From Russia With Love - Autumn 2012

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, Sep 12, 2012.

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  1. martyross

    martyross New Member

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    i wonder if seeing how well BobSoloviev are doing, the Russian fed will change tune and go for them instead of I-K. after all B-S are much more mature, experienced and show a strong will to work and improve. they are on the rise. on a minor side, they have beautiful programs that capture the audience and are well received by the judges, who place them higher than WP on PCS. i kind of doubt that IK programs will have the same impact.
  2. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    It all depends on the worlds of b/s. If they flop there a third time no way!
  3. DaiKozOda

    DaiKozOda Active Member

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    Sorry but I don't resist asking this: Wasn't Dmitry Soloviev married and with a child?
    If you look at his FB it seems he's together with Ksenia Stolbova.

    Anyway, B&S FD is growing on me but I'm still not to convinced with the Tosca music mixed with Ennio Morricone.
    Hope Ilinykh & Katsalapov show good programs at the Cup of Russia and I'm super curious about their scores :p
  4. Jemestone

    Jemestone New Member

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    ^Was is the key word there. He and Stolbova are together now ;)
  5. DaiKozOda

    DaiKozOda Active Member

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    Ok. I had missed that one lool. They make a really cute couple :)
  6. babayaga

    babayaga Active Member

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    Wow, is that really true? When did this happen?
  7. Jemestone

    Jemestone New Member

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    ^Don't know but everywhere you look there are photos of the two of them, twitter, instagram, facebook. On their formspring they said the other person makes them happy. Cute :swoon:
  8. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    I am sort of glad for Lipnitskaya's loss in China. She still has so much to work on. Her flow was horrible and is in my opinion one of the major issues she will have to address if she is to have any shot at Sochi. Another issue is the very visible lack of maturity and musicality. Everyone is drawing Cohen analogies but for me the more immediate analogy is Zhang really (and that's not a good thing).
  9. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    I don't think there's any need to lose to learn! I think the 64 PCS for Mao and 57 for Lipnitskaia clearly indicated huge and severe problems Lipnitskaia has.
  10. pinky166

    pinky166 Well-Known Member

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    The icenetwork videos from Skate Canada are up, and I must say, watching the ladies programs again, I am feeling more optimistic about Tuk and as for Shelepen, she has regressed a lot, seemed very sloppy, but it was very noticeable that she was skating very slowly and gingerly, kind of limping, as she got off the ice for both programs, so I'm thinking she's probably battling some kind of injury and that was likely why she didn't care about her scores being so low. Hopefully she will improve later in the season, but I noticed particularly how slow her spins are, some of her positions she hits in them are nice/flexible, but they just all seemed so slow and labored, as did her overall skating. To me she definitely looks to have grown taller, though perhaps she's just filled out and the costumes with the long skirts and white boots give the illusion of her being taller than before. I admire her gutsiness going for all those 3-3s but she has a lot of work to do ATM.

    As for Tuk I didn't realize how strong of a FS she had, it was really quite good. The fall on the 2nd lutz was nasty, but the first lutz was a beauty, and even though some of the other triples looked small/tight, the 2a-3t in the 2nd half of the program looked really good. Plus on that video, it seems like her puberty issues/growth spurt is maybe a couple inches in height and then some weight gained in her lower body - mostly the legs, which could just be due to increased strength training as it looks like muscle weight and not really a drastic change to her physique as some seemed to think. So I think she is still very much in the mix to shake things up at Nationals and go to Euros and Worlds this season, maybe even medal there. Time will tell but considering her injury I thought she was skating pretty well. And comparing her to Julia even with the injury and puberty struggles her jumps are still better technique wise and at least a little bigger (the 2a in particular). The thing I noticed the most about Julia watching that FS where she "struggled" is that her jumps are sort of at a standstill, not a lot of flow coming out. She does a good job making her jump exits neat and tidy (when the jumps are straight in the air), but she doesn't get a good running edge out and doesn't carry a lot of speed into the jump, which makes me worry about what will happen when puberty hits. The technique is solid enough but right now she's relying on quick rotation to get around and is really muscling those jumps, which also makes me worry about injuries.
  11. love_skate2011

