Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by WhatsUpDoc, Feb 3, 2011.
Thanks for sharing..I was ...thought I heard it all but Michelle Republikwan?
You didn't know she was a Republican supporter? She didn't keep it a secret.
I wonder if gays outnumbered straights in the Men's event at US Nats. I can count at least 11 homos.
Michelle Republikwan Love it!
Hmmm - IMO the idea that there might be at least some truth to this might be the only explanation for Vaughn Chipeur being sent to the Olympics over Kevin Reynolds and Shawn Sawyer.
Yes I know he beat them at Nationals - but that in itself is highly questionable - seeing that his PCS were way beyond what he ever received internationally and the others were either on par or below for the most part - no Nats inflation. I would have rather seen either of the other 2 go and I am sure either of them would have done far better at the Olympics.
However, I watched a great deal of coverage and don't remember a ton of them talking about their sexuality in public - other than the talk of Scott and Jessica dating and NOT Scott and Tessa.
Um .... OK .... I mean .... well .... How exactly did you count them?
It was probably the trail of pixie dust they left that gave them away.
Such smugness, such self-righteousness, such protestations. Yes, so other than Johnny being a zzzzz math-challenged, Fabulous Gay Sterotype Celeb Fashionista with boring music, crap programs, degraded jumps and delusional fans, what is it about him that really pisses you off and makes you go bonkers?
I don't think your namesake is as intolerant of Johnny as you are. Yep, plenty of other gay male skaters who know how to keep a low profile and conform to what is expected. And now that Johnny Weir has gone through the fire and paid the heavy price for being too rebellious and too outspoken and too out there (yes, Lanna, this shit does hurt alright), there's been a kind of loosening of the strictures and macho pretenses. Of course there's always been a down low acceptance of being gay in fs because there simply are a lot of gay people in the sport. Post Johnny Weir, there is a more relaxed attitude toward "flamboyant" costumes and expressing one's creativity on the ice so long as you're not Johnny Weir and you keep your personal life underwraps off the ice.
Does it really matter?
So, basically, you're not going to be happy unless people say that they are don't like Johnny because he is gay, even if they have stated other perfectly valid reasons in their posts that have nothing to do with homophobia?
First off, I don't really care what party Michelle supports, but has she ever made a statement about her affiliation? I thought she just kept it private (which is usually smart). On the link that was posted, some of the commenters said she's Republican, some said she isn't, etc. I didn't realize that she had ever gone public with it.
Yes, Jenna, if the protestations of Lanna and ryanbfan hold any water, how could it possibly matter? But, the fact that Ziggy laid bare her ruminations, and you posed your question at all ... maybe provides answers on a number of levels.
Could the fact this line of thought comes to the forefront of one fs fan's [Ziggy's] mind, mean that it's hanging around somewhere consciously or unconsciously in the minds of others? I'd put money on that. No, it shouldn't matter, but at least two well known skaters (one humorously, the other strategically) have within the past few years made the pronouncement, "I'm not gay." Why, perhaps because the unspoken question (Is he gay or straight?) is always floating around somewhere in the air, in the ice tracings, underneath the Zamboni, in the stands, under the rafters, and in the judges' deliberations. And maybe Johnny Weir's ultimate impact is that his presence in the sport blasted the cover off the antiquated attitudes, strictures, macho pretenses and unwritten rules... Still yet, a long way to go until it truly doesn't matter.
So in your world I guess it's OK for Johnny to express his opinions and beliefs, but not for anyone else to do the same - that is, as long as they don't agree with you. If you're so big on tolerance, respect and acceptance, maybe you should try a little yourself.
Ya overedge, and you're quite big on splitting hairs and twisting meanings to whatever avail.
There's a difference between tolerance and respect in regard to human differences, and quite another in regard to calling out posters who flaunt their own intolerance, disrespect, and pretentiousness and then hide behind the guise of "I'm just expressing my opinions and beliefs about this skater's skating, and his celeb lifestyle which is so annoying, but not because he's gay."
Johnny expressing his opinions and beliefs is his business. It's not up to me to give my OK. The fact that he is outspoken is part of who he is, and it has not always benefited him within the confines of this sport. That is truly not the main focus of what the discussion in this thread is about, but you can make of it whatever you want, just as ryanbfan and Lanna can hold fast to their own thinking. I don't expect people to agree with everything I have to say, but that doesn't keep me from expressing what I feel.
