From Russia With Love - Autumn 2012

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, Sep 12, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Maofan7

    Maofan7 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2011
    Messages:
    5,473
    I thought it was an excellent free skate from Liza given that it was her season debut and that she has only just returned from a knee injury. She has obviously been off the ice for a while and lost some training time as a result. The competition she was up against was not that tough, and she was obviously using the event as a warm up for Skate Canada and was getting rid of some rust. When you look at the SP and LP together, all of the jumps are there - 3Z, 3F, 2A, 3S, 3R, 3T. She landed them all. She obviously went out with the intention of just doing a 3Zx2T combination, but she certainly looked as though she could have done the 3Zx3T if she had wanted to. However, given the nature of the competition she was up against, she simply did not need it. Moreover, she showed in the SP, that she has the 3Tx3T as a back up. Yes, she doubled out on the 3R in the LP, but she landed a very good one in the SP. The only other minor error was that she missed the final element of her 3Sx2Tx2R combination. However, she can do that combination normally in her sleep. All in all, therefore, a very good season debut.

    Did you see Gracie Gold at the International Figure Skating Classic and Skate Detroit? She struggled in both events, losing to Agnes Zawadzki and Hannah Miller respectively. Both Gracie and Liza have had their problems and its far too early in the season to be making predictions. Both, however, have shown good potential despite their problems.
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2012
  2. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2002
    Messages:
    20,569
    It most definitely can.
  3. triple_toe

    triple_toe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2005
    Messages:
    1,172
    It can certain be improved but no matter how many sessions with a sports psych you have, some people will always be an Czisny, not a Kwan. That's not to say nervous skaters won't have magnificent skates, but they will never have that internal love for competition. It'll always be more about calming down and controlling nerves instead of thriving on the pressure.
  4. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2002
    Messages:
    20,569
    And some skaters will learn triple jumps easily and for others it will be an extremely tough ordeal. Some skater have an affinity for spinning, others hate it because it makes them dizzy.

    You might be predisposed more or less to a certain activity. But that does not mean that you aren't able to acquire the relevant skillset.

    And none of us actually know what is going on in Czisny's and Kwan's heads. How much of their success/failure was down to environmental and how much to personal factors. How much they did or didn't work on their mental skills, whether in a formal or an informal setting. And how much of their success is down to good/bad coaching.

    As far as Czisny is concerned, I'd guess that technical issues play a very big role. She has always had horrific jumping technique. It has been slightly corrected but is still terrible. Pretty hard to land jumps consistently when even at her 100%, they are rather :scream:.

    Most people seem to perceive physical fortitude as something that can be easily trained with enough effort but they don't perceive mental fortitude in the same way, when exactly the same logic applies there as well.
  5. jdonavan

    jdonavan New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2006
    Messages:
    193
    I disagree with your estimation that the career of the athlete falls on the shoulders of the coach. Skaters at some point need to take responsibility for their performances. Abbot, Rippon and Czisny have all had numerous coaches, but the issues remain the same. You can lead a horse to water but you cant force it to drink.


    Her technique isnt that off actually IMO - the axel is the worst
  6. Hedwig

    Hedwig New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2006
    Messages:
    17,416
    This is not what Ziggy said. Maybe try to read it again in context. :)
  7. jdonavan

    jdonavan New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2006
    Messages:
    193
    yep, I missed the point, thanks and sorry!
  8. TAHbKA

    TAHbKA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2002
    Messages:
    8,760
    Ilushechkina's interview for sport-ru by Oxana Shkrebtienko

    OS: Luba, what was the main reason for your switch?
    LI: I want to enjoy the skating and not feel it's a must. I wanted to change everything including my attitude towards figure skating.

    OS: Were you successful?
    LI: It's hard to tell yet, we have just started. Nevertheless I like the way we work. We have two new programmes. Not everything was clean during the competition, so there is still a lot of work to be done.

    OS: How did you find Yannic?
    LI: Through the internet. I emailed, he replied and we agreed on the terms.

    OS: What kind of partner is he? Do you suit each other? After all it's not something you'd figure through the internet.
    LI: Yes, that is what I worried about, but am incredibly comfortable with Yannic. I tried some elements with other partners but never felt so comfortable. It's very important for the pairs skating and am thrilled things are working for us.

    OS: What are your relationship outside the ice rink? Are you friends? Do you spend time together?
    LI: We are good friends. Yannic helps me a lot to get around in the new country, to find a flat, helps me with all the paper work. He had a birthday party and invited me there as well.

    OS: Which language do you usually speak to him and the coach? How is your French?
    LI: We usually speak English out of habit, though recently I try switching to French. I'm studying the language for 4-6 hours a day towards the exam. I study from the books without any teachers. There is a progress - I started understanding and being comprehensive!

    OS: The French FS team is very united and fun. How were you accepted, who did you become friends with, how do you feel there?
    LI: Indeed the team is friendly. I like the atmosphere - everyone cheers for each other, wish luck before the competitions. I feel very comfortable, the guys support me a lot and try to help me. I'm very grateful for them!

