From Russia With Love - 2012 Off Season

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Eislauffan, Apr 18, 2012.

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  1. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    With Sotnikova, Tuk, Leonova and the two Polinas age eligible for Euros and Worlds this season I will be very very very surprised to see Makarova make it to those comps. My bet is she wouldn't be given PCS in the same league at Nationals so as to ensure she doesn't "accidentally" make it (kind of like what happened to Flatt).

    With Lipnitskaya and Radionova joining the pack, I would already consider Makarova making top 6 at Nationals a major accomplishment.
     
  2. love_skate2011

    love_skate2011 Well-Known Member

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    Noooooooo......

    I hope she gets in good shape soon, reminds me of Yuko's :wuzrobbed
    I think they are feeling the pressure from their Feds with now being considered as Russia's No. 1 after Bobrova/Soloviev got dumped at Worlds. they will have stiff competition with Riazanova/Tkachenko and Sinitsina/Zhiiganshin.
    This 3 will be Russia's Top contenders.
     
  3. morqet

    morqet Well-Known Member

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    http://www.team-russia2014.ru/article/figur/4988.html

    And an interview with Morozov:

    - He wants I/K to make the GPF and to be fighting for first place at Europeans.
    - Feels they have a much more professional attitude to their training & have grown up a lot over the summer.
    - Takahashi has now joined the group in Novogorsk, Morozov says this is good for motivating the rest of the group.
    - Talks again about Miki, says he refused to take her on again because he didn't see what more he could do with her & didn't want to train someone who could be in direct competition with the Russian women. But he thinks Miki has enough knowlege of the sport now to do well whoever her coach is.
     
  4. DaiKozOda

    DaiKozOda Active Member

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    So Morozov said he doesn't want to work with Miki anymore cause she might be a direct competitor to the russian ladies but he picks Takahashi who can get in the way of Plushenko in Sochi. Interesting..
     
  5. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I <3 Kozuka

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    In a different interview, I think he was trying to say that if Plushenko is strong, things will take care of themselves, but if he's not, he won't be a contender anyway this time.
     
  6. rfisher

    rfisher Satisfied skating fan

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    Yes. He said Plushenko's only competition was himself. He'd either win or be in 7th-9th place based on how he skated. Although, there are unsaid issues regarding Miki, she would indeed be competition with the Russian ladies, especially one of his own skaters. That being said, I suspect the unsaid issues are the more important in this regard.
     
  7. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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    I know, but last year Makarova did not deserve to be 4th at the nationals and she was seriously gifted on PCS. She should have been about 6-7th. If she is gifted again, they can place her anywhere they want to (as long as she helps them at least a little bit). On the other hand, at least they don't have reason this year to give her a Christmas present because they have better choice of skaters who are age eligible.
     
  8. love_skate2011

    love_skate2011 Well-Known Member

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    she won't :shuffle:
    that's why she has to make the most out of her 2 GP assignments
    she will have stiffer competition at Nationals with Leonova, Tukt, Julia, Sotnikova, The Polinas, Radionova, Medvedeva and Sakhanovich
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2012
  9. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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    The results of Julia, Medvedeva and Sakhanovich won't matter at the nationals, because they can't be send to Europeans and Worlds. It is the results of Leonova, Sotnikova, Tuktamysheva and both Polinas that will matter for selecting who they will send.
     
  10. love_skate2011

    love_skate2011 Well-Known Member

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    *inserts Radionova

    what I mean is that, Makarova wont be gifted with PCS because even non eligible seniors like Radionova or Medvedeva can outscore her.
     
  11. Domshabfan

    Domshabfan Searching for Cizeron's Instagram

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    Even at the start of last year we talked about how Ksenia won't be factor because Polinas were age eligible etc, and Russia wont need her etc. However, at the end Russia had to use her, and also her score did count towards ensuring 3 spots for Russia for this year. Remember Polina Korbeynikova royally bombed the worlds :(... Polina Agafanova is shadow of what she was, Polina Shelepen has real problem with nerves. So Polinas may not be a factor at all.

    Liza, Adelina and Elena will be really strong and hard to beat, in my opinion. This is based only on what they did last season alone. I would like to see how Liza and Adelina perform this year before fully putting them as favorites since it feels like a long time since i have seen them skate (partly because they are going to skate as seniors in championships and need to position themselves well in the eyes of international judges). A decent skate from should be enough for them to make the team. However tehy can struggle. As for Ksenia, i am not a fan but she did help Russia many times to keep the 3 spots. She is a strong SP skater and scores well. So, going into FP she usually positions herself well. Her performances usually are bad in FP but her skate order along with few landed jumps ensures she gets a good PCS (ladies competition can be bit of a splashfest as we, so other too ensures her position). Hence she does not sink too far. Unlike thes likes of Polina K and Shelepen, who usually does a disastrous SP. Their scores are bad in SP and they usually get bad skate order. They then have a mountain to climb after that, partly because of their lack of reputation.