Fantastically, I seem to recall having agreed with you maybe once or twice, but more often than not, no.
I believe it's entirely possible that we exist in the same world, just different vantage points.
What "guise" are they hiding behind? They both explained quite clearly and rationally why they feel the way they do. For you to label them intolerant and pretentious for saying that disliking Johnny's skating and persona does not equal being homophobic - well, that says way more about you than it does about them.
Clearly rational has nothing to do with your take. I do agree that ryanbfan and Lanna can speak for themselves, and probably will if they have anything more to say. Of course not liking a skater doesn't equate to being homophobic. The smugness, pretentiousness, and irrational dislike exhibited by many posters when referring to Johnny actually does say more about them than it does about Johnny, as I have said before. And obviously you are taking those words that I said out of context from another FSU thread. If you can't be rational, at least try to be original.
Explain what exactly is smug, pretentious and irrational about the comments those two posters made? I'm failing to see it. There's certainly irrationality here, but it ain't coming from Lanna or ryanbfan or overedge.
Why don't you go back and read Lanna's post, which ryanbfan said she agreed with, oleada. If you also agree, then there's no amount of explaining from me that's necessary. If you feel the same way they do, say it and stand by it yourself. Don't use them as club and cover.
This type of reaction isn't exclusive to Johnny, though. There have been other skaters who've been treated similarly on this board. Different skaters, over time, have been... I guess I'll call it "of special focus" on this board, where it's as if you can't even post a thread about them without the thread derailing. Ubers v. anti-ubers. Those skaters being gay or straight or purple - I've seen no common thread there. I actually think that Patrick Chan is one who is a good example - post a thread about him and watch it burn. Likewise, Yu Na Kim. Sasha Cohen (in her day). Michael Weiss. Evgeny Plushenko.
To me, it's more about whether or not the skater has lived up to expectations either on ice, or via what's come out of their mouth.
There could well be some fans who are homophobic, and who are going after Johnny because of their own homophobia. But to assume that anyone who doesn't like Johnny is homophobic is short-sighted.
I somehow doubt that Chris and Jeff retired at Skate Canada's urging or in response to them wanting them to be more macho. Jeff in particular, at least publicly, seems to be on quite good terms with Skate Canada. I suppose though if you're determined to see something where there isn't anything you'll find something
That's quite funny that you are accusing people of not being able to be rational. I think you are the number 1 poster failing to be rational as soon as Johnny's name comes up.
Basically you seem to be saying that no-one is allowed to dislike Johnny. It doesn't matter that they have valid reasons, coherent arguments or anything else for that matter. You just don't accept it, and worse feel the need to insult posters just because they disagree with you.
Johnny stopped being a skater about a year ago. Since then he's been one of those z-list celebrities who is running around trying to be famous, for fmaous sake. That's why I dislike him. In addition to this, some of his actions as he set out in his book has made me realise that there are many character traits of his that I simply don't like.
Also did anyone else laugh about Ziggy and HER thoughts
If there is only one employer in town and if you want to work, rightly or wrongly, you kiss that employers butt. I think this is a mantra of sorts, for those who wish to continue earning an income after retiring from figure skating. How can you be on the wrong side of Skate Canada or the ISU and still get regular Canadian work as a choreographer, coach, trainer or announcer?
Think of how many people, outside of figure skating, have to put up with stuff at work they really would not like to, because they need the money.
Oh good grief
The link was hilarious in all it's whateverness but this thread is getting equally entertaining. And even though I'll probably be shot dead here, I shall still post this.
1. I am gay, and proudly so.
2. I have never felt discriminated here because of my sexual orientation. Even the PSOTY thread should be a proof
3. No, I do not like Johnny Weir's character, I feel that he represents so many things that make people think of the stereotypical picture of gays. If he wants to be a celeb and cause a lot of attention, he may do that. I still don't have to like it.
4. I respect Weir's skating abilities though I share my opinion with some others that he did seem uninterested in skating/competitions for the last few years and kinda used his programs for showcasing costumes more than actually his talents. And I do think he could've been a better skater.
5. I don't find "masculine" skating any more valuable than any other style in men's skating. It still doesn't mean that I would have to like all the programs with trying something different. Sometimes risks are worth taking, sometimes not.
