For Evan Lysacek, countdown to Sochi Games is on

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, Jun 5, 2013.

  1. AJ Skatefan

    AJ Skatefan Well-Known Member

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    Jenny Kirk's interview with Frank Carroll and the fact that Frank Carroll has moved his training site to better accommodate Evan and Denis tells me that Evan is serious about this. It may not pan out because of injuries or whatever, but I think he's going to give it a good try.
     
  2. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    Note to self:

    Bookmark this, and ask for video evidence if this all comes to pass. :COP:
     
  3. my little pony

    my little pony snarking for AZE

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    or frank moved his training site because palm springs is way too hot in the summer and really boring a lot of the time. or he got a better offer at toyota. or because denis is more of a medal contender than he was this time last yr. but i expect evan to be at skam, watching with the commentators. same for nats and sochi.
     
  4. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    I'm always wondering what about Evan makes certain posters get schizophrenic or even become stalkers (one poster comes to mind). He is not polarizing, and by all accounts, he's lovely in person. I'm saying this as someone who was something of a fan, but no longer. However, I wish him well and don't really care if he comes back or not. If he does, great! It will add to the excitement. If not, there's a bunch of US men with a shot.
     
  5. AJ Skatefan

    AJ Skatefan Well-Known Member

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    That's pretty much how I feel about it too.
     
  6. spikydurian

    spikydurian Well-Known Member

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    :lol:
     
  7. judiz

    judiz Well-Known Member

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    Not an Evan fan but I do admire his work ethic, personally I think he tends to be OCD when it comes to training but it's his body, would love it if all who want to compete were able to but nothing is guaranteed in life.
     
  8. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    This is like so backhanded. He's bland! He's Boring! Who cares if he wins? Or what he did or says?! Three Olympics in a row were won by men who did quads or mutilple quads and the he goes and says anyone who doesn't like the fact that he won without one wants to abolish figure skating and replace it with a jump contest! No it was not abOut abolishing figure skating and replacing it with top jump. How about some standards for athleticism in sports? Some standard for jumps!
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2013
  9. misskarne

    misskarne #408

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    I think Lysacek has many factors that draw people to dislike him. He is a bit polarizing. I'll see if I can identify a few:

    - The Johnny-fans still bitter over the rivalry/fact that Evan became the golden boy for the USFSA
    - Those who saw his nasty tweet about Johnny's gender (and rather pathetic ensuing attempts to cover it up)
    - Those rather confused when Lysacek fans proclaim that Plushenko does little more than "flail" but Lysacek is apparently some great arteest
    - The triple Salchow that is somehow called a triple Axel
    - The old "Evan works harder than anyone else" which always makes me want to strangle something because guess what, EVERY SKATER WORKS HARD
    - His irritating portrayal during Vancouver as the "sweet innocent All-American Boy fighting against the Evil Communist Russian Plushenko*"
    - And of course, the issue that he fully intends on swanning back in after almost four years out and expecting (and receiving) Grand Prixs, byes to Nationals, even a berth on the World/Olympic team, ahead of skaters that really have been working their butts off and are far more deserving.



    * - Evil Communist Russian Plushenko is a trademark of the NBC.
     
  10. spikydurian

    spikydurian Well-Known Member

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    When skaters dominates, there will be some fans who shout at each other "who's the greatest of them all"! This is not applicable only to Lysacek. Of course beating Plushenko by a hair's breadth makes all the 'fan fighting' more colourful.

    The competition is over. It's interesting to watch the aftermath biitching continuing into the next Olympics.

    One man's meat is another man's poison.

    That is Lysacek's trademark. No, I don't think every skater works hard. There were some highly talented skaters who didn't reach their potential, and 'hard work and focus' may be one of the reasons.

    There you go. You think Lysacek is not working his butts off, and only other skaters are? ;) There are rules and if he is given a place within the rules, there's nothing wrong? It can happen to other skaters and not just Lysacek.
     
  11. centerpt1

    centerpt1 Active Member

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    Gotta admit , this bugs me most of all. He's been hiding out, avoiding competition, and conserving his body while others have been competing. I don't call that a strong work ethic. Every skater at the elite level works hard. Evan has done nothing for Figure Skating in the last 3 years. It's all about him and $$$$. Yet now he is prepared to waltz back on the scene and be the Feds favorite once again.

