Frank Carroll: The Skate Whisperer

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Yazmeen, Feb 23, 2014.

  1. Yazmeen

    Yazmeen Well-Known Member

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    Doggygirl and (deleted member) like this.
  2. berthesghost

    berthesghost Well-Known Member

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    I wish someone would do a more extensive article on frank. Reading this I wanted more info on Jenny, Carolina, surya, d10, etc...

    I was a little surprised by Jenny's interview with manleywoman. Here is someone struggling with personal problems, yet iirc she only had nice things to say about the "I'm not your father!" Frank and "I'm a hockey coach bully" Evy, but totally threw "I'll manage every aspect of your life" Callaghan under the bus as a sham.
     
  3. my little pony

    my little pony snarking for AZE

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    i'd like to hear more about that colonel tom parker deal he had with tim goebel and other skaters that tim mentioned on TSL. frank will get up in your life when it is time to get paid.
     
  4. skatesindreams

    skatesindreams Well-Known Member

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    I think that his explanation of the difference between a "teacher" and a "coach" is important; and telling.

    FC expects those he coaches to be responsible for their own actions and behavior,
    It's refreshing,
     
  5. Sparks

    Sparks Well-Known Member

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    While that was interesting, yet not surprising, I think Tim was being less than honest in that interview about why Frank fired him.
    Not that he had to reveal anything, mind you.
    There must be something about special about Frank if Kwan, Kirk, and others still have so much respect for him.
     
  6. canbelto

    canbelto Well-Known Member

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    Seems Frank's technique is great when you have skaters who are naturally driven and hard-working. But I do think the mark of a successful coach is being able to work with different, even difficult personalities and also get them to where they need to be.
     
  7. Wyliefan

    Wyliefan Well-Known Member

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    Good interview!
     
  8. alilou

    alilou Crazy Stalker Lady

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    Very good interview. I wish Patrick had gone to Frank. With the right mindset he would probably be OGM by now. Chan had too many people messing with his head, plus he wanted it too much. I think Frank would have set him straight - no time for all that nonsense. Just train and do your job.
     
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  9. Kabooke

    Kabooke Active Member

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    I disagree. These coaches are no different than everyday people. Certain types gravitate toward and work best with certain types of personalities. It is rare that you have types that can work well and bring out the best in all types. The mark of a "successful" coach depends on what you define as "successful". A coach can only do so much. The other part depends on the skater. If a skater comes to a coach like Frank, know what he expects, and bucks his system then it is not on him but the skater. Let's not forget, the skaters/parents seek out these coaches.
     
  10. ekatsk8

    ekatsk8 New Member

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    Some skaters have problems (either their parents, or their own problems) that require help other than what a coach can give them. It's true that if he says, "I don't want whining, I want training," it may be hard on a skater. But the reality is if they do otherwise they won't succeed. He is also wise not to engage emotionally. The most successful people (in any field) also practice this principle. I understand him booting people from his training, esp those who display hostile behavior towards him. He is a top notch coach and if a student wastes time they are taking away an opportunity for another hardworking athlete to reach their potential. But, there are so many coaches out there, so hopefully everyone can find what they are looking for.
     
  11. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Épaulement!!!

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    Oooooh, zing! Wasn't it the 3F that brought Kwan down at SLC?
     
  12. canbelto

    canbelto Well-Known Member

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    Yup it was a triple flip that had been wonky in the short that killed Michelle in the long.
     
  13. Sparks

    Sparks Well-Known Member

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    As Frank once said to Mirai, "nobody died".

    At Frank's age he can pick and chose who he takes as a student. There is a reason he turned down Ashley.
     
  14. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Épaulement!!!

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    I didn't realize Ashley wanted to be coached by Frank, when was this?
     
  15. Sparks

    Sparks Well-Known Member

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    After she left Priscilla, she went around the country shopping for coaches. :sekret:
     
  16. Carolla5501

    Carolla5501 Well-Known Member

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    I don't think it would have worked. Frank wants you to do what he says during lessons etc. Chan wants to run his own show Not a match made in heaven!

    I doubt he's a saint, but as far as the Parker dealing.. he's probably less guilty of that mess then the USFSA as a whole. The "tone at the top" was "do what Parker" wants....
     
  17. Twizzler

    Twizzler Well-Known Member

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    It is refreshing and the way it should be, but I challenge you to find a parent who is willing to accept this. Most parents nowadays expect the coach to do everything, be everything, and get personally involved. It's sad.

    By allowing the coach to teach responsibility and independence, which Frank seems to do, the coach is ultimately developing a stronger competitor.
     
