Frank Carroll concerned: crunch time for Evan

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Yazmeen, Sep 17, 2013.

  1. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

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    Only I have never said that Button does not have a clue about skating. I said that he is talking shit a lot of the time, which he is. He seems to be obsessed about certain issues whilst ignoring a lot of others. Which gives a very skewed image of skaters' performances. It's fine if you are equally nitpicky with everyone or equally lenient with everyone. But Button will nitpick certain things and completely gloss over others.

    No, not all of them. However, I am yet to find an English speaking commentator who is not talking shit a lot of the time (as in making mistakes, not knowing the rules and so on). If you find one, please let me know. :)

    I guess nowadays I either try to watch skating sans commentary or watch it in other languages so it's definitely possible there are great commentators out there that I have never listened to. ;) I guess PJ Kwong is probably one. You can tell that she really cares about skating and she definitely does her research. :)

    It always shocks me how Chris Howarth and Nicky Slater - both of whom work in skating as coaches and choreographers - often lack knowledge of the IJS rules and fail to notice a lot of errors that should be apparent to somebody who's a skating insider. They also don't seem to do much background research on skaters and seem to know less about them than many skating fans do.

    P.S. Not everybody will know everything, it's only natural. When you don't know about something simply don't mention it, instead of pretending that you do know it and talk bullshit...

    The Polish Eurosport commentator is actually very decent. He knows what he's talking about, he points out a lot of details and gives some interesting background info as well (he won't for example say 'fantastic' when a pair team does a triple twist where a lady collapses onto the man instead of being caught by the waist and put down - which Chris/Simon/Nicky do regularly). I disagree with him a lot but he's honest and makes clear arguments for why he thinks a certain way and you can take it or leave it.
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2013
  2. Eladola

    Eladola Active Member

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    You're missing my point,

    What i meant was, Had the double been performed,
    Those points could have easily gone missing somewhere else in the score, You see ?
  3. Susan M

    Susan M Well-Known Member

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    There is a difference between not noticing errors and not mentioning them. When they are working a broadcast, they are not there to be judges or teachers. They are there to make an entertaining broadcast. The vast majority of their audience does not want every program to be picked to death. They want to take it for what they see. People especially disliked broadcasters picking out small errors during the program, as it detracted from enjoyment of the performance.

    It's the same reason most US broadcasters gloss over the math details of scoring. They started out trying to explain everything, but figured out pretty early on that much of the audience finds too much talking about detail more annoying than helpful. So, they settled on mentioning levels and base values, deductions and the second half bonus, without going into the math or the detail.

    I suspect this is at least in part because skating is not just sport but also art. Too much focus on the one kills the other.
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2013
  4. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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    I like the british commentators, they love every skaters, unlike the NBC commentators, who are tooooooo biased, they never shut up and always criticize any non-Americans to make their Americans look better.
  5. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

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    Of course, if there is a British connection, they might not be so boldly positive of Russians (case and point: 1995 Worlds Ice dance - Sandra Bezic was actually more impartial than the Eurosport duo).
  6. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    That reminds me of the Russian broadcast of the 2002 SLC Pairs where Irina Rodnina was doing commentary. When Sale/Pelletier's scores came up and people saw that they were second, Rodnina cheered. Highly professional, right?
  7. unicorn

    unicorn Member

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    I thought this long post was about your skating knowledge, actually it's a showoff of your knowledge about certain commentators. I thought you were trying to prove all those commentators were craps, it turned out it's just some times they talked shit about certain things.:lol: Together with your statement that saying Yagudin's footwork was all 3 turns and top picks, all totally rubbish.
  8. SmallFairy

    SmallFairy Well-Known Member

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    Commentators will always cheer for their own. Norwegian commentators are orgasming every time some Norwegian wins in skiing, they scream so loud they have no voice left and I fear they will have a heart attack.
    I agree it's not professional. Swedish commentator Roger Blomqvist in 2002 were gushing over S&P the whole pairs comp, since their coach was Swedish, he was so biased it was disgusting, B&S got no cred at all. No need to say I was furious, and equally happy when it said 2 next to S&P's names!
  9. kuzytalent

    kuzytalent Member

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    I like Evan unlike many in this thread it seems but I really hope he pulls the plus on his comeback. He isnt competitive with the best in the World anymore even at his best, and he has had too many injuries and too long off to realistically try and return to amateur competition and doing quads and triple axels at this age. You know the saying nothing to lose and everything to gain. Well for Evan it is more a nothing to gain and everything to lose, including possibly his own long term physical well being.

