usual. Although, having said that, Plushenko was never one of those who would add significant transitions into his programs as the season went on so I wouldn't sit on the edge of my seat waiting for that to happen. :p

    He used to do a decent arabesque spiral, and I would love to see him do one, maybe in the first or second segment. Please, no more painful looking Biellmann spirals. :p

    Did Stannick Jeannette of France use to wear a similar costume about 10 years ago? Perhaps also while he was skating to Rondo?
  11. bmcg

    bmcg Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2011
    Messages:
    1,115
    Well all I did was watch the program and listen to the music so of course I wasn't paying attention to anything else ;) My comment was a response to posts that seemed in awe of this wonderful LP and I was wondering what they had watched. Obviously not the same thing as you and I since you yourself recognize just the bones.

    As for the rest of the videos I watched. Not thrilled with any of the ice dance in general but I usually warm to them as the season progresses. I was surprised to find myself enjoying K&S's LP. If she could just learn to point those toes!!
  12. misskarne

    misskarne Spirit. Focus. Ability. Tenacity. Aussie Grit.

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2011
    Messages:
    5,562
    Regardless of the prevailing beliefs on this site Plushenko and his team aren't stupid. They have had to learn a very hard fast lesson about program structure. They will never win in the eyes of people on here because they simply cannot backload his program or throw the kitchen sink into it. His body can't take that. They do what they can do. He is already doing more transitions than ever before and I would not be surprised if they put more in. He already said in an interview that they will.

    ...and at least he stays on his feet. Unlike some.

    I agree with you on the spiral. He had a beautiful arabesque spiral and I love that much more than his Biellmann. It's a shame we didn't see it that often.
  13. senorita

    senorita New Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2008
    Messages:
    1,945
    LOL, thatswhy he did a motion? Because I wondered about it and I thought he waved to someone to fast forward the cd:lol:
  14. analia

    analia Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2012
    Messages:
    135
    Does anyone know P/G's SD music? I'm kind of obsessed.
  15. inskate

    inskate Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2008
    Messages:
    394
    Cirque du Soleil: Quidam soundtrack. The first part is called Marelle, the second one - Zydeko. :)
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2012
  16. Taso

    Taso Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2002
    Messages:
    6,662
    I'm almost never online anymore and I'm just now watching some of these Russian programs, and I can't even believe that's Plushenko doing that first footwork sequence. This Saint-Saens medley works so well for him, I'm totally beyond impressed - I've always respected the hell out of him, but I'd never expect such a change in style of movement at the age of 30 from ANYONE :respec:

    All I did was go ahead and watch programs that good reviews, and I'm ok with that....:p

    Leonova's sp
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3OgwkQRwzQ

    Great program for her, this is awesome :) And she should seriously consider skating in a catsuit for the future, damn

    V&T's lp
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpljTe75gVg&list=UUjaUiznBS9O3SeqwqlIc4UQ&index=8&feature=plcp
    Well the opening was really promising, but it totally lost focus for me. Then again, Black Swan did the same early on last year and they held it together much better by Worlds, so I'm not super worried in the long term.

    S&K's lp
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1byOWKU_bL4&list=UUjaUiznBS9O3SeqwqlIc4UQ&index=31&feature=plcp
    For whatever reason I've loved this team from the moment I first saw them and I've never understood the dislike towards them from posters here who usually share similar tastes to my own (though I'm often concerned about their seeming lack of speed). I love that they make use of the head and are "stretching" into the music (don't know how else to work that). Really like this program too, well done - I really want them in the Russian top 3, and this choreography and performance quality should totally take them there IMO :)

    S&K's sp
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXtOSqt0XyI&feature=related
    And their sp was great too, loved the footwork sequence where they actually, you know, came in contact with each other with holds of about the same difficulty of CoP ice dance (good for S&K, pathetic for CoP dance :p) Does anyone know if the LP is a continuation of their sp? Has anyone done this since the days of Candeloro?!!!!

    P&G's SD
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aWMHmtJQhk&list=UUjaUiznBS9O3SeqwqlIc4UQ&index=28&feature=plcp
    PREFECT vehicle for this otherwise really disjointed SD theme! They're moving about 100 times better than I've ever seen from them in the past with about five times the musical nuances interpretted :)
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2012
  17. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2009
    Messages:
    6,355
    http://en.ria.ru/sports/20120916/175997797.html

    This article gets something wrong - Gachinski has worked with David Wilson - and it is not that Gachinski didn't do two quads in a FS but now he wants to do Salchow and Toe and not two quad toe loops. Brezina and Fernandez both attempt salchow and toe loop quads.
  18. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2001
    Messages:
    25,227
    I had no idea V&T were an off ice couple. She did kiss him last year in the K&C (I think) but I didn't read much into it.

