Frank Carroll: The Skate Whisperer

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Yazmeen, Feb 23, 2014.

  1. Frau Muller

    Frau Muller President of Dick Button Appreciation Club

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    The title 'Skate Whisperer' cracks me up. Of course, Frank is not alone in meriting that title. The most famour whisperer-magician comes to mind: Tamara Moskvina.
     
  2. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    I don't think this is the case. Carroll has said that he won't put elements into a program unless the skater can complete them successfully 70% of the times they try them. With that sort of confidence a skater has more of a comfort zone, for lack of a better word, to be an exciting performer. While Bowman was at times a little too spontaneous for Carroll's liking, he was one of the more exciting skaters to watch because of his energy and enthusiasm. Carroll's more cautious skaters, like Goebel, were like that with every coach they worked with.
     
  3. marialynn

    marialynn New Member

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    bronze and gracie's 4th place is not a gold medal- never will be
     
  4. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    If we work really hard to get all the results above them nullified, it could be! Don't lose hope!!
     
  5. NadineWhite

    NadineWhite Well-Known Member

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    Jammers (sorry still unable to use the quote function after 3 mos.), there's nothing wrong with "trying", after all that's how something eventually becomes a reality. Without risk takers the world would be a sorry place indeed. Risk takers such as Sarah Hughes would have never realized her dream of becoming Olympic Champion if she had not put in the second 3/3 combo. she had only landed once in competition previously. And there are plenty of other examples in figure skating. Midor Ito even broke her leg practicing the 3axel, but thank goodness she didn't let that prevent her from eventually putting it into competition and mastering it. :cool: That's my point when it comes to not only GG, but others as well. Oops, not to forget Mao Asada. I beg to differ when it comes to your analysis of her, Jammers. No, she is able to do all the triples, all 6 of them in fact (i.e. 3T, 3S, 3R, 3F, 3Z, 3A), as well as 3/3 combos. :smokin:

    Risk takers are to be applauded, not derided, because without them dreams would never become reality. jmho.

    *note: even Michelle Kwan was a risk taker at heart. I recall her taking her sr. figure skating tests against the advice of her coach Frank Carroll. And guess what she passed with flying colors and she came second to Tonya Harding the next year at Nationals. :cool*
     
  6. marialynn

    marialynn New Member

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    who's losing hope? i don't expect anything more from the u.s then what they usually do- bronze and silver are nice but still not gold-progressive is just not a word the u.s fed understands imo
     
  7. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    I was being facetious. I didn't think anyone was actually hoping the results would be nullified resulting in those positions equaling 1st place.
     
  8. Jammers

    Jammers Well-Known Member

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    The US dominated Ladies for over 50 years from the early 50's to about 2006. It couldn't last forever. Japan without Mao,Ando,Suzuki is going to be hurting for the next few years and it was a powerhouse for only about a decade.
     
  9. overedge

    overedge Well-Known Member

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    Well, duh.

    So a gold medal is the only reason for a skater to enter a competition, and if they don't get one, then clearly they are horrible skaters who never should have participated at all :rolleyes:
     
  10. MrLucky

    MrLucky New Member

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    I think we have only seen the beginning of the Russian wonder babies. After Adelina's win, the Team win, the Pairs win, the rise of I/K, Russian skating will probably boom for the next decade.

    Besides Lip and Rad they have more young girls getting ready to enter the senior ranks. They are already dominating juniors and could get even stronger in the coming years.
     
  11. demetriosj

    demetriosj Well-Known Member

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    Slick? He tries to come off as so classy, fair, impartial, and so above it all, but that is just plain rude/bitchy blaming Danny all these years later...........
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2014
  12. NadineWhite

    NadineWhite Well-Known Member

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  13. Jammers

    Jammers Well-Known Member

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    Most of those girls will there jumps.
     
  14. skatesindreams

    skatesindreams Well-Known Member

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    You are so encouraging. (not!)
    Her time at the top level of competition has only begun.
     
  15. bardtoob

    bardtoob Well-Known Member

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    Frank sounds like a coach that encourages sturdy character, which is admirable in any sports coach.
     
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  16. demetriosj

    demetriosj Well-Known Member

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    I assume you mean they will lose their jumps. You hope.......
     