    love_skate2011 Well-Known Member

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    Soloviev has divorced and is now with Ksenia Stolbova
  12. martyross

    martyross New Member

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    well, is it really a shocking news that a 14 years old has no artistry and musicality yet? or do we expect her to skate like a mature 25 year older? i hope people know how difficult is to emote while doing all sort of technical difficulties. it takes years of training before mastering everyting.
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  13. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    There are 14-year-olds who might not be fully formed, but have the signs of the artist they'll become as young as that. Sasha Cohen, for example, was one who showed it quite early, even if she never had the technical facility that Lipnitskaia has now. Ice dancers often show signs of that spark at a very young age.
  14. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    Her capabity already far exceeds her age. However, I feel it's way too pre-mature to hype her up as a potential Sochi contender like many have. Once she learns to gain more power, musicality and maturity, she will likely be able to dominate (or co-dominate) the ladies in the next quad, probably along with Sotnikova, Tuk, Polina K and Radionova.

    (and what kwanfan said - phenoms like Kwan, Lipinski, Kim, Asada already showed much star quality at 14)
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2012
  15. love_skate2011

    love_skate2011 Well-Known Member

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    agree, people are hammering her like all she has is flexibility which is completely false because Julia is very talented, I was impressed by her drive and how she was pissed off and unhappy at K&C, she wants to Win !, people are not giving her credit that Julia has handled the senior and pressure really well for a 14 year old
  16. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    She must be psychic because the mistakes she made on her first 2 jumping passes were JUST enough to bump her down from gold to silver. :p
  17. martyross

    martyross New Member

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    yea to me she's not boring to watch at all! i like the strong spirit she shows in her skating, something i've always loved in Ashley. i enjoy seeing skaters with strong personality. i also find she's improved a lot from last year. the SP reminded me of Irina S. pure power is enjoyable as opposed to lyricism and gracefulness that is a more common route for ladies. i like her, she's tough!
  18. babayaga

    babayaga Active Member

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  19. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

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    Lol they kept the voiceovers
    Although I have to say that, even without the voiceovers, it feels lacking in transitions and non-element choreography.
  20. Karpenko

    Karpenko Well-Known Member

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    It has a nice buildup emotionally but it really is god-awful. I expect their scores to go up though because their skating does look improved. They have a lot more flow and speed over the ice. But yeah... pass.

    But on the flip side, after viewing this program I instantly liked Fusar-Poli/Margaglio's 2001 FD a lot more and am now at peace with that program winning a world title. :shuffle:
  21. IoanaC

    IoanaC Active Member

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    And they scored 102 points for THAT? :rolleyes:
    Generally they have good flow, yes, but they need to work on unison in the step sequences, they looked laboured and skated too far apart.
    Plus, the music is a hot mess, choreo almost non-existent. They deserve much better.
  22. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    ugh, that was almost unwatchable.
  23. casken

    casken Well-Known Member

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    God that is depressing. I think that program has less original in between choreography than D&W's FD. A pretty impressive feat indeed.
  24. love_skate2011

    love_skate2011 Well-Known Member

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    Burn Morozov :soapbox:

    on a good side, some really nice pictures of Soloviev and Stolbova on their instagrams
  25. znhurston

    znhurston Member

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    They certainly do!
  26. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    This! Julia is fantastic. Sure she can work on some stuff, but I enjoy her a lot and hate reading all the comments about how she is the most clunky, awkward, unmusical skater ever. It's like I'm watching totally different programs.