    If I was Russian Fed, I will not score Makarova too badly and wait and see how things plan out with the likes of Liza and Adelina. It won't be the first time that a very promising junior has failed to deliver. Saying all these i hope, I sincerely hope Ksenia Makarova will not make Russia team. hopefully this is because she lost to a group of ladies who delivered at the nationals.
     
  12. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    Liza, Adelina, will be on the GP just as Makarova will be and if Liza and Adelina still have their jumping ability and Liza wins a GP again or Adelina wins a GP and Ksenia performed in GPS like she did last season than the PCS at Russian nationals would reflect that. Russia has not been shy about giving wins and PCS to ineligible people for Euros and Worlds and even senior GP events.
     
  13. martyross

    martyross Active Member

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    why Makarova's always talked with such cynicism? she's being treated like the Cinderella of Russian team; regardless of the quality of her skating, in the past people discussed about her career as though it was merely functional to the benefit of Russia (i.e. she must/must not sent to Worlds to gain the 3 spots). can't people see her just as a competitor like all the others, yea just like all the "amazing super babies who has a shot to the Sochi podium"? Ksenia's skating is enjoyable and interesting for many, she's not a puppet that can be threw up or down basing on how the others do at Nationals and the needs of the Federation.
     
  14. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    ITA! I really enjoy her skating. She's more polished than some of the other Russian girls. If she could get her jumps back to where they were a couple of years ago plus the 3lutz, she would be right there in the league of Leonova/Suzuki/Wagner.
     
  15. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    That is a huge IF. After the Olympic season she really lost her jumps - both consistency and quality / rotation. She hasn't had one solid competition in 2 full seasons. I don't believe there is one easily fixable solution to her jumping problems which should be both physical and mental at this point.

    And even IF she got her jumps back, she wouldn't be right there with the others you mentioned. Maybe Leonova, skating wise. But then she is now a world medalist and has more political clout than ever. Same for Wagner and Suzuki, but these two can actually skate and deserve higher PCS. Let's face it - Makarova isn't that good a skater to begin with (and neither is Leonova). ANd she hasn't accumulated much reputational points in a while.

    She almost lost the 3rd spot for the Russian ladies (if not for those ridiculous PCS she and Leonova received, she would have). I don't believe the Russian Fed has that much political power to cover anyone beyond Sotnikova, Tuk, Lipnitskaya and Leonova. I wanna bet the Polinas are ahead of her too.

    Remember when Leonova and Makarova were labeled the bridge between Slutskaya and the wonder babies and would be thrown into the dust once the wonder babies become age eligible? Well, Leonova has proven why she can still be kept in the field. Not Makarova.
     
  16. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    No one would care how inconsistent she is if she skates for Georgia. Too bad she skates for Russia and the field in Russia is too deep for a spot at Worlds or Olympics to be wasted on her. At the free at Worlds 2012, she landed 2 clean triples only.
     
  17. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    ...which is why I said if.

    Disagree, and it's not like I said she'd be as good as Kostner or Kim. The ones I mentioned are pretty average in my opinion.

    Yes, it's a shame Makarova got sent to Worlds and almost lost the third spot, when they could've relied on the excellent performance of Korebynikova to keep it. I'm sure Shelepen would've easily placed top 11 as well to keep the three spots.


    Anyway, that's all beside the point, which was that *gasp* some people actually enjoy Makarova's skating and follow her results in and of themselves and not just for how they factor into Russian ladies skating and how many spots they'll get. But apparently this is impossible because we are all just supposed to admit that she sucks and any result she does get is only because she's overscored, because she's not elegant or interesting at all and there's no way she could ever get PCS above a 3. I seriously don't know what a skater who seems like a nice girl and has never even won an ISU championship medal did to get so much hate... it's not like she robbed any special snowflakes of a title.

    eta:
    I agree, Makarova has not done as well as Leonova, and Leonova has proven she can be a podium contender which is likely to keep her on the team this year. Why can't some of us root for Makarova to get there too? Why does everyone have to be so gleeful about her finally getting kicked off the team?
     
  18. feraina

    feraina Well-Known Member

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    Actually, personally I think Makarova's skating has the most maturity/elegance of all the Russian ladies skaters; her SP last season was delightful, it definitely deserved its high PCS. It is Leonova's PCS that is outrageously high!

    Makarova clearly improved over the course of last season, there was a huge difference between Skate America and Worlds. She just looked like she needed a couple more months to reach her full potential for last season. Puberty certainly proved disastrous for her jumps, but so far she's shown herself to be willing to claw back her technical ability. The youngsters still have puberty to face. The timing of Sochi may be such that Makarova will finally adjust to her adult body while the youngsters will be sunk with their body changes. Not saying that will definitely happen, but it's definitely too early to write anyone off right now.
     
  19. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    I didn't disagree. I said it's not just if, it's IF.

    I guess we have different views on how Makarova and Suzuki can each meet the GOE and PCS criteria. I see Makarova averaging a 6.5 per PCS at her best and Suzuki an 8.5.

    I have rooted for her since 2009 because she looked like she was a great talent waiting for refinement on jumping technique and choreography but she hasn't really improved since the Olympics and that is disappointing. She was such a breath of fresh air when she came onto the scene because there had been no elegance or maturity in Russian ladies skating since Butyrskaya retired. And she easily had the best layback of all the Russian ladies. But to see her compete and falter at each competition these couple of seasons is :scream: I am glad you still enjoy seeing that.

