From Russia With Love - 2012 Off Season

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Eislauffan, Apr 18, 2012.

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  1. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't be so sure. As you said, at the moment they would be nowhere near to HEALTHY K&S. The thing is, K&S may not be healthy. They are getting older, she had the long term shoulder injury, he had the appendix done, it seems to me that they have been injured quite frequently in the last few years. And although appendix is just a one off (and not skating related), the high level of injuries /operations etc might be a sign that their body may not be willing to take it for much longer. If their bodies are not fully cooperating, Stolbova- Klimov would have a chance, if they land all their jumps.
     
  2. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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    Mind you, could they mean in ISU world ranking? If you think about it, Stolbova-Klimov have bronze from Europeans. Kavaguti& Smirnov have missed Europeans and have probably no points for Worlds because they placed quite low. So Stolbova-Klimov may have earned more point within the last season than Kavaguti& Smirnov.
     
  3. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    K/S were 5th in this season's ranking (1686), vs. S/K's 10th (1185). S/K got 42 more points from Euros (638) than S/K did at Euros (680), but K/S got significantly more points from GP. K/S have more points from two seasons ago than S/K, increasing the difference for cumulative WS at the beginning of this season (K/S-7th [2579] vs. S/K-11th [1904]).

    It would take a injury withdrawal from GP or a lot of points earned from two Senior B's for S/K to surpass K/S before Europeans, especially since they are direct competition for each other in two events (CHN, FRA) and neither has a weaker field than the other.
     
  4. misskarne

    misskarne #ForzaJules #KeepFightingMichael

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    It means that the theme of the program is Love Story, not that that is the music. Last year Artur's long program was called The Demon and that was Interview with a Vampire.

    I like the idea of the young girl growing up and discovering love. Liza is at just the right age for it and it will be wonderful to see how she plays it.
     
  5. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

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    No team is guaranteed to be healthy; even Stolbova and Klimov. Kavaguti and Smirnov did a great job in the GP series last year and the appendix was just a fluke that could happen to any athlete including Klimov. Kavaguti's surgery on her shoulder was two years ago after the Olympics. I doubt S/K could beat them even if K/S are injured. If S/H couldn't, S/K won't. K/S were a little over 7 points away from a medal at worlds even with the bad fall in the short and a missed lift in the free, that's saying something about the rest of their skating.

    K/S also lost a lot of points from 2010 and they didn’t compete as much in 2011. They only need 371 points to be in third place in the WR or 84 to be in 4th. If Moskvina sends them to one or two Senior B's (let's see if she is smart enough to do it) they will make up plenty of points even if they don't win first or second if they go.
     
  6. love_skate2011

    love_skate2011 Well-Known Member

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    I wanted Martiusheva/Rogonov to be Rus no.4 over Stolbova/Klimov
    but that's not happening anytime soon :(

    they didn't even get a GP assignment, so they'll keep getting B competitions to get more points, any chances for them getting a host pick entry ?
     
  7. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Sasha

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    It's too bad M&R didn't get a GP assignment. They really have to work on their consistency and prove to their fed that they can be relied upon. They had one good competition last year and that is just not enough. They are beautiful to watch, and hopefully by 2018 they could be contenders, but I am not sure they have the mental toughness for it.

    I am still heartbroken over my favorite pair I&M breaking up. My next favorite young pair is D&D but they are only going to compete in the juniors next season.
     
  8. love_skate2011

    love_skate2011 Well-Known Member

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    but what I don't get is how their Fed is hesitant with giving them
    another GP. sure they bombed at their GP in 2009 but how come
    the likes of G/E keep getting GP events over M/R ? :mad:

    this pair haven't done any better :blah:
     
  9. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Sasha

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    G&E have been disappointing. I think they are given more opportunities because of Moskvina's track record of success. However, she may not be able to make G&E one of the top pairs; they have already spent a couple years with her.
     