    (and yes, I watched the negative tweet and his lies unfold)
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2013
  12. misskarne

    misskarne #408

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    The Weir fans still butthurt over it amuse me greatly. It's not like it was even that epic a rivalry.

    Well yeah, but I didn't feel like being beheaded by Weir fans this morning. But most skaters work very hard, especially at that level. Does Lysacek really work harder than Plushenko? I doubt it. It does take a lot of work to reach that level. (It takes a lot of work to reach any level in skating.)


    Nah, nah, nah, I didn't say that. ;) I said other skaters DESERVE it more. They have been throwing themselves out there and competing and working their way up the ranks and suddenly Lysacek decides to swan back in and bypass all that. I still think both he and Weir should be made to qualify for Nationals.
     
  13. SkateFan66

    SkateFan66 Active Member

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    Why hold what other people say about Lysacek against him? Yes, the NBC commentators, Euro Sports commentators, and Canadian commentators all stated that Evan worked hard, was the best trained athlete, etc.. Moreover, other skaters have mentioned how hard Evan trains. (Jenny Kirk, Jason Brown, Mirai Nagasu) Before, the Olympics, Nagasu posted this on her webpage:

    Did I also mention that Evan is the best training buddy ever? No matter how tired he is, he pushes himself to do his programs, so he can do it in any kind of situation. Watching him train is so motivating for me...I try to follow his example by doing programs with the intensity he has, but somehow my attempts just don't match his....Thank you Evan for always being there to give me a piece of advice and motivating me to do my best! http://www.figureskatersonline.com/mirainagasu/journal4.htm

    I don't recall people getting upset when Plushenko took over three years off from competing, returned in the 2010 Olympic season, and was given a GP assignment (Cup of Russia). ;)

    FYI, Lysacek is not the only skater that has earned a bye to the 2014 US Nationals. The bye for winning an Olympic medal has been in place long before Evan won his Olympic gold medal. I get a good laugh when people argue that Evan getting a bye to Nationals denies a more deserving skater of an opportunity to compete. :lol:....please tell me how. The skaters without a bye qualify via sectionals. None of the skaters with a bye prevent any skater from qualifying through sectionals. In fact, since some skaters have byes, it actually allows more...not less skaters...to qualify for nationals.
     
  14. SkateFan66

    SkateFan66 Active Member

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    I guess a strained MCL in September 2011, a groin injury in the Summer-Fall of 2012, and a torn abdominal muscle that required surgery in November 2012 is Evan's way to "conserve his body." :rolleyes:
     
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  15. SkateFan66

    SkateFan66 Active Member

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    How soon we forget. Lysacek worked many years working his way up the ranks, and won two world bronze medals, a World Championship, and an Olympic Gold Medal. He did not "bypass" anything. Lysacek EARNED his bye to US Nationals by winning on Olympic medal. All that bye will give Lysacek is an opportunity to compete for a spot on the Olympic team, and it does not deny any other skater of the opportunity to compete for a spot on the Olympic team.
     
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  16. BittyBug

    BittyBug Kiteless

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    :huh:
     
  17. attyfan

    attyfan Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if Evan's "Q rating" (used by advertisers to measure the credibility of various celebrities in picking who gets used in ads) has been affected by the "comeback talk" without any competition. Furthermore, he hasn't done SOI because of his training ... which is probably costing him a pretty penny, SOI being the prime money maker for pro skaters. I think Evan is acting in good faith ... he is certainly putting himself at great risk if he doesn't compete. However, I think that if Evan shows up at SA and Nats and does his best ... even if he doesn't make the team, he will earn back a lot of the regard that has been lost by the talk.
     
  18. judiz

    judiz Well-Known Member

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    Actually it was Frank Carroll who said this to Evan before he skated on the ice and I always felt like yelling back to Frank, "what about the skaters who have to work at jobs in order to pay for their training? " I often wondered how many talented skaters never made it because they couldn't afford to spend 8 hours a day on the ice.
     