  17. OliviaPug

    OliviaPug Well-Known Member

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    Don't sweat it, overedge. With her posts, marialynn is only looking for a tiny bit of the huge amount of attention GG is getting with her 4th place finish ... I see marialynn joined FSU just in time for the Games! Kind of reminds me of Tonya Harding's antics on the eve U.S. Nationals, Worlds or the Olympics.

    O-
     
  18. jiejie

    jiejie Active Member

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    Sing along with me. Tune: West Side Story--Maria
    (with due respect to Stephen Sondheim...)

    Maria!
    We just met a troll named Maria.
    Whose purpose to proclaim
    "America is Lame"
    To us.....
    Maria!
    We spotted a troll named Maria.
    Her attitude is sore
    Your buttons, press "ignore"
    Is best.....
     
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  19. canbelto

    canbelto Well-Known Member

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    The Carroll interview is interesting in that of all the skaters, he seems the most genuine when talking about his one major huge headcase, Christopher Bowman. Despite acknowledging all his frustrations he talks about Bowman with a warmth that sounds completely sincere and not at all passive aggressive. He doesn't emphasize the negative, but speaks about all of Bowman's positive qualities.

    With regards to Michelle Kwan he praises her effusively but is kind of passive aggressive. He throws shade on her Torino comeback, and suggests that she wasn't sincere about trying to skate there. And I find all of this odd because I saw an interview the two of them did together during Sochi where she was more than respectful of him -- she still seemed totally awed by him. He's strangely impersonal about Evan Lysacek too.

    So it's weird that he emphasizes how he's all business, and he's not there to baby the skaters or fix their personal problems, but at the same time he's the most warm about the one skater with insurmountable personal problems.
     
  20. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    …when she posts loud
    that means Americans are skating
    when she posts soft
    then there are quads and triple axels displaying…
    Maria…
    we just met a troll named Maria.
    The most repetitive troll we've ever met…
    Maria...
     
  21. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    I think it was Bowman where Carroll put his foot down on no longer being personal and trying to be a surrogate father or psychologist/life coach to a skater. I think he learned to be hardened from that experience and Kwan was the first big skater he had post-Bowman. Luckily for Kwan, she had a stable family she could count on (and an older sister to help her through the process and share the experience with). I think Carroll's relationship with Kwan is much more of an old professor to a star pupil than it is one of a family member. That would probably explain why Kwan still is in awe of him while he may hold her in his heart, it's still at arms-length.
     
  22. iarispiralllyof

    iarispiralllyof Active Member

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    Err....Christopher Bowman is dead, so that would color the way Frank decides to speak about him. It's tacky to speak ill of the dead, even if you're describing something objectively.
     
  23. skatfan

    skatfan Well-Known Member

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    But he was talking about how Frank referred to Christopher, and canbelto didn't say anything untoward imo.
    I think Frank did change his strategy after Christopher, it was probably heartbreaking, since Frank didn't have children himself.
     
  24. canbelto

    canbelto Well-Known Member

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    There's a difference between a generalized politeness when "not speaking ill of the dead," and how Frank speaks of Christopher Bowman. He says that Christopher was difficult, but then follows up with very genuine, warm reflections about how Christopher was also funny, charming, talented, basically wonderful.

    I just wonder if other skaters perhaps needed more of the warm, empathetic approach Carroll took towards Christopher, and whether Carroll after the Bowman saga swung too far in the other direction towards a strict, detached approach to skaters.
     
  25. bek

    bek Guest

    I think every skater needs something different. However, maybe Frank feels the warm empathetic approach, actually harmed Christopher? That maybe if he had fired Christopher a long time earlier it would have been a wake up call early enough in Christopher's issues to make a difference. Of course nobody's to blame in the sense that Christopher made Christopher's choices.

    No coaching approach work for everyone. It doesn't seem Frank worked particularly well for Kostner.

    However, I see the benefits of the Frank's approach far out weighing the negatives. I.e I think emotional distance helps the students as much as the coach. I.e your not letting down a surrogate parent! (eek) Letting the parents be the parents, and the coach be the coach.

    I know Nina Mozer talked about the coach not being entitled to emotions, and it seems from the interview she tried to just stay out of the whole Stas/Tatiana/Maxim mess.