    Lol it's like a junior high Disney on Ice production. Oh God, WHY?
  27. alilou

    alilou Crazy Stalker Lady

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    Now I know to not bother to try to watch it. Thank you :) (Delhi hotel has remarkably constant wifi, but slow, so watching vids is a bit iffy).
  28. Finnice

    Finnice Well-Known Member

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    Sadly, that is true. It will be interesting to see if it is any better live. I simply loathe the music, too. What a waste of talent.:(
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  29. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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    It was like an exhibition program. Maybe they will change it?
  30. MarieM

    MarieM Well-Known Member

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    Oh. I wish I&K would have stayed with Sasha Zhulin .... What a horrible FD :(
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  31. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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    I wish they went to Spilband...
  32. MarieM

    MarieM Well-Known Member

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    OMG NO WAY !!!! Not that. Even that would be just awfull. I'd rather have them with Mozov.
  33. morqet

    morqet Active Member

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    I would be interested to know why everyone thinks it's such a disaster - I hate the music, especially once the talking kicks in, but I think the choreo seems alright; last minute or so needs refining but I'd say it's a step up from lsat seasons effort.
  34. Evilynn

    Evilynn ((Swedish skating dudes))

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    The voice over-parts gives me such acute embarrassment by proxy that I couldn't really watch it, but the first bit seems alright, even if I'm no fan of the music. The voice overs though :yikes:
  35. babayaga

    babayaga Active Member

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    I agree, I would be interested to read what people think why this dance is not good. I personally haven't decided yet what to think about it. They look powerful and fast, but maybe because the program is a little empty. The scene with the shooting to me is indeed unwatchable, but the first small dialog felt interesting and fresh. I guess we will see in a few days what it looks like in good quality.
  36. Cloudy_Gumdrops

    Cloudy_Gumdrops New Member

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    I personally like the dance. The music is grating as is, but wouldn't be so bad if they'd take out the spoken stuff.
  37. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    As of right now I prefer last year's because it at least had a few memorable things for me like the mirror twizzles and the straightline lift with her parallel to the ice.

    Of course we have yet to really see the Ghost FD in closeup/TV quality so it's hard to say. As others have said, it's quite empty. This is like the type of generic program that Chock/Bates would do (but at least they have good music, so sorry, MarieM, I too think Shpilband would be an improvement!). The costumes are dull and shapeless which does not add to the overall impression. The lifts are very blah and look recycled or at least variations on their previous moves. I am surprised if these are level 4 and if they are, credit to Morozov for finding what appears to be the easiest route to level 4. It's not just that the voiceovers are bad but the actual choreography during the speaking parts is really bad too; they just kind of wave their arms around and emote. I just can't believe this is the same team that showed the depth of expression that they did in Schindler's List. It's like they've regressed from senior to novice, program wise. I've never seen anything like it in skating to be honest.
  38. martyross

    martyross New Member

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    choreography is totally generic, nothing new and impressive, just the basic language of ice dance, trite romantic theme seen millions of times. use of some catchy elevator music with added voices that makes it look pretentious, a cheap way to cover the banality of it all with fake "innovation". Morozov's lack of talent is embarassing. but the kids are good, and this stuff will gather lots of points. after all, winning doesn't require presenting something special. one can fake some simple romantic feelings and get 8,75 in interpretation just because the other PC marks are already high. all that matters is that they're Russian and they must be pushed to the podium, who cares about the rest?
  39. Braulio

    Braulio Well-Known Member

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    Disappointing program from Ilinikh-Katsalapov

    I agree, how they were so good at the junior level and just regressed while going to senior?

    :(
  40. bmcg

    bmcg Well-Known Member

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    I like I&K as skaters so I watched it a few times without the music just to see the movement and choreography without the distraction of the soundtrack. The choreography is also disappointing, no interesting movement, no beautiful movements, I failed to gain anything positive from just watching them skate. I also found that the soundtrack (and all that is going on in the soundtrack) adds to the illusion they are doing more with their skating and moving quicker, without the noise I found it to drag in parts. So there is no interesting choreography there and they aren't really doing anything that any other top ten team can do, their lifts are unimpressive: add that horrible soundtrack and I just can NOT understand what Morozov was thinking because this man has gone on record stating that if they don't medal this year he is done with icedance.

    I can't decide if he is serious with this program? Is it a joke he is playing on us? On I&K? Or whether he has something to prove about ice dance ie..if THAT program gets this team a medal at Worlds it can only be due to corruption.
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