  10. Domshabfan

    Domshabfan Well-Known Member

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    Because G/E are ranked 15 in the world and have a SB unlike M/R, G/E got it on the basis of their ranking rather than Russian Fed giving them the GP. M/R is ranked 50 in the world, so M/R would not have GP events outside of host picks. As for M/R not getting opportunities, that is the best joke of the day. She has fallen so many time in the last 2 year on SBS jumps i felt sorry for him, and on top of that there were rumours of splitting at least 3 or 4 times. She herself has stated that Russian Fed believes in her (this was during a test skate earlier this year, where they got caught in the traffic and not surprisingly she bombed). I think M/R are Russian Fed's pet project. Russian nationals are the 1st competition in years where they have shown signs of their potential, which they showed us as a junior team. They will have to prove that they are competition ready before they will get the one TBA spot at Russian GP, otherwise that can go to G/E or even D/D if they want.

    I think Russian fed is being smart in not giving them the GP so early before seeing their programs.
     
  11. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

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    G/E haven't been as disappointing as some have made them out to be.

    European Championships:2011-4th
    Russian Championships:2011-4th, 2012-4th
    Cup of Russia: 2010-4th, 2011-5th
    Bavarian Open: 2011-2nd
    Coupe de Nice: 2010-1st, 2011-2nd

    M/R have been together 3 years longer, not to mention Gerboldt has only been skating pairs with him for two seasons. I don't know what Artur Dmitriev was like as a coach and now Moskvina and now Kazakova but they seem to be pretty consistent and hopefully with a new choreographer they will get better, they had terrible choreography last year.
     
  12. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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    Yes, they were 4th at Russian championships 2012, but in the absence of the two strongest teams, so the result is like if they were sixth! Which is disappointing!
     
  13. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    I wonder why the difference between her and Lubov...

    Regarding Stolbova & Klimov, I don't expect to see them beating K&S yet, but it's awesome that it's their goal. They seem like fighters and are consistent on their jumps. It's good to see that fire. Frankly I think Bazarova & Larionov need more of that attitude, because they have made comments about being happy to be the third team, not in the spotlight yet, etc, and this is after having competed at an Olympics and several senior Worlds. I'd like to see S&K knock them off the podium for a world team of V&T, K&S, S&K.
     
  14. love_skate2011

    love_skate2011 Well-Known Member

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    4th at Cup of Russia minus V/T and K/S
    Bavarian Open is a B competition and if you compare
    M/R's B assignments they have won almost all of them in the past 2 seasons
    :shuffle:
     
  15. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    The thing is that G&E got lucky getting that CoR host pick in 2010-11, but they skated well with good scores, and then they got Euros and did well again. 2011-12 was a rough season for them because they didn't get to complete much, but based on those results from the season before, they again got a GP and did alright (5th). And because of their result there, they earned another one this year, etc. It's cyclical.

    Unfortunately M&R bombed their senior GP debut season and haven't gotten another spot since. Even though they are better than G&E now nationally, they don't have much of an international resume. All they really need is a chance to skate at a big event or two (GP or higher) and post some solid scores, and they will be back in the mix for international assignments.

    Hopefully they can medal at one of the more prestigious Bs (like Nebelhorn) and get the CoR host pick, place in the top 5 there and got an SB that will guarantee them a spot next season.... and put themselves in a good position for post-Sochi.
     
  16. love_skate2011

    love_skate2011 Well-Known Member

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    ^

    sorry, I meant 4th at NATIONALS minus V/T an K/S
     
  17. Fashionista

    Fashionista New Member

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    ^
    yes, such a huge difference with M/R who with V/T and K/S competing would have been 5th.
     
  18. Domshabfan

    Domshabfan Well-Known Member

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    the answer to that i think is there is no difference. All of the mentioned girls have encountered jumping problems, Russian Fed has sent each of them to a jumping specialist to improve their jumps, remember she regained the SBS jumps and looked like they will push B/L out of the 3rd spot, but then she had a disaster at the nationals . Now she is accusing Pavlova of a lot of things, but a year plus ago there was mention of Nodari and Lubov moving to Oleg Vasiliev. Then it was her who was mentioned not wanting to work with him and wanting to work with Pavlova. So they were given options, but i don't think she took the correct decision back then.
     
  19. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Sasha

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    Are you talking of Lubov or Stolbova?
     
