From Russia With Love - Autumn 2012

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, Sep 12, 2012.

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  1. love_skate2011

    love_skate2011 Well-Known Member

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    she doubled her 3R ?

    but still commendable she had no falls considering she was injured
    I was never that worried about her or Julia, they seem to have the mental strength unlike Adelina who I'm sorry to say is the weakest of the three mentally :(
     
  2. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah doubled the 3R and omitted the three jump combo
     
  3. love_skate2011

    love_skate2011 Well-Known Member

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    No 3-3 I don't think she can win Skate Canada, Gold is probably a lock,
    but she could still podium :cheer2: with Akiko
     
  4. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

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    You think that Gracie will beat Tuk? I'm not sure - I haven't seen Gracie's programs this year.

    Also, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKXLDAyrfh4&feature=plcp
    Stepanova and Bukin's SD - they changed the lift to something less attractive that still gets them level 4
    Level 3 on steps and on patterns and twizzles - level 4 on everything else
     
  5. Domshabfan

    Domshabfan Searching for Cizeron's Instagram

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    Liza can still do 7 triples routine if she changes her 2A at the end of the program for 3T, since she is already doing 2A+3T. On top of that Liza already does a 3T+3T in the SP. Though she would have to land at least 6 triples to win. I have to see Gold perform again since Gold did falter in her international senior debut last year. I think both the girls will have to go clean for any chance to win the title.
     
  6. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

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    To be fair, Gold had to add 30 seconds to her program between JW and WTT
    Anyway, I think that Liza will go back to her normal jump content eventually
    (3Lz-3T, 3F, 3Lo, 2A-3T, 3S-2T-2Lo, 2A) and maybe add a triple axel some time.
     
  7. Jammers

    Jammers Well-Known Member

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    Julia hasn't gone through the growth spurts that Adelina for instance has gone through. Next year might be her year to have to struggle because right now she's still tiny. That won't last.
     
  8. love_skate2011

    love_skate2011 Well-Known Member

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    Julia is growing already in cms, her coach even mentions in interview and Julia said herself in her sparshavai

    mental fortitude I think cannot be taught though, consistency is what makes winners which I'm afraid Adelina doesn't have atm ( most will agree Adelina is the most beatable of the three), Tuk is growing right now but she has handled it better than Adelina last season
     
  9. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

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    The thing is that Tuk has the best technique on jumps, so she's likely to be the one to survive puberty out of the three if only one can.
     
  10. love_skate2011

    love_skate2011 Well-Known Member

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    Technique alone won't help if you are not mentally tough
    Adelina had good technique too other than her flutz, Julia has good technique
    also besides her flutz and 2A, her jumps actually got bigger this season. Radionova has very clean edges although sometimes her landings can be clunky

    what separates Tuk and Julia imo are they just have more toughness, If you look even in 2009 videos, Julia rarely even falls on her jumps.

    Adelina needs some sort of psychologist, she suffers the same with Kanako
    they usually crumble at Free Skates

    there are many elite skaters than have not so good technique yet are successful because of consistency Lysacek or Lambiel ?
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2012
  11. Maofan7

    Maofan7 Member

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    I thought it was an excellent free skate from Liza given that it was her season debut and that she has only just returned from a knee injury. She has obviously been off the ice for a while and lost some training time as a result. The competition she was up against was not that tough, and she was obviously using the event as a warm up for Skate Canada and was getting rid of some rust. When you look at the SP and LP together, all of the jumps are there - 3Z, 3F, 2A, 3S, 3R, 3T. She landed them all. She obviously went out with the intention of just doing a 3Zx2T combination, but she certainly looked as though she could have done the 3Zx3T if she had wanted to. However, given the nature of the competition she was up against, she simply did not need it. Moreover, she showed in the SP, that she has the 3Tx3T as a back up. Yes, she doubled out on the 3R in the LP, but she landed a very good one in the SP. The only other minor error was that she missed the final element of her 3Sx2Tx2R combination. However, she can do that combination normally in her sleep. All in all, therefore, a very good season debut.

    Did you see Gracie Gold at the International Figure Skating Classic and Skate Detroit? She struggled in both events, losing to Agnes Zawadzki and Hannah Miller respectively. Both Gracie and Liza have had their problems and its far too early in the season to be making predictions. Both, however, have shown good potential despite their problems.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2012
  12. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    It most definitely can.
     