  19. dariko

    dariko New Member

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    When you're 6'2", not very artistic, and there's tons of short skaters out there with much more talent than you, don't you almost have to outwork everybody if you have Olympic gold medal aspirations?
     
  20. Suze

    Suze Active Member

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    I think a second Olympic appearance from Evan would be rather exciting and drive more (US) folks to tune in to men's skating. Though I am not particularly awed by his skating, I like that he can churn out relatively clean and consistent performances when the pressure is on.
     
  21. sassybuford

    sassybuford New Member

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    Sochi would be Evan's third Olympics; he finished fourth in Torino.
     
  22. Jaana

    Jaana Well-Known Member

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    Are you serious or just having a very bad memory??? Lysacek tried to come back for 2012-13 season, but unfortunately got injured. And already a year before that he planned for a comeback, but had to cancel it because of sponsor/management problems. I definetely donĀ“t see his comeback as a sudden idea.....:eek:
     
  23. spikydurian

    spikydurian Well-Known Member

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    Coaches like to talk up their skaters. 'Evan works harder than anyone else' is probably just an expression on 'how hard Lysacek works' or 'Lysacek is one of the most hard working skater'. Why take it so personally? Whilst I think some skaters who have well-to-do families to support their full time training, it is not their fault that some skaters have to work to pay for their training. In some countries, talented skaters are sent overseas for training and all expenses paid by their federations. They are even luckier. Shall we fault them for their luck?
     
  24. Japanfan

    Japanfan Well-Known Member

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    With all due respect, I think Evan wants publicity more than to actually compete at the OG. As they say, all publicity is good publicity. He milked his return last year for all it was worth, so why not do it again?

    I think it highly unlikely that he will actually get to Nationals and qualify for the Olympics. If he does, he'll need at least two quads to compete with the top guys and I can't see that happening. Sure, the top guys might bomb - but even so, I don't yet believe Evan will make it to the OG.

    When is Weir going to throw his name into the hat? Or, is he too busy competing for cooking titles on the Food Channel?
     
  25. olympic

    olympic Well-Known Member

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    If your beef is about technical standards (at the time) in skating, you need to direct your anger more at the ISU, not Evan. He and his team found a way to work the system to maximize points w/o a quad because of the rules the ISU had in place that season.Again, I'm pointing this out as an outside observer and someone who in this quadrennial is no longer really an Evan fan. I liked him leading up to 2010 but I've moved on and don't care if he comes back or not, probably because he hasn't really shown us anything since 2010.

    And frankly, if you were this obsessed with everything a work colleague, girlfriend/boyfriend, acquaintance said or did, you'd be close to a Restraining Order
     
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  26. caseyedwards

    caseyedwards Well-Known Member

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    Lol

    So he used the point system well? That doesn't mean anyone wanted the abolition of the sport when they brought up him not doing a quad in a negative way. He's a public figure and if he wants to say people wanted the sport abolished than that means people can say they don't like that and go to an online CHat and ask him about it! the isu did change the rules and they were right to do but he still said what he said.
     
  27. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    I think the polarizing thing about Evan has largely been due to him holding contrary positions on things.

    In 2008, he felt that the quad was an essential part of a program. In 2009, he won Worlds without a quad. In January 2010, he said the quad was essential to winning the Olympics and that whoever skated clean with a quad at the Olympics would win. A few days later, he splatted on the quad in in his Nationals LP, and of course, by the Olympics, he said winning was about much more than just one jump. By 2013, he said quads could give skating X games appeal. Now he is a little more circumspect.

    For Lysacek, it seems that his opinion on how important the quad is as an element of figure skating varies depending on how well he is landing it in practice at that moment. It’s rather transparent, IMO, and a cause of amusement and eye-rolling for some skating fans. Others discuss the quad from more of a historical perspective (how the previous couple of champions all had it, and how rule changes have brought it back), but his take is, IMO, more self-centric.

    Someone like Joubert also annoys fans by talking too much about the quad (I have certainly seen criticism that he focuses on it to the detriment of the rest of his skating, or that he is just a jumping machine), but at least he puts his money where his mouth is and tries one in nearly every competition.