    OS: How long will you be sitting out?
    LI: It's not decided yet, but we do everything within our power to make the sit out as short as possible. In the mean while we plan to compete the FFSG competitions. The next one is the French Nationals in December.
    alilou and (deleted member) like this.
  9. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2010
    Messages:
    1,824
    Thanks for translating! I'm glad that she's happier! (Although I do wish that they could have worked with Moskvina)
  10. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2001
    Messages:
    25,089
    I still wish that she had given her fed a chance and worked with Moskvina, when they made her an offer (with another partner). She wanted a change (understandable, under the circumstances, from whatever tidbits I read) and she made a HUGE change- dumping her country. I think when Anissina left for France, she did not have such bitterness toward her (former) country. Others have gone to skate for other countries without making so many waves. That makes me wonder if Lubov really is mentally strong, or will she get upset with her new partner and new surroundings, once the honeymoon is over? One thing is certain. In France she will not have the pressure to win an OGM, the way she would have had in Russia and that may just help her win titles. Is she the next Anissina, to drive an arrow through the hearts of RSF?

    The Russian pairs field does not appear as deep as it did 12-18 months ago. With the breakup of I&M, injury to B&L (and their somewhat disappointing performances), Moskvina not having a top pair, and M&R being very inconsistent, Russia has to rely solely on V&T. I would love to see K&S win a title, but that does not seem likely at this point, and they will certainly retire after the 2014 Olympics. The junior pairs are very young, which means anything can happen. Can S&K become title contenders in a couple of years? With COP in place, they may have a chance if they are just consistent in their technical elements.
  11. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2010
    Messages:
    3,537
    When was this ever on the table and who were the partner they had line up for her? I don't recall Moskvina ever saying she was willing to take a new student especially since she will retire from coaching after 2014.

    I think Lubov went to the best partner she saw out there at the time not wanting to end up like Mukhortova.
  12. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2008
    Messages:
    2,739
    Hung on! We don't know what was going on during the practices. You say that you wish she gave Russian Federation a chance to pair her up with someone else. How do we know whether they were aware of the problems between her and her coach in the first place? If they were aware and did nothing, I wouldn't trust them either! It is so easy to judge someone when we are on the outside, but in the situation she was, she was completely dependent on both her coach and Russian Federation. If she was unhappy and wanted to change, I am sure she would have thought about it for a long time. It is not as easy to just swap a country and move away. She must have been quite desperate. As we are not in her situation, we shouldn't make the judgements you made. Look at your situation - you have a right to change your employer if you are not happy (and I am sure the majority of people won't stay all their life with one employer). Why it should be any different for the athlete?
    Hedwig and (deleted member) like this.
  13. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2008
    Messages:
    2,739
    As dark as you see the situation, there is still Volosozhar-Trankov and Kavaguti-Smirnov. I am not sure how it appeared 12-18 months ago, but the fact is that the Russians still have reigning gold, silver and bronze medallist from this (2012) year, so the field can't be that weak. The fact that their number 3 (Bazarova - Larionov) is injured is not going to change much, because they still have Stolbova-Klimov and there are constantly more pairs getting ready (on junior level 3 pairs qualified into JGPF). If you watch the Russian nationals in December, you may find that their situation is stronger than any other country in the world.
  14. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2001
    Messages:
    25,089
    I am actually looking beyond this year and 2014. I think V&T and K&S will retire after Sochi. Who will carry the torch? I just don't think B&L will. They are very good, and I love Vera's positions, but I don't see them as championship caliber (same with K&S- I love them but they may not win a world title). I am not sold on S&K yet. The Russians may still have more choices than most other countries (except may be China), but I really want to see great Russian pairs like we did in the past.
  15. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2008
    Messages:
    2,739
    After 2014 Bazarova hopefully won't be injured. They are silver medallist at Europeans, so they should do fine in the future and I doubt they want to retire after the Olympics. Stolbova-Klimov looks promising too. Maisuradze has a new partner, so after 2014 she could be reasonably decent. Martiusheva-Rogonov are not consistent, but they still are there and one shouldn't discount them. They were silver medallist at junior worlds a few years ago, so we never know. In juniors they have currently several promising pairs, such as last years junior worlds bronze medallist Davankova-Deputat. In addition to them two other junior pairs managed to get to JGPF. I know that you are searching for the next 'great' pair, but I think it is too early to say for anyone, not only for young Russians. But Russians have definitely more to choose from than the other countries, so I wouldn't worry about them.
  16. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2009
    Messages:
    6,341
    Gordeeva and GrinkOv and b/s just may never be repeated not even at 50%!!
  17. love_skate2011

    love_skate2011 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2011
    Messages:
    1,470
    are Vera and Yuri that injured ? :confused: wasn't there a recent interview that said Vera would have even competed in the LP at Nebelhorn had she had a good massage and they are still listed in CoR and NHK:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vera_Bazarova

    though I don't they can be a Top Russian pair, Stolbova/Klimov have improved
    they have big jumps and I like their programs this season
  18. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2008
    Messages:
    2,739
    Maybe Tarasova-Morozov have a great future ahead of them...even if it is just because of the surnames.
  19. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2010
    Messages:
    1,824
  20. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2001
    Messages:
    25,089
    Sadly, you may be right. Pairs skating has changed so much that even if there are skaters with great skating skills, they could be limited by the COP rules.
  21. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2002
    Messages:
    10,579
  22. alilou

    alilou Crazy Stalker Lady

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2005
    Messages:
    3,971
  23. TAHbKA