    I thought that Michelle and Frank seemed to get along super well and seemed to have pretty warm feelings for each other....I think the fact that this was not surrogate parent probably helped.

    In terms of Frank putting in the three flip zinger. I think well in Frank's mind, Michelle should have known better than to go coachless in the Olympics. I remember reading an article where he mentioned that he wished Michelle would choose a coach, rather than going at the Olympics alone.
     
  26. berthesghost

    berthesghost Well-Known Member

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    that doesn't seem to be exactly right. Frank wanted her to win 93 jr nats so she could show up in 94 to vie for an oly spot as a national champion, not the little kid who placed somewhere in the sr. crowd and might not be remembered. It all worked out in the end so he doesn't seem too bothered, but I'm not aware of many coaches who would welcome such blatant disregard for instruction.

    The tai b interview was interesting. She said she doesn't know Sasha, but she's always shocked by the stories because she always knew nicks as a strict disciplinarian who never tolerated pupils challenging his directives, yet the papers were full of pr fluff of Sasha calling all the shots, doing as she pleased, etc...

    I know the pr friendly story of michelle taking the test all on her own makes her seem like the plucky little risk taker, but he at least offers the option that she was just a kid pushed into it by her stagemom dad.
     
  27. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    I don't remember hearing that it was Danny's idea for Kwan to take the senior test. Anyway, as much flack as Danny Kwan gets, Frank Carroll says that Danny Kwan made choices that reasonable parents would make. Not that they always worked out, but Frank said that he has no doubt that Danny had Michelle's best interest at heart and thought he was making the choices that were best for her at the time.

    If Danny was a true stage parent, I don't think Michele would have had the career she had, the genuine love of skating, nor the fond memories and ability to lead a life past skating into something that is pretty successful. I know there are degrees of stage parenting, and I think parents have to be the ones to put their foot down and make their children be more disciplined in order to succeed (even if it means forcing the skaters to train on days they are tired and don't want to), but to me there's a difference between being a disciplined parent and being a stage parent. The latter, to me, is living vicariously through your child or forcing your child to do something that is ultimately detrimental for their emotional or psychological (maybe at times physical) well-being in the long-term for your own gain without much regard for the child's wishes. I don't think there's a doubt at all that Michelle Kwan wanted to skate and compete at the highest level she could achieve. This isn't a AP McDonough situation (where she clearly looked miserable) and this wasn't an Andre Agassi situation either (where he had success but seriously hated tennis at a point in time that wasn't clear to outsiders).

    Anyway, by the time Michelle Kwan left Frank, she was a 21 year-old woman with some college education and experience living independently not to mention a great chunk of money to be set for life. I know Asian families have strong ties (I know from first-hand experience), but I really doubt Michelle would have done anything she didn't believe to be the right decision for herself at that point in her life.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2014
  28. canbelto

    canbelto Well-Known Member

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  29. berthesghost

    berthesghost Well-Known Member

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    it was the very first Kwan question jenny asks him and he says he was told it was her idea, but he suspects it was Danny's. It wasn't said in a mean or cutting way. In fact I think he chuckled.

    This was my whole point about the whole thing. 97 is the best example. Most of the press spun it as nerves after being the champ for the first time. But internet gossip kept blaming it on the boot deal, but said in a more accusatory way, making Danny seem more greedy than wise. I was surprised to hear frank confirm it was all because of the boot deal, even if he did, as you say, explain it in a way that made Danny seem well intensioned and having Michelle's best interest in mind. He further explains that he wants to adjust one blade right before nats, but Danny says no because he thinks change will rattle michelle. Again, it's told in a soft, parent looking out for their kid way, but really, what's the point of even telling it other than to come up with one more example of how frank knew best and Danny wouldn't listen. I agree with whomever called the interview "passive aggressive".
     
  30. bek

    bek Guest

    I hate to say it, but I think in terms of equipment, training etc, coach does KNOW best. Frank has years of experience after all and isn't that what he's paid with. if the coach thinks the blade needs to be adjusted, it should be adjusted.

    Look, I'm not saying at all that parents shouldn't be aware of what's going on. But the parent isn't a skating expert. I'm reminded of Tarasova saying Sasha should drop out of the cheesefest and focus on the GPF.

    I don't blame Tarasova for having enough.