From Russia With Love - 2012 Off Season

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Eislauffan, Apr 18, 2012.

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  1. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    It is pretty lopsided... looks like C&L will be in GPF unless they screw up bigtime. Interestingly though, if R&T do improve with Shpilband, I can see them getting two silvers and making GPF, but I&K and B&S getting two bronzes and not making it... would be interesting to see whom the Russian fed would back in that case.

    One thing that makes this lineup really boring is that if you remove P&B, V&M, and D&W, you have the same dance teams competing in two events.... I'd rather they mixed it up.
  2. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

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    Aren't capellini and lanotte moving to zueva as well?
  3. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    I had not heard that. :eek:
  4. zotza

    zotza Active Member

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    I think Skate America and Cup of China are the hardest for the top 3.I wouldn't put Davis/White in the mix in SA,but in China I wouldn't count out a big battle between P/B,W/P,B/S.B/S won the SD at Euros even if they didn't have a top notch program.(I actually think her fall at Worlds will prove to be rather benieficiary long term) W/P train alongside P/B,came close enough and I'm sure they're hungry.
    Of course all the B/S haters would love them to finish behind S/Z but I don't think they made the move to Zhulin in order to fight internally but rather finally reach the top 3 at Worlds.But again,if Kustarova is really powerful and vendictive who knows.Anyway,I have a good feeling about B/S and Zhulin especially in the psychological department.
    For R/T,if things don't get better as far speed is concerned,and some other details,I wouldn't rule out their losing against G/P.And yes it feels so strange that G/P isn't about Grishuk/Platov.:rofl:
    Generally,I think that we have to see the programs to understand the season't dynamics...
  5. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

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    I don't think Kustarova is very powerful politically. Otherwise Bobrova and Soloviev would have gotten level 4's instead of level 2's. Anyway, Sinitsina and Zhiganshin moved as well if I remember correctly.
  6. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

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    I remember after worlds Capellini saying that she wanted to work with Zueva.
  7. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    pushkash / guerreiro?
  8. DORISPULASKI

    DORISPULASKI Watching submarine races

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    .Gilles.Poirier. Oh Canada.
  9. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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  10. love_skate2011

    love_skate2011 Well-Known Member

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    I agree R/T have the luckiest draw of all the Russian Ice Dancers
    If they do improve under Zueva with their levels. and taking 2 silver
    they might get their ticket to their first GPF
  11. Eislauffan

    Eislauffan Well-Known Member

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    They told me at World Team Trophy that they're going to Canton for summer training. But apparently it is not going to be a permanent move.
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  12. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    Every team except the top three have to face a top three couple, and it could have been worse: they could be competing against V/M instead of P/B. They might have fared better against C/L, who were almost ten points ahead of them at Nice, but that was Before Zhulin, but the only other option in 4-6 was I/K, and the Russian Fed clearly didn't want their top two teams at Rostelecom Cup when both have a shot at GPF.

    I'm not sure why: they could easily be in the middle of that field. They were going to have to compete against a Top 3 team, a 4-6 team, a 7-9 team, etc., no matter where they skate, and they get a home berth.

    Thank you so much for whole translations, sbanet. I thought she was coaching kids in Hungary, but obviously not.
  13. misskarne

    misskarne Spirit. Focus. Ability. Tenacity. Aussie Grit.

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    Is anyone else having a :mad: at the fact that they've thrown Artur in at the deep end by putting him up against Chan in BOTH his events? Coz I sure am.
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  14. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    He had to compete against either Chan, Takahashi, or Hanyu at each. I don't think he'd do better against Takahashi, and I'm not sure it's in his best interest being compared to Hanyu, especially early in the season.

    Rostelecom has the potentially deepest field, because in addition to a 1-3 skater, it's already got Brezina, Oda, Kozuka, Weir and Ten, and may have Plushenko by the Fall.
  15. love_skate2011

    love_skate2011 Well-Known Member

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    does it matter though ?
    its not like he would have podium anyway :lol:
    you're talking about a fluke world/european medalist here and never medaling at any other competitions even at his junior career !

    Plushy is still russian men's main hope. :shuffle:
  16. morqet

    morqet Active Member

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    He won bronze at Junior Worlds in 2010 and 4 JGP medals, actually. :p
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  17. AKISIN

    AKISIN New Member

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    Thank you for the articles and summaries!!!

    Having read this article (via Google translation), I thought they might come back to the competitions.
    but after that, the news that Nora & Maxim officially ended their partnerships had appeared. I did not know that:(

    I really loved this couple, so it is very sad. I hope Nora can find a good partner...
  18. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    I have a question about Plushenko. My understanding was that by having a top 3 (?) season's best score from Euros, he was guaranteed one GP. He didn't get any in the initial selection, so I assume that he did not submit his name for ISU consideration. Russia can still pick him as a host pick for their GP which is probably why they left in a TBA. So my question is, if Plushenko did not submit his name, is he eligible to be selected by other federations as an alternate once other skaters withdraw, or is that door closed now?

    I really wanted him to do GPF, lol.... :(
  19. misskarne

    misskarne Spirit. Focus. Ability. Tenacity. Aussie Grit.