    Whether some disagree with it or not he will always be an Olympic, World, and Grand Prix final Champion, and that is something nobody can take away from him.
  10. ciocio

    ciocio New Member

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    If Inman praised Yagudin's footwork, I'm ready to forgive him. :D
  11. kuzytalent

    kuzytalent Member

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    I agree but wouldnt you say Plushenko did as well. Both had footwork far beyond the field, and very complex and musical, although totally different styles of footwork, almost equally effective.
  12. lala

    lala Well-Known Member

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    of course... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKEEuxPEP0U fantastic, very fast, exciting, fan to watch
  13. toddlj

    toddlj Well-Known Member

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    Okay, I'm giving up on this Evan thread which seems to have become a Plushy thread.
  14. Yazmeen

    Yazmeen Well-Known Member

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    I started this thread, will be more than happy to have an Admin put it out of its misery...
  15. dardar1126

    dardar1126 Well-Known Member

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    Twitter:

    EDIT:

    Last edited: Sep 30, 2013
  16. B.Cooper

    B.Cooper Active Member

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  17. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Tweeted by @amyrosewater at the Olympic Media Summit in Park City, Utah:
    Tweeted by @KellyWhiteside:
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2013
  18. l'etoile

    l'etoile New Member

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  19. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    Why not cheer when a Russian pair wins the OGM? It's a very understandable reaction. Is she supposed to keep a blank face, or may be you would have preferred if she had screamed like Scott Hamilton and Sandra Bezic- how could S&P possibly lose? You don't like Rodnina's joy when a Russian pair wins (unprofessional according to you) and you see nothing wrong with Sandra whining because 'her' pair did not win.

    Sandra Bezic has been openly pro-Canadian in just about every competition she commented on.

    I have not listened to much of other countries' commentators, but I thought the Canadian commentators were biased too in the GPF 2002 SP. The European commentators were 'nice' but sometimes inaccurate (it's a small sample size, and I admit that I need to listen to more of those).

    Overall though I feel our US commentators may be the worst. There are mistakes in their commentaries, and sometimes endless gushing mostly about American skaters. Dick Button is one of the few that may say something negative about a US skater and something glowing about a Russian (how dare he?- sarcasm). The quality of FS commentating is just not good, and that could be a part of the reason majority of people (not fans) don't understand it.
  20. Vash01

    Vash01 Well-Known Member

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    You may have a point. However, if there is a great commentator, I have not heard him/her. Many commentators have their strong points, but sometimes their weaknesses become overpowering.

    I am wondering if the famous skaters that become commentators later put less work into understanding the changes in the rules, etc. while those who were not that famous put more work into it? It's just a hypothesis, and I don't know if that's true. My personal preference is for commentators that explain specific moves - what was good about it, or not so good (or downright bad) and why. I like them to leave out unnecessary chatter, and unnecessary gushing. Simple praise is much more effective, IMO. That's just me though.

    I still have a soft spot for Dick & Peggy, and I have missed seeing them in recent years (Dick in particular).
  21. judiz

    judiz Well-Known Member

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    Getting back to Evan, which international comps are still available for Evan?
  22. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Re-posting from earlier in the thread:

    Ice Challenge in Graz, Austria (Nov. 19-24) is the latest of the 6 Senior B comps currently listed on USFS' International Assignments page; USFS has sent skaters in previous years to Golden Spin of Zagreb in Croatia - 2013 dates are Dec. 5-8.
  23. Maofan7

    Maofan7 Away

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  24. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    You've just made a huge assumption about me. It is possible to think that if someone was commentating and is expected to have some sort of objectivity that both behavior was less than professional. Let's turn the situation around. Had S/P won and Sandra Bezic screamed for joy, would you have been ok with that?
  25. jiejie

    jiejie Active Member

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    Torn labrum? Evan Lysacek's competitive career is over. Full stop. No US Nationals, no Sochi, no medical miracles. I expect this thread will meander on until the inescapable truth can't be avoided any longer.
  26. Yazmeen