  13. triple_toe

    triple_toe Well-Known Member

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    It can certain be improved but no matter how many sessions with a sports psych you have, some people will always be an Czisny, not a Kwan. That's not to say nervous skaters won't have magnificent skates, but they will never have that internal love for competition. It'll always be more about calming down and controlling nerves instead of thriving on the pressure.
     
  14. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    And some skaters will learn triple jumps easily and for others it will be an extremely tough ordeal. Some skater have an affinity for spinning, others hate it because it makes them dizzy.

    You might be predisposed more or less to a certain activity. But that does not mean that you aren't able to acquire the relevant skillset.

    And none of us actually know what is going on in Czisny's and Kwan's heads. How much of their success/failure was down to environmental and how much to personal factors. How much they did or didn't work on their mental skills, whether in a formal or an informal setting. And how much of their success is down to good/bad coaching.

    As far as Czisny is concerned, I'd guess that technical issues play a very big role. She has always had horrific jumping technique. It has been slightly corrected but is still terrible. Pretty hard to land jumps consistently when even at her 100%, they are rather :scream:.

    Most people seem to perceive physical fortitude as something that can be easily trained with enough effort but they don't perceive mental fortitude in the same way, when exactly the same logic applies there as well.
     
  15. jdonavan

    jdonavan Member

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    I disagree with your estimation that the career of the athlete falls on the shoulders of the coach. Skaters at some point need to take responsibility for their performances. Abbot, Rippon and Czisny have all had numerous coaches, but the issues remain the same. You can lead a horse to water but you cant force it to drink.


    Her technique isnt that off actually IMO - the axel is the worst
     
  16. Hedwig

    Hedwig Rarely here anymore but I try to be better!

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    This is not what Ziggy said. Maybe try to read it again in context. :)
     
  17. jdonavan

    jdonavan Member

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    yep, I missed the point, thanks and sorry!
     
  18. TAHbKA

    TAHbKA Well-Known Member

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    Ilushechkina's interview for sport-ru by Oxana Shkrebtienko

    OS: Luba, what was the main reason for your switch?
    LI: I want to enjoy the skating and not feel it's a must. I wanted to change everything including my attitude towards figure skating.

    OS: Were you successful?
    LI: It's hard to tell yet, we have just started. Nevertheless I like the way we work. We have two new programmes. Not everything was clean during the competition, so there is still a lot of work to be done.

    OS: How did you find Yannic?
    LI: Through the internet. I emailed, he replied and we agreed on the terms.

    OS: What kind of partner is he? Do you suit each other? After all it's not something you'd figure through the internet.
    LI: Yes, that is what I worried about, but am incredibly comfortable with Yannic. I tried some elements with other partners but never felt so comfortable. It's very important for the pairs skating and am thrilled things are working for us.

    OS: What are your relationship outside the ice rink? Are you friends? Do you spend time together?
    LI: We are good friends. Yannic helps me a lot to get around in the new country, to find a flat, helps me with all the paper work. He had a birthday party and invited me there as well.

    OS: Which language do you usually speak to him and the coach? How is your French?
    LI: We usually speak English out of habit, though recently I try switching to French. I'm studying the language for 4-6 hours a day towards the exam. I study from the books without any teachers. There is a progress - I started understanding and being comprehensive!

    OS: The French FS team is very united and fun. How were you accepted, who did you become friends with, how do you feel there?
    LI: Indeed the team is friendly. I like the atmosphere - everyone cheers for each other, wish luck before the competitions. I feel very comfortable, the guys support me a lot and try to help me. I'm very grateful for them!

    OS: How long will you be sitting out?
    LI: It's not decided yet, but we do everything within our power to make the sit out as short as possible. In the mean while we plan to compete the FFSG competitions. The next one is the French Nationals in December.
     
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  19. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for translating! I'm glad that she's happier! (Although I do wish that they could have worked with Moskvina)
     
  20. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Vera

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    I still wish that she had given her fed a chance and worked with Moskvina, when they made her an offer (with another partner). She wanted a change (understandable, under the circumstances, from whatever tidbits I read) and she made a HUGE change- dumping her country. I think when Anissina left for France, she did not have such bitterness toward her (former) country. Others have gone to skate for other countries without making so many waves. That makes me wonder if Lubov really is mentally strong, or will she get upset with her new partner and new surroundings, once the honeymoon is over? One thing is certain. In France she will not have the pressure to win an OGM, the way she would have had in Russia and that may just help her win titles. Is she the next Anissina, to drive an arrow through the hearts of RSF?