    I would love to see her do a Zhang turn-around but I don't see that as likely.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2012
  20. love_skate2011

    love_skate2011 Well-Known Member

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    because of the lack of good results, just look at Leonova, she isn't much like here and still isn't but I did notice forumers here have taken the name Leonova more seriously not just another non factor, something Ksenia
    doesnt have
     
  21. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    Leonova's PCS were criminally high! Makarova's were 'only' about 1 point too high per PCS and IMO deserved to be higher than Leonova no matter how each of them skate.

    Really? Skate America had a tough caller and she was dinged hard on the jumps but she did stand up on 4 triples and fell only once. At Worlds she fell twice (and both horribly) and popped open on 2 jumps. Weird false ending aside, I don;t really hate the Monroe program and thought she had decent flow and charisma.

    I totally agree. But out of the 3 wonder babies, the 2 Polinas and the 2 veterans, she has by far the easiest content so she will already be starting at an disadvantage. And I would hate to see 4 girls hit by the puberty monster.
     
  22. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    Even if there were some UR and flaws Makarova's jump peak had to be 2010 Skate Canada.

    I don't believe all the girls will be damaged so bad by puberty. Liza, Adelina, Julia - all of them? It is not just being young and their body type that allows for triple lutz and flips and some triple triples- tremendous skill is involved and just like so many talented people have marched right through puberty with just minimal problems maybe they can be like Mao, or Yuna or Kristy or Irina or Michelle etc etc!
     
  23. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    I don't enjoy seeing her compete and falter but again, that's the different perspectives we have. I don't see Makarova as just some skater who only underrotates her jumps and falls all over the ice. Admittedly, she does those things. But I like her because of the beautiful SPs she had the past two seasons with many good/clean performances, and the entertainment value of her LPs and how well she performs the character in spite of her mistakes. I see plenty of good things about her still. :)
     
  24. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't mind watching her if there was unlimited spaces each country can send. By watching Makarova messing up when I know I would enjoy to watch someone else from that country, who in my opinion would do better is a bit annoying.
     
  25. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    So far she has earned her spots to Europeans and Worlds and provided value by placing in the top 10 each time. I don't think any other age-eligible Russian woman (Biryukova or Shelepen) necessarily would've skated better at Worlds. She's also earned her GP slots this year by being 9th at Worlds. I don't see anyone suggesting that she can, will, or should make the team if others are better. I am sure if Leonova, Sotnikova, and Tuktamaysheva do well this season, the spots are theirs. I would love to see Makarova get her jumps back and be in the mix if any of them struggle, though.
     
  26. rfisher

    rfisher Satisfied skating fan

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    Fans can like Makarova as much as they want and maybe she'll get sufficient shows so they can watch her skate, but the fact of the matter is she and Leonova have been outscored at Russian nationals the previous two years. They were fortunate enough that they met the age requirements and those who scored higher did not, ergo they got to go to Europeans and Worlds. This season is a different story. They will have to skate their way to both comps as well as the Olympic berths because there will be plenty of other skaters who are now ISU age eligible. If they skate lights out at Russian nationals, they'll go to Europeans/Worlds. If not, they won't. They no longer will be sent based on the fact they were the highest scoring skaters old enough to go. As has been said so often the depth of the Russian ladies is just unbelievable. Sadly, skaters who would be national champions in many, many other countries, will never skate at Europeans or Worlds much less the Olympics.
     
  27. babayaga

    babayaga Active Member

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    Just wanted to point out that in last two years Leonova would have made the World/European team regardless of who was age eligible and who wasn't. She finished second two years ago and third last year at Russian nationals. In fact, it would have been Tuktamysheva who would stayed home both years. I have nothing against Lisa, just wanted to get the facts straight.
     
  28. rfisher

    rfisher Satisfied skating fan

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    Tuk didn't go. Polina K did. And as much as I love Olyessa II, if she doesn't get her nerves under control in the SP, she may not make a 2nd trip. :( I'm hoping since her coach has had her baby, maybe they've worked on that issue. I don't think any particular skater is assured of a spot on the Russian ladies team. There are simply too many good skaters to predict who will skate their best at a comp. They all have a shot, including Makarova. They just have to want it bad enough. I love Adelina, but fear she'll let her nerves get in her way. Frankly, my money is on Tuk simply because Mishin has a way of motivating his skaters to want to win. If she can tap into that mind set, she has the best chance of an Olympic medal. But, in any event Russian ladies are going to be awesome to watch in every event the next two seasons. Let the best lady win.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2012
  29. love_skate2011

    love_skate2011 Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Sep 8, 2012
  30. babayaga

    babayaga Active Member

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    I know, that's not what I meant. I wanted to say that IF everyone was age eligible, Leonova would have made the team both times and Lisa wouldn't. Leonova wasn't lucky to be on the team because everyone else was young, she actually beat most of the young skaters at Russian nationals. Sorry if I wasn't clear.
     
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