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    The difference is Chanflation. When Takahashi and Hanyu fall their marks are affected appropriately. He may not "do better" against them, but things would be a lot more even than if he was up against Chan...

    ...although watching the politics with Chan at CoR is going to be funny.

    I am going to assume that Artur has rejected your romantic overtures at some point. It seems the only logical explanation for your completely irrational hatred of an 18-year-old, talented skater.

    Your hatred is so irrational that you can't even get the facts right.

    He in fact has 3 Junior Grand Prix medals, and a bronze at the Junior World Championships. He also won the Coupe de Nice that season.
  20. sbanet

    sbanet Well-Known Member

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    IMO that Hungarian "Sport Geza" article on Hoffmann+Zavozin is a bit weird and perhaps a little dodgy regarding the pair's quotes, so I wouldn't take everything from there as "100% official". (Thus my hesitation to directly translate it... ;) ) However, it does appear that if Nora is willing/able to compete again, it would be with a new partner. Hopefully it will work out for her.
  21. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

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    They can definitely beat Capellini and Lanotte if they don't **** up. They were doing it consistently until worlds where they fell, and that was with terrible programs and level 2's.
  22. kwanfan1818

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    The wording in the GP press release doesn't guarantee any spots except for 1-12 at prior Worlds and JGPF/JW medalists, so it is possible that Plushenko wasn't guaranteed one, and although his name was submitted, the Russian Fed made it clear that he was not to be selected by any other Fed.

    However, if it's typical lack of clarity by the ISU, and last year's rules apply, it's not clear. Samuelson/Gilles teamed up after the initial GP deadline last year, and they were given CoC off the alternates list, so they would have had to have been submitted past the initial GP selection deadline, and it's possible that entries can be fluid, although the initial selection criteria might applicable only to the initial selection, i.e., if Plushenko is allowed to be added, he'd still be under come-back skaters on the alternates list, but then be next in line for an alternates spot, not automatically at the top of the list. (There's a dearth of Russian Men at other events, as opposed to three Russian Ladies at RUS, FRA, NHK, and two at SA, so the only chance of Russian Men maxxing out is at RUS.)

    I don't see anywhere where it's published that there is a different rule for adding skaters to the alternates list, becoming a "come-back" skater after the initial selection, or host picks vs. skaters who qualified for a spot, but whose names weren't submitted.
  23. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    Although I'm sure the Russian Fed will be hedging its bets and politiking hard for both B/S and I/K leading to Sochi, I wouldn't be certain that B/S are a lock to beat C/L anymore. It took a while for Italy #1 bump to happen, but B/S were also behind I/K at Worlds and might be seen as Russia #2 going into this season, especially since Zhulin seems to have weaker politik than Morozov, or at least less of the Federation's confidence.

    C/L were on a roll last season, even if I find her skating over-rated, and feel that she is still significantly behind him, as I felt about Natalie Pechalat until the end of last season, and they are Italy #1. I think the next two SD's are much more up their alley than B/S, at least artistically. They had wonderfully appealing programs last year, and he is a :rockstar:. Sure B/S have a great upside, but I think C/L have the attention of the judges.
  24. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

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    I still think that Russian number 2 will have more power than Italian number 1. Between the two programs, Bobrova and Soloviev were less than .25 behind C/L in PCS. I think that Zhulin has more Politick power than Kustarova did, and IF he makes the changes that he promises that he will make, I think BS will come out on top.

    As for the two short dance themes, the fact that they aren't dances you'd think of BS as doing well in may be good as it will force them to stay away from the old fashioned style. That said, I don't think that either dance really suits CL either.
  25. luCN

    luCN New Member

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    Do you remember the show in Shenyang?

    the official site posted official video from the show(they use 3 camera to record it):
    Yagudin-Sway:http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNDAwNDEwODg4.html
    sneak piece:http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNDAxMDI5ODEy.html

    and here are some news video and fan videos:
    http://video.baidu.com/v?word=%B1%F9%C3%CE%C6%E6%D4%B5&ct=301989888&rn=20&pn=0&db=0&s=0&fbl=1024
    if not useable,put "冰梦奇缘" on the search block then search.

    according to the reports,Yagudin was very happy when he's in Shenyang.and in the evening they went to the sidewalk snack booth and have a good time.he even try to barbecue and clean the car LOL
    http://ww3.sinaimg.cn/large/8d21954fjw1dt0nfl2uacj.jpg
    Last edited: May 24, 2012
  26. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

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    Yags still has it. Love him!
  27. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

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  28. DaiKozOda

    DaiKozOda Active Member

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    Interesting that in the article it's said that Stolbova & Klimov will challenge Kavaguti & Smirnov, during the grand prix series, to surpass them in the rankings. Sorry but I don't see that coming soon.
  29. Eislauffan