    The Russian pairs field does not appear as deep as it did 12-18 months ago. With the breakup of I&M, injury to B&L (and their somewhat disappointing performances), Moskvina not having a top pair, and M&R being very inconsistent, Russia has to rely solely on V&T. I would love to see K&S win a title, but that does not seem likely at this point, and they will certainly retire after the 2014 Olympics. The junior pairs are very young, which means anything can happen. Can S&K become title contenders in a couple of years? With COP in place, they may have a chance if they are just consistent in their technical elements.
     
  21. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

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    When was this ever on the table and who were the partner they had line up for her? I don't recall Moskvina ever saying she was willing to take a new student especially since she will retire from coaching after 2014.

    I think Lubov went to the best partner she saw out there at the time not wanting to end up like Mukhortova.
     
  22. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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    Hung on! We don't know what was going on during the practices. You say that you wish she gave Russian Federation a chance to pair her up with someone else. How do we know whether they were aware of the problems between her and her coach in the first place? If they were aware and did nothing, I wouldn't trust them either! It is so easy to judge someone when we are on the outside, but in the situation she was, she was completely dependent on both her coach and Russian Federation. If she was unhappy and wanted to change, I am sure she would have thought about it for a long time. It is not as easy to just swap a country and move away. She must have been quite desperate. As we are not in her situation, we shouldn't make the judgements you made. Look at your situation - you have a right to change your employer if you are not happy (and I am sure the majority of people won't stay all their life with one employer). Why it should be any different for the athlete?
     
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  23. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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    As dark as you see the situation, there is still Volosozhar-Trankov and Kavaguti-Smirnov. I am not sure how it appeared 12-18 months ago, but the fact is that the Russians still have reigning gold, silver and bronze medallist from this (2012) year, so the field can't be that weak. The fact that their number 3 (Bazarova - Larionov) is injured is not going to change much, because they still have Stolbova-Klimov and there are constantly more pairs getting ready (on junior level 3 pairs qualified into JGPF). If you watch the Russian nationals in December, you may find that their situation is stronger than any other country in the world.
     
  24. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Vera

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    I am actually looking beyond this year and 2014. I think V&T and K&S will retire after Sochi. Who will carry the torch? I just don't think B&L will. They are very good, and I love Vera's positions, but I don't see them as championship caliber (same with K&S- I love them but they may not win a world title). I am not sold on S&K yet. The Russians may still have more choices than most other countries (except may be China), but I really want to see great Russian pairs like we did in the past.
     
  25. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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    After 2014 Bazarova hopefully won't be injured. They are silver medallist at Europeans, so they should do fine in the future and I doubt they want to retire after the Olympics. Stolbova-Klimov looks promising too. Maisuradze has a new partner, so after 2014 she could be reasonably decent. Martiusheva-Rogonov are not consistent, but they still are there and one shouldn't discount them. They were silver medallist at junior worlds a few years ago, so we never know. In juniors they have currently several promising pairs, such as last years junior worlds bronze medallist Davankova-Deputat. In addition to them two other junior pairs managed to get to JGPF. I know that you are searching for the next 'great' pair, but I think it is too early to say for anyone, not only for young Russians. But Russians have definitely more to choose from than the other countries, so I wouldn't worry about them.
     
  26. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    Gordeeva and GrinkOv and b/s just may never be repeated not even at 50%!!
     
  27. love_skate2011

    love_skate2011 Well-Known Member

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    are Vera and Yuri that injured ? :confused: wasn't there a recent interview that said Vera would have even competed in the LP at Nebelhorn had she had a good massage and they are still listed in CoR and NHK:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vera_Bazarova

    though I don't they can be a Top Russian pair, Stolbova/Klimov have improved
    they have big jumps and I like their programs this season
     
  28. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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    Maybe Tarasova-Morozov have a great future ahead of them...even if it is just because of the surnames.
     
  29. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

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  30. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Vera

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    Sadly, you may be right. Pairs skating has changed so much that even if there are skaters with great skating skills, they could be limited by the COP rules.
     
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