    Then there were his comments about his masculinity, apparently to distance himself from Weir. He was only comfortable wearing black, but those black costumes had some pretty flamboyant sequins and feathers, which was at best, very amusing, and at worst, made him look like a hypocrite. He was presented as a “great straight hope” which is something that has always bothered many skating fans (think Michael Weiss, Elvis Stojko), even though his persona was hardly macho. This article and this one touch on what I’m trying to say. Just this weird cognitive dissonance thing he seemed to have going on.

    Finally, there's (which misskarne touched upon) the notion that Lysacek was this complete skater along the lines of Buttle, Lambiel, or Takahashi, whereas I think Lysacek’s 2008-2010 programs were very much using the Plushenko formula of big music punctuated by jumps, not too many transitions, and a big flaily footwork sequence at the end. I don't mind this style (which is why I liked both Lysacek and Plushenko as skaters) but I preferred earlier Lysacek with his Rachmaninoff, Singing in the Rain, and Espani Cani programs. By the end of his career, it was basically pick old skating warhorse and copy and paste onto last year’s choreography. Many skaters do this, I don’t begrudge him, but I also don’t think he should have been held up as some example of a “new system skater” who makes up for a lack of difficult jumps with amazing component marks or spins and steps (that'd be Lambiel, and I don't even like Lambiel that much). I remember Scott Hamilton going on and on about how Lysacek is about what’s “on the ice” and Plushenko is “in the air” as if their skating styles were so radically different and Plushenko hardly deserved to be called a figure skater (well, it’s true that Lysacek’s triple axel was completed “on the ice” and Plushenko’s were done “in the air” ;)). Even if Lysacek didn’t participate directly I’m sure this colored opinions on him.

    As for the “hard work” thing, he certainly participated in many fluff pieces about this issue, and I don’t blame him. I tend to think it’s either that he doesn’t have a very compelling backstory or he doesn’t care to delve into his backstory so the default storyline about him is that he “works really hard” which indeed, is not unique among elite athletes! It’s sort of like Flatt and her being really smart and going to an Ivy League school; the same is true for many US figure skaters, but Flatt came to prominence as a National Champion and there really wasn’t anything else to talk about besides that, so she had fluff pieces showing how hard she studies.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2013
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  28. Iceman

    Iceman Well-Known Member

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    Evan did a clean long program with a quad toe/ triple toe at 07 nationals http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8zJXcviX0I

    He has a quad for this year from the practice sessions I have seen on film. Evan has a steadiness that many of his competitors don't have. This will serve him well and I expect his DWTS experience will greatly enhance his artistic side.
    Imho With or without a quad he will be near the top at his competitions this coming season.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2013
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  29. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    FWIW, here's Dave's and Jenny's take re (GP assignments) and the Lysacek/ Weir comeback possibilities: :)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wox91rf7CPc starting about 5:40 re Lysacek and Weir discussion


    Dave's mention of Frank Carroll having a new favorite young Asian skater is intriguing. Who is she?
     
  30. Yazmeen

    Yazmeen Well-Known Member

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    My take is that some posters here are slamming Evan right and left because they are absolutely terrified that he will actually make a serious comeback and potentially contend for both the US Olympic team and an Olympic medal.

    He is not breaking any rules in attempting this comeback, he is not being given any gifts, he is not being given chances that should go to other skaters (I too, had to laugh at how it's "wrong" for Evan to come back now but fine for Plushenko to essentially do the same thing in 2010...). If you don't like Evan, fine, he's not everyone's cup of ice tea. That said, however, he has the right to compete in the Grand Prix, etc. because he was the OGM in the last cycle. That rule wasn't made especially for him. He may do it, he may not, but whining about how he shouldn't be doing this doesn't change anything. At this point, he intends to compete. If he realizes by Skate America that he doesn't have the right stuff for another Olympic go, I think that will be the last we see of him. There is nothing wrong with him trying nor with him generating a little publicity around it. Considering that the other men potentially in contention to make the US Olympic team have a fairly remote chance of medaling at all in Sochi up against Chan, Takahashi, Hanyu, Fernandez, etc., I don't blame Evan one damned bit for at least taking his shot here.