    TAHbKA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2002
    Messages:
    8,760
    alilou, thanks for posting, Tatjana, thanks for the article!
  24. volotrankov

    volotrankov New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2012
    Messages:
    26
    Thank you so much for the article. really nice to hear about max and tanya!!!

    Love them so much <3
  25. IRIS1975

    IRIS1975 New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2009
    Messages:
    68
  26. volotrankov

    volotrankov New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2012
    Messages:
    26
    thanks for the article about elena and nikita
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2012
  27. leapfrogonice

    leapfrogonice Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2007
    Messages:
    557
    I am puzzled by the comment that they can train to "generic" music and then expect to perform to the music which their programs are intended for? It seems ironic that this season's music has been specifically customized for the elements, which should be fascinating and unique, but why not train to it? They performed their program at the test skates last year also to different "generic" music, presumably to keep their 'real' music a secret, even though their competitors by then all had chosen their programs and music of course.

    The last sentence about their trainer threatening to quit (I know where that reference comes from) is an odd and almost paradoxical statement to the notion of "taking the world by storm."
  28. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2010
    Messages:
    1,824
    Good news - Bobrova's luggage and skates have been found, according to Russian forums.
    http://fcp-press.ru/interview/p2_articleid/5310
    Also, here is an article where Zhulin says that Dimitri was sick for a few days but is doing better. Zhulin would be really happy with second place for Bobrova and Soloviev.
  29. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2010
    Messages:
    1,824
    So Bobrova and Soloviev are in third place, as expected
    But there seems to be a consensus across almost all viewers that they have made significant improvements. Too bad the judges don't agree.
  30. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2009
    Messages:
    6,341
    LOL yeah great improvement from B/S but no placement improvement as of yet. Need to beat W/P in the FD. Show placement improvement ability.
  31. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2010
    Messages:
    1,824
    It's weird how low their components are though. At worlds last year with that god awful "latin" dance, they got more than a point higher PCS with a fall!
  32. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2010
    Messages:
    1,824
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2012
  33. TAHbKA

    TAHbKA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2002
    Messages:
    8,760
    Every time I think Morozov choreographed the worst programme ever he just goes and proves me wrong
  34. sequinsgalore

    sequinsgalore Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2009
    Messages:
    73
    What's with all the talking in the middle of the program? I get it's from the Ghost (musical), but that's just annoying.. plus there wasn't really a rhythm.

    And are they really doing a Indian/Bollywood Polka?
  35. morqet

    morqet Active Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2010
    Messages:
    939
    No, Andijan Polka is Uzbek music - it's a little similar to Indian style dancing, but not quite: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmuRmq17oG4

    The free.... I like the first minute or so when it's just using the overture from the musical - they're skating it well, there's a lovely connection, but it loses me as soon as the talking kicks in. Re-edit needed, there is enough material in the musical to make a decent dance, they're just using all the wrong parts.
  36. Jeschke

    Jeschke Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2009
    Messages:
    2,896
    oh my, these costumes must have been borrowed of gorshkova/butikov :p


    i have no words on this; very strange music cuts, drama all over the place, but to be granted, the costumes are very morozov-unlike, wonder oh wonder.
  37. TAHbKA

    TAHbKA Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2002
    Messages:
    8,760
  38. bek

    bek Guest

    I like the free better than Ave Maria... I like the first part though before the talking the best (although I love unchained melody)... They really have a lovely connection between the two of them.
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 21, 2012
  39. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2002
    Messages:
    13,858
    She is still so beautiful!

    PML oh Lord, I&K need to wd from their GP events right now citing her shoulder injury, and change coaches and programs. He cannot be serious with those programs. Send them to Zoueva for all I care. And people made fun of the voiceovers in V&M's Umbrellas, hah! Ghost the musical really? Did you ever think you'd see an FD with a voiceover that says "I'm talking to you, esse!" in some caricatured Latino voice? :lol: :lol: This is what happens when you waste all summer traveling... now there is no time to make necessary changes.

    Too bad because their skating does look somewhat improved, and he especially is such a good partner now, but their lifts are still crap and the programs are boring.

    That version of Unchained Melody is quite nice actually.... first two minutes of this program are salvageable if the talking is removed.
  40. bek

    bek Guest

    I want them to go to Igor.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.