  18. ekatsk8

    ekatsk8 New Member

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    Bingo. I forgot if I mentioned this last post, but I teach in an artistic field. Nowadays the parents I work with more often expect "results" and that "the teacher is responsible" for producing those results; neither they nor their child should have to put in a lick of work or follow the teacher's advice. And they expect the teacher to yell at/parent their child. Those students are not going to be able to function in the world when they grow up. Those parents also (in my experience) ruin the reputation of whomever they are studying with. So FC is definitely making the right call to nip things like that in the bud.

    Coaches/teachers are powerless to change the way a child is brought up by their parents. The results can only be produced when the right conditions have been set at home (the child understands work ethic and personal responsibility), and the student is in the right place, physically and mentally, to work hard and be receptive to what their coach is saying. Just my 2c from dealing with this.

    Anyway with FC, reading this article, I found that he says the same thing as the top teachers/artists in my field.
     
  19. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    Shame too. Her triple Flips at Nats the month before and at Worlds the month later were pretty nice. She had an unusual psych block on the Flip in SLC.

    I guess it happens. Irina had trouble with her second flip in the Torino LP and her usual money jump, the loop, failed her.
     
  20. berthesghost

    berthesghost Well-Known Member

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    He seemed to make a lot of accusations about frank that jenny didn't lift a finger to support, yet she had no trouble chiming right in on the dick-bashing rant. Despite the name calling, I think Tim got off easy as he didn't really get anywhere in skating after frank. I can't believe the kwans continued to pay frank a cut all those years she made mad cash after she left him, as the haters insisted that greed is what drove her to fire him.
     
  21. lahaa968

    lahaa968 Active Member

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    Actually, it was at the end of the 2012-2013 season, when John Nicks told her he didn't wish to travel with her anymore. Ashley contacted Frank, who was busy with Evan, so he declined...as the summer went on, and with Evan's injury keeping him off the ice, he had a small window to be filled, and behold Gracie became his new pupil.
     
  22. attyfan

    attyfan Well-Known Member

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    IIRC, Kurt Browning also had trouble with his flip in the SP in '94. The flip clearly is an eville jump.
     
  23. DreamSkates

    DreamSkates Active Member

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    True, but difficult personalities may not have the goods to train the way they need to in order to be consistently successful.
     
  24. canbelto

    canbelto Well-Known Member

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    By difficult, I don't mean Christopher Bowman difficult. But more like skaters who aren't naturally driven and confident. For instance, Tamara Moskvina has been able to work with a variety of skaters considered difficult and inconsistent. Carroll's approach seems a bit too harsh for many skaters. That's the takeaway I get from this article.
     
  25. skatfan

    skatfan Well-Known Member

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    I think Frank can be pretty picky about who he takes on. He did turn down Ashley because at the time he had both Denis and Evan for the Olympics, and it was only their medical and visa issues that gave him extra time, and even then the USFSA had to broker a tryout for Gracie to work with Carroll. I'm sure that after Mirai, he doesnt need more headaches.
     
  26. Jammers

    Jammers Well-Known Member

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    If you go to Frank Carroll he expects you to do the work and leave the drama at home. With someone like Christopher Bowman that was impossible to do and no coach was going to be able to work with someone as messed up as Christopher. Mirai on the other hand i think was simply not as driven as someone like Gracie and probably had to be prodded to work hard at times.
     
  27. LilJen

    LilJen Well-Known Member

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    Ah--I was gonna say, when Ashley originally left Priscilla, Mirai was still with Frank, so why would he take on a direct competitor?

    One wonders what might have happened with US men if Evan hadn't been taking up (much of) Frank's time--all to no purpose in the end--for the last 4 years.
     
  28. Yazmeen

    Yazmeen Well-Known Member

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    There was definitely a purpose with Evan; you can't predict injury.
     
  29. berthesghost

    berthesghost Well-Known Member

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    yeah, I'm sure d10 was bitching about Evan being a time suck the whole podium ceremony. :rolleyes:

    Is there some story about Jason begging frank to tech him a quad I missed, or is this just another excuse to get in a cheap dig at an ogm?
     
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  30. LilJen

    LilJen Well-Known Member

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    No, I'm just saying that if Evan hadn't been a student of Frank's 2010-2014 he would have been free to take on another top American man. Which may have made a big difference for any of the top men this last quad--who knows? Abbott, Miner, Aaron, Dornbush? He had Jonathan Cassar, of course, but he never had the tech content of the top contenders.