6. I think the sheer fact that we are having this battle proves that Weir has achieved everything he wishes for his future celeb status.
That sounds like a fun board. So funny stuff on there.
@GarrAarghHrumph post #49 - I appreciate your point of view and agree there are definitely skaters who excite posters to the point of over-the-top snarking. IMHO, Johnny takes the cake when it comes to snarky posts and derailed threads. There are various posts and threads about Johnny that seem a bit more personal than most of the rants against figure skaters that I’ve seen on this board. Some of the very personal remarks about Johnny seem to exhibit either jealousy, outrage, or something else that may be as Antmanb says, simply dislike, or on the other hand, as Ankka (who declares she is gay) says in point #3 of her post here: “I do not like Johnny Weir's character, I feel that he represents so many things that make people think of the stereotypical picture of gays.” Not shooting you down, Ankka. Kudos for expressing how you feel.
In regard to posters feeling let down by a skater because said skater did not live up to their expectations, well … For me, living up to my own personal expectations is challenging enough. I don’t feel that a skater has done something to hurt me if they don’t achieve what they and/ or everyone else expects. But to each his own likes, dislikes, and ways of viewing skaters.
Many are also missing the point, regarding homophobia (my comments and questions are not accusations). Homophobia was a topic brought up per the link in this thread, which I addressed. Sure, the disregard/ disgust for Johnny by some fans and by some people within skating may have more to do with his refusal to conform than it may have to do with his sexuality or his personality – in some cases, it’s probably a toss-up. The really entertaining thing to me is not the reactions to Johnny’s flamboyance, or his outspoken rebelliousness, or his sexuality, and not even the views on his skating – what’s really fascinating is the seeming ability of some posters to see inside his head (i.e., “Weir has achieved everything he wishes for his future celeb status” and the amazing feat some posters have of predicting Johnny’s future (a poster in another thread claims that Weir’s modeling career “won’t last” -- as if the poster knows for sure that Johnny desires to continue modeling and for how long, and what the outcome will be).
My intention is not to pick on Lanna -- her views are her own, and I can sympathize with some of her feelings. However, the claim that Weir seemed like he “hadn’t wanted to compete” over the past several years, and that “he played a damn game with the media over his sexual orientation” to me seems very damning, and over-the-top angry. If Johnny “hadn’t wanted to compete,” he sure has pretended very well over the past several years -- and perhaps he was pretending a bit during the 2007-08 season when his heart wasn't really in it -- In any case, Johnny was the only U.S. team member to medal at 2008 Worlds, won silver at Nats that same year, won bronze 2 years in a row at GP finals, competed while not fully recovered from an illness at 2009 Nats, won a berth on 2010 U.S. Olympic team and competed well enough in the judges minds to place sixth though many –not just his fans—thought he should have placed higher. Perhaps the Olympic judges agree with Ankka and others who suspect that Johnny is just an uncompetitive slacker interested only in “using his programs to showcase his costumes,” and to enhance his “celeb status.”
Regarding the remark that Johnny “played a damn game with the media” – If anyone is involved in game-playing, I’d have to say it’s the ISU, the federations, and the media. The athletes keep themselves focused on their goals and seem to do the best they can to adhere to what the system requires. Johnny has had trouble focusing and adhering, maybe because he rebelled against being told what to do. But, IMHO, he was not the one playing games in regard to his sexuality, simply because he was outspoken but refused to discuss his sexuality during the years he competed. The media slammed 21-year-old Johnny after his The Swan sp at the 2006 Olympics, with all the articles speculating he must be gay. He was also publicly slammed by Mark Lund in that famous pre-Nationals 2007 tv broadcast.
Johnny did not shy away from the gay issue generally, when asked, but in regard to himself, he tended to skirt it (no pun intended). Johnny has said he feels that his sexuality has nothing to do with his skating and he doesn’t believe in labels. He didn’t discuss being gay personally (until it became an open book). Obviously, it is not something most skaters willingly discuss. How many eligible (or non-eligible) skaters voluntarily talk publicly about their sexual orientation and, of course, why should they? Rudy Galindo is the only one I can recall, and his doing so was not easy, as he describes in his autobiography. Brian Orser was outed well after eligible retirement, by a former companion. John Curry famously answered “Yes” to the media’s prying question, “Are you gay?” -- but only after he had won the Olympic gold medal and was headed toward a professional career.