  20. Domshabfan

    Domshabfan Well-Known Member

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    Lubov
     
  21. hanca

    hanca Well-Known Member

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    Hung on, read your post carefully. You are saying "It was mentioned..." so how can you know for sure that a) they had the option to go to Vasiliev and b) it was Lubov who wanted to stay with Pavlova? All you wrote was that "it was mentioned..." and "she took the right decision back then". There is always a lot of speculations about any skater, but are you certain that they really thought about going to Vasiliev and that she did not want to go? You are using it in this argument as if it was some fact, but as far as I know, all this is is a rumour! Someone speculated, another added a bit more, and then it was all over the forum. All it needs is to write "imagine how well I+M would do with Vasiliev", another one adds a bit more and you have the rumour.
     
  22. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    As Cherub721 described, once a skater/team is given a spot, that skater/team can earn enough points to be guaranteed a spot the next year and earn a score that guarantees them a spot in the future: as long as the Federation submits the name into the GP selection pool, it doesn't matter how high the team is ranked nationally. It's a bit like how it's harder to earn two spots to Worlds, but not that easy to lose the second with several decent skaters/teams.

    For the skaters/teams that aren't guaranteed at least one, the host can 1. give them an initial host pick 2. replace them with a TBD 3. Lobby to have them chosen for another country's spot if they have a Top 75 SB; M/R don't qualify for the last. Under last year's rules, if they don't do an early senior B and earn a GP minimum, they can't get an initial host pick. There's still a TBD. All of the :wuzrobbed should be to the Russian Federation, which may be premature, since they may not want to send M/R to an early Senior B to earn the minimum and may be looking at M/R for the TBD (no minimum needed), and it has nothing to do with G/E's guaranteed spot.

    The ways that M/R can get a Top 75 SB this season are by being assigned to Rostelecom TBD and/or by placing high enough at Russian Nationals to earn a spot at Euros and/or Worlds. Their only WS points are from their best Senior B result of each of the last two seasons, and even if they win another this year, the increase in points will be marginal (250 minus the 175 that will drop off before next season's GP).

    If none of this happens this season, they could get a host pick and/or the assignment to next season's Olympic Qualifier, which, in the past, has counted for the SB list, to set them up post-Sochi.

    G/E still have over 400 points from 2011 Euros counting towards their WS, which at 15 earned them a GP spot this year. (They were 27 on the SB list, just 3 points under the Top 24 cut-off; with a stronger performance at this year's GP, they can afford to lose the WS points for GP selection purposes.)
     
  23. lily

    lily Active Member

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  24. Jeschke

    Jeschke Well-Known Member

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    with sergej slavnov there too, 2 lost talents...

    pair up and make some miracle. i want so badly seeing her again. there is need for more :drama: on ice.
     
  25. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Sasha

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    What is Obertas doing these days?
     
  26. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    Three: they've also got Valeria Vorobyeva, who tried to team up with Jerome Blanchard, but the French Fed refused his release.
     
  27. servin

    servin New Member

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    She is a coach in Stockholms KK, Sweden.
     
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  28. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

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    In the absence of the two strongest teams, M/R would have only been 5th; that was probably equally disappointing yet people were enamored by how well they did. S/K would have been 4th (and no medalists) and B/L would not have been able to call themselves Russian National Champions.

    But that's not how the record book works; there isn't an asterisk by skater’s names that say...

    1. Bazarova and Larionov (but V/T and K/S weren't there so really they would have been 3rd)
    2. Stolbova and Klimov (but V/T and K/S weren't there so really they wouldn't have even been on the podium at all)

    There just aren't caveats when the top skaters are absent, the place they got is the place they got.

    Gerboldt and Enbert's 4th place at nationals is the same thing.
     
  29. IneZR

    IneZR New Member

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    Yeah, I miss Maria as well. She was a lovely skater to watch :( Well, at least she can make some money while she is skating in this show. Maybe she could turn to coaching later? I'd love to see her waving to the fans in the kiss-and-cry someday! :p
     
  30. Moka-Ananas

    Moka-Ananas Man's Ruin

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    Four: Maria Sergejeva is also there.
     
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