    ITA about Plushenko. I don't care if he wins a medal or not. He is a legend and we are lucky to watch a skater who competed at senior worlds at age 15 (and even won a medal) and who still wants to compete at age 30 (or 31 or 32). His passion for the sport is unbelievable. He has fought through injuries, surgeries, rule changes, and criticism, to do what he loves to do. He has my respect.
  19. Frau Muller

    Frau Muller President of Dick Button Appreciation Club

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2005
    Messages:
    7,875
    I thought that she was married to Morozov, their coach (& her former partner). Ir maybe she still is and I am too old fashioned. :lol:
  20. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2002
    Messages:
    13,885
    They referred to each other as husband and wife in the common law sense. It was a long term relationship. I am assuming it's over now. :rofl:
  21. kwanatic

    kwanatic Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2011
    Messages:
    1,925
    So is Alena going to have to change her music? I thought the allowance of vocal music didn't go into effect until the 2014-2015 season...I distinctly heard lyrics in that music.
  22. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2008
    Messages:
    2,769
    Well, Morozov got away with it with Amodio, so why shouldn't Alena try her luck? Maybe the judges will be completely deaf and won't notice the lyrics. :) (Actually, is it the judges or the tech spec who is supposed to give downgrades for music?)
  23. kirkbiggestfan

    kirkbiggestfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2003
    Messages:
    2,223
    He used vocals for V/T last year at the same time for evanescence SP and replaced it by that horrible version for competitions. Expect more of the same here.
  24. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2010
    Messages:
    1,826
    I watched Sinitsina and Zhiganshin's tango FD again and I hope they change it. I know that Kustarova has no idea what she's doing and thus has them follow in Davis and White's footsteps, but this is too much. They are too young to do a tango in the way that it is meant to be done. I was left feeling a little empty inside because I didn't feel any of the heat that I associate with the dance.
  25. babayaga

    babayaga Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2010
    Messages:
    434
    An insider from Morozov group said on the Russian forum that they only used lyrics for the test skates and will change it for competitions.
  26. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2001
    Messages:
    25,227
  27. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2010
    Messages:
    1,826
  28. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2009
    Messages:
    6,355
    Wow - so they are even more like Davis and White than anyone can ever hope for!!!
    Cherub721 and (deleted member) like this.
  29. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2001
    Messages:
    25,227
    So far I have watched M&R(LP), V&T(SP), B&L(SP), and Plushenko(LP).

    I have already commented on M&R.

    V&T - always awesome split double/triple twist and throw. I found their music a bit jarring.

    B&L- this music really needs light colors. Vera looks stunning in her lines and posture. Yuri is basically there to showcase her, and from that viewpoint he did OK (although I almost always prefer pairs where the man is also expressive).

    Plushenko- What can I say? The guy is tireless. The jumps were not perfect (although how many 30 year olds can do 3A's the way he did in this performance?), but nobody can question his heart which is clearly set on Sochi 2014 right now. I really hope he gets his wish to compete there and skate two solid performances- SP & LP. If he does that, it won't matter if he medals or not. He is being prudent, not pushing himself too much too soon. It's wise to pace himself, that is skip the GPs and focus on the prize (2014 Olympics).
  30. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2002
    Messages:
    13,885
    :rofl:
  31. love_skate2011

    love_skate2011 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2011
    Messages:
    1,476
    Diva Vera and her manservant :drama:
  32. kwanatic

    kwanatic Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2011
    Messages:
    1,925
    Was Liza T not at that test session? I haven't seen any videos of her...
  33. love_skate2011

    love_skate2011 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2011
    Messages:
    1,476
  34. Karpenko

    Karpenko Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2003
    Messages:
    9,110
    Poor guy, he has done so much to support her I'm sure they are still great friends though. It's still just really odd. :lol: (but not surprising ;))

    I must be the only one (haven't seen SP yet, but it cant be as bad as last years can it?), but I think their LP has incredible potential. When they get in peak shape their lines and overall perfection will make this music come to life and I could see it being a signature program of theirs. The music suits the subtleties in their skating, I like that last reverse split handstand lift a lot too, I think that will be stunning at the end of the program later in the season.

    The only thing I didn't like was that really obvious ending. She doesn't die does she? :confused: It doesn't have to be so literal like that lol, they could come up with something that has a bit more flow, like maybe add some kind of knee spin while she :drama: falls back for 8 seconds in slow motion like that.
  35. Kasey

    Kasey Loving on babies!

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2004
    Messages:
    11,799
    It is kind of sad to me, the people who voice total disappointment in EVERY program they have seen so far this season. Every program has potential, and every skater and program has it's good points. God knows there are some skaters that I wouldn't want a steady diet of, but there is something good, entertaining, amusing, whatever to be found in every performance for me. For people who find absolutely NOTHING to their satisfaction or their liking, I feel sorry for them and wonder why they still watch figure skating at all.

    That said, I think that there are some interesting and not so interesting programs, some with more potential than others, but very little that has no redeeming value whatsoever.
  36. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2010
    Messages:
    1,826
    Lol they don't have that near reckless speed. I think that for that to happen, Kustarova would bend Victoria's back so far forward that she'd look like she was doing an A spin (aka the dog pissing position)...
  37. rfisher

    rfisher Satisfied skating fan

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2005
    Messages:
    40,355

    Um, some of us quite liked the SP. I, personally, think it's smoking hot and will score very well for them.
  38. martyross

    martyross New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    899
    really? cool.. War and Peace has been never used before as a theme, right?
    i would like to know more about this choice.. is there more info in the article?
    i love that SD.. beautiful Russian music!
  39. Domshabfan

    Domshabfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2009
    Messages:
    5,019
    Though piece of music was used by Khoklova/Andreev in their SD...
  40. martyross

    martyross New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    899
    i'll check then! :)
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.