    Eislauffan Well-Known Member

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    The program is named "Love Story", but it doesn't necessary mean that they use the music from the movie. Mishin says that the program is about a girl growing up and discovering love. That doesn't sound like they would use the music from "Love Story", but who knows.
  30. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    Stolbova-Klimov were lucky last season to get the Euro bronze, in K&S's absence. They are nowhere close to a healthy Kavaguti-Smirnov, or even Bazarova-Larianov, the current #3 Russian pair. Although I don't like S&K, they could challenge B&L for the #3 spot if S&K skate clean, and B&L make mistakes. The COP does not care for lines and posture, which will work well for S&K, but still not enough to challenge K&S.
  31. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't be so sure. As you said, at the moment they would be nowhere near to HEALTHY K&S. The thing is, K&S may not be healthy. They are getting older, she had the long term shoulder injury, he had the appendix done, it seems to me that they have been injured quite frequently in the last few years. And although appendix is just a one off (and not skating related), the high level of injuries /operations etc might be a sign that their body may not be willing to take it for much longer. If their bodies are not fully cooperating, Stolbova- Klimov would have a chance, if they land all their jumps.
  32. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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    Mind you, could they mean in ISU world ranking? If you think about it, Stolbova-Klimov have bronze from Europeans. Kavaguti& Smirnov have missed Europeans and have probably no points for Worlds because they placed quite low. So Stolbova-Klimov may have earned more point within the last season than Kavaguti& Smirnov.
  33. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    K/S were 5th in this season's ranking (1686), vs. S/K's 10th (1185). S/K got 42 more points from Euros (638) than S/K did at Euros (680), but K/S got significantly more points from GP. K/S have more points from two seasons ago than S/K, increasing the difference for cumulative WS at the beginning of this season (K/S-7th [2579] vs. S/K-11th [1904]).

    It would take a injury withdrawal from GP or a lot of points earned from two Senior B's for S/K to surpass K/S before Europeans, especially since they are direct competition for each other in two events (CHN, FRA) and neither has a weaker field than the other.
  34. misskarne

    misskarne Spirit. Focus. Ability. Tenacity. Aussie Grit.

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    It means that the theme of the program is Love Story, not that that is the music. Last year Artur's long program was called The Demon and that was Interview with a Vampire.

    I like the idea of the young girl growing up and discovering love. Liza is at just the right age for it and it will be wonderful to see how she plays it.
  35. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

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    No team is guaranteed to be healthy; even Stolbova and Klimov. Kavaguti and Smirnov did a great job in the GP series last year and the appendix was just a fluke that could happen to any athlete including Klimov. Kavaguti's surgery on her shoulder was two years ago after the Olympics. I doubt S/K could beat them even if K/S are injured. If S/H couldn't, S/K won't. K/S were a little over 7 points away from a medal at worlds even with the bad fall in the short and a missed lift in the free, that's saying something about the rest of their skating.

    K/S also lost a lot of points from 2010 and they didn’t compete as much in 2011. They only need 371 points to be in third place in the WR or 84 to be in 4th. If Moskvina sends them to one or two Senior B's (let's see if she is smart enough to do it) they will make up plenty of points even if they don't win first or second if they go.
  36. love_skate2011

    love_skate2011 Well-Known Member

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    I wanted Martiusheva/Rogonov to be Rus no.4 over Stolbova/Klimov
    but that's not happening anytime soon :(

    they didn't even get a GP assignment, so they'll keep getting B competitions to get more points, any chances for them getting a host pick entry ?
  37. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    It's too bad M&R didn't get a GP assignment. They really have to work on their consistency and prove to their fed that they can be relied upon. They had one good competition last year and that is just not enough. They are beautiful to watch, and hopefully by 2018 they could be contenders, but I am not sure they have the mental toughness for it.

    I am still heartbroken over my favorite pair I&M breaking up. My next favorite young pair is D&D but they are only going to compete in the juniors next season.
  38. love_skate2011

    love_skate2011 Well-Known Member

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    but what I don't get is how their Fed is hesitant with giving them
    another GP. sure they bombed at their GP in 2009 but how come
    the likes of G/E keep getting GP events over M/R ? :mad:

    this pair haven't done any better :blah:
  39. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    G&E have been disappointing. I think they are given more opportunities because of Moskvina's track record of success. However, she may not be able to make G&E one of the top pairs; they have already spent a couple years with her.
  40. Domshabfan

    Domshabfan Well-Known Member

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    Because G/E are ranked 15 in the world and have a SB unlike M/R, G/E got it on the basis of their ranking rather than Russian Fed giving them the GP. M/R is ranked 50 in the world, so M/R would not have GP events outside of host picks. As for M/R not getting opportunities, that is the best joke of the day. She has fallen so many time in the last 2 year on SBS jumps i felt sorry for him, and on top of that there were rumours of splitting at least 3 or 4 times. She herself has stated that Russian Fed believes in her (this was during a test skate earlier this year, where they got caught in the traffic and not surprisingly she bombed). I think M/R are Russian Fed's pet project. Russian nationals are the 1st competition in years where they have shown signs of their potential, which they showed us as a junior team. They will have to prove that they are competition ready before they will get the one TBA spot at Russian GP, otherwise that can go to G/E or even D/D if they want.

    I think Russian fed is being smart in not giving them the GP so early before seeing their programs.
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