    Yazmeen Well-Known Member

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    Wow, I'm actually a doctor and I wouldn't feel comfortable saying that for sure. You must have some magical insight into his hip injury to absolutely be sure of this. :rolleyes: I don't expect a good outcome here skating-wise either, but good grief, let's let the situation develop first before we make dire pronouncements.
  27. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    From Bonnie D. Ford's Olympics blog article for ESPN.com: http://espn.go.com/blog/olympics/post/_/id/3750/will-latest-injury-derail-lysaceks-sochi-hopes
    The wording in the part of his quote I bolded above is unfortunate, IMO.
  28. Iceman

    Iceman Well-Known Member

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    I think he should go ahead and skate at Skate America. He could do very little and still get the minimum scores required.
  29. SkateFan66

    SkateFan66 Active Member

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    Really, with a torn labrum? You might want to do a little research about the injury.:slinkaway
  30. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    She's wrong. He's wrong. For her it's not 2010 anymore lots of men do clean quads every competiton they Enter. She's just wrong about what's going on. He's just wildly exaggerating and being ridiculous As there is no 4 quad all falls performance. This is just wrong and like his comment prior about clean performances with quads being rarer than non quad Performances or whatever. Lots of performances with quads are clean. This article was a duet of ignorance.
  31. my little pony

    my little pony snarking for AZE

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    funny, i cant remember many 4 quad attempt programs
  32. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

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    Kevin Reynolds, I believe, was "attempting" 4 quads a couple seasons ago in his LP. I can't find any protocols that indicate that - at the CoC 2011 his protocols have three quads, with one (the Loop) receiving a downgrade.

    Anyway, I'd be interested who particularly Lysacek was referring to when he made his statement, because a number of the men that have fallen on the quad have certainly landed it before.
  33. unicorn

    unicorn Member

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    Clean performances with quads are muuuch less than those aren't clean. If he can compete, if he can still be rock solid, there's still a chance, why not. Look at Jeffrey Buttle at 2012 Japan Open, Elvis Stojko at 2000 worlds, or Todd Eldredge at 2001 worlds.
  34. jamesy

    jamesy Well-Known Member

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    you're much more likely to see a unicorn


    ahh...here's one:

  35. escaflowne9282

    escaflowne9282 Well-Known Member

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    Actually IIRC, VIETgrlTerifa was one of those who was pretty amused by Rodnina's reaction and has consistently been put off by Sandra Bezic. I think her overall point was that there was simply a lack of professionalism involved and that it's not particularly fair to be so overly critical of our country's commentators when others do the same thing .

    I will confess that Rodnina's reaction was somewhat cathartic for me after being subjected to NBC's behavior ...:shuffle:
  36. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    I couldn't help it. I'm a huge Berezhnaya/Sikharulidze fan and how can you not love Rodnina, the queen of Pairs skating. :)
  37. Coco

    Coco Well-Known Member

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    Yazmeen, others with labrum or medical experience - have you ever heard of a hip labrum healing without surgical intervention?
  38. MR-FAN

    MR-FAN Kostner Softie

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    UGH. Please. I've never been a fan of Evan. At all. But I'm soooo over his hypocrisy. Either have an opinion and stick to it, or just be quiet. This is the guy who kept attempting quads throughout 2006-2008 when he rarely landed a clean quad internationally. And criticized those who didn't even attempt it as taking the sports backwards. Then had the guts with all his failed Quads to advocate for a Figure skating jumping competition X-games style. Then criticized Abbott for winning 09 Nats and Chan for winning 09 4CC without even attempting a quad. Then goes ahead and wins worlds and the Olympics without a quad. Then suddenly adopts the stance he's always advocated against: "Quads are not everything!" And now he has the balls to criticize skaters going for quads and make up stories about make-believe skaters who attempt 4 quads without ever having landed one?????

    Be graceful you sour puss. /rant
  39. unicorn

    unicorn Member

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    ahh...that's three unicorns.
    jamesy and (deleted member) like this.
  40. jiejie

    jiejie Active Member

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    My magical crystal ball. But let's do it your way--we'll let the situation develop first. Then around, say, January-ish, can I come back and say "I told you so?"