For Evan Lysacek, countdown to Sochi Games is on

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by Sylvia, Jun 5, 2013.

  1. her grace

    her grace Well-Known Member

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    I think he stays in the spotlight because of his past results, not because no other current man has great results. To compare, from the last summer Olympics, Liukin and Johnson got a ton of media attention pre-olympics even though the U.S. team was doing great without them (reigning World team and all-around champion). The media and sponsors know few pay attention to Olympic sports in non-Olympic years, so they go with past champions for their name recognition.
     
  2. Sparks

    Sparks Well-Known Member

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    FTR - Rafael wasn't in Torino because he was having visa problems.
     
  3. kwanfan1818

    kwanfan1818 I

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    Lysacek *had* been one of the two best US skaters in the last Olympic cycle, during which time he won the only two titles most people care about, Worlds and Olympics. In this Olympic cycle, the only thing he's been consistent about are announcing comebacks and not competing, whether due to injury or a dispute with USFS. He's four years older and has suffered serious injuries. The Olympics are not in his back yard where he's considered a hero by the general public that pays attention to his sport. He's got guts, but he hasn't been in competition outside Dancing with the Stars since Vancouver. Nor was he in the 12 Days of Sochi NBC hype video.

    The years of coming up through the ranks and winning title after title or trading them ended for US Men when school figures were abolished, and, even in the school figures years, the US Men took far longer than the Ladies to recover from the 1961 crash: it was 24 years between David Jenkins' win in 1960 until Scott Hamilton's in Sarajevo, and school figures ensured that win and his run of dominating his Olympic cycle at Worlds, the last man to do so, although Browning and Plushenko came close.

    The only US man to consistently medal post figures was Eldredge (in the cycle leading to Nagano) with a WC title and other podium finishes. The dominant skaters post-figures were Browning, Stojko, Yagudin, and Plushenko and recently Chan. Russian dominance blocked Weiss and Goebel, and until Lysacek won Worlds in 2009, it had been 13 years, Eldredge's in 1996, since a US Man had won a World Championship. In the eleven Olympics from 1948 (Button) to 1988 (Boitano), US Men had been off the Olympic podium twice, in 1972 and 1976. Between 1992 and 2010, US Men were off the podium in three of six Olympics. US Men won two Olympic medals between Boitano's and Lysacek's wins: Wylie's surprise silver and Goebel's bronze.

    Johnny Weir is the only US Man to win three US titles in a row since Boitano at the end of the school figures era.

    Kwan's consistency and name recognition spoiled everyone post school figures, but she, too, had formidable competition and never won more than two WC's in a row, although she was in the mix for a long, long time. Since 1988, US Men have been more :wuzrobbed than :cheer2: It's only recently that US Ladies have caught up.
     
  4. hydro

    hydro Well-Known Member

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    I seem to recall an interview where he said he was en-route the day Kwan made the announcement in Torino.
     
  5. Yazmeen

    Yazmeen Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, judiz, I corrected that. Slip of the fingers!
     
  6. aliceanne

    aliceanne Well-Known Member

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    I think with all the skaters mentioned in this thread the spirit is willing but the body is not. True, making a successful comeback and medaling in international competition as Plushenko and Kim have is extremely rare, but when your identity is tied to your sport it is hard to move on.

    In Evan's case I'm sure there are a lot of people with a vested interest in seeing him compete again whether he does well or not.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2013
  7. aftershocks

    aftershocks Well-Known Member

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    To each their own opinion. IMO, Evan deserves kudos for his hard work and determination. Nothing anyone has to say diminishes his accomplishments in the tough realm that is competitive fs. But same token just b/c Evan has that prestigious OGM, should not overshadow nor diminish the significant impact and accomplishments of Evan's closest U.S. rivals, Jeremy Abbott and Johnny Weir. Abbott is not a GPF champion, multiple GP series medalist, and a 3-time U.S. champion because he lacked consistency "time after time." If Johnny was as inconsistent as many seem to believe, he would not be a 3-time U.S. champion, multiple GP series medalist and World bronze medalist.

    What ultimately has hurt Abbott IMO is his tendency toward over-thinking and self-doubt which has happened in huge moments that negatively impacted his career trajectory. Johnny admittedly suffered from competitive nerves that hurt him most dramatically in his Torino fp. But the bigger factors that affected both Jeremy and Johnny IMO was not having the solid political backing and iconic legendary coach that Evan fortunately benefited from having.

    Frankly, Evan did not skate perfectly at 2005 Nationals or Worlds, and he was lucky politically at both events as an up-and-comer heavily favored by his federation. Evan skated poorly in Torino sp and made a comeback in fp, which was hugely played up in the media, cementing Evan being characterized as a dependable competitor. Of course, the opposite happened to Johnny. I doubt all the post Torino sp press speculation about Johnny 's sexuality was helpful to him either. Nor was JW's decision to change his fp 2 weeks before the Olympics b/c of critical comments.

    Going into Vancouver as U.S. champion with two kick-ass programs perhaps should have given Jeremy the edge and more confidence, but clearly Evan was U.S. Fed favorite, while Johnny and Jeremy were taken for granted. Case in point: at U.S. Nats 2008, Evan made sloppy errors in his fp, but still won in a debatable victory over Johnny. At 2011 Nats, Jeremy skated brilliantly in sp, but was placed behind Ryan B. Then Jeremy made sloppy errors in his fp but despite his international success, his superior talent, and veteran status, he was completely left off the World team by .19, the measure by which the U.S. men lost international status and competitive momentum as well as individual and collective confidence.

    Evan benefited from the quad not being a requirement in Torino, plus Plush's hissy fit as a direct result of Evan's win helped change the men's competitive landscape -- another factor heavily impacting U.S. men.

    Again none of this diminishes Evan's accomplishments. His enthusiasm, single-minded focus and hard work enabled him to take advantage of good luck and political favor. Evan was a warrior right time, right place. ETA: No doubt if the cards were in Evan's favor agewise, he'd ace the quad too and be in the Sochi mix. But same could be said for Johnny if age and opportunity were in his favor. Johnny certainly also had the striking attention-grabbing talent that helped add to U. S. men's competitive presence on the World scene circa 2004 - 2010.

    BTW kwanfan1818, thanks for the historical perspective in your #273 post.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2013
  8. Kelvster

    Kelvster Well-Known Member

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    V. insightful post, aftershocks. U are one objective commentator :)

    i tend to go all snarky when it comes to Evan v Johnny v Jeremy. But deep inside I know that they all have their strengths and each is to be deeply respected :)
     
  9. skatesindreams

    skatesindreams Well-Known Member

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    Many thanks to kwanfan and aftershocks for their well-reasoned comments.
     
  10. Yazmeen

    Yazmeen Well-Known Member

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    Also my thanks to both of them, the comments were definitely insightful. I certainly wasn't trying to diminish either Johnny or Jeremy's talents; it was just unfortunate that those talents didn't hit their max on the Worlds and Olympic stage as Evan's hard work more than talent did (I'm not a Jeremy fan, but my heart broke for Johnny in Torino with the free skate especially).
     
  11. reese

    reese Well-Known Member

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  12. Cheylana

    Cheylana Well-Known Member

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    Not surprising, but best of luck to Evan on his future endeavors, skating or otherwise.
     
  13. SkateFan66

    SkateFan66 Active Member

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    Lysacek will be on the Today Show on Tuesday.

    Not surprised that he will not compete this season. In early September, when it was announced that he had the slight abdominal tear (near the location where he had the surgery for the abdominal tear last season), I knew the chances of him competing this season were slim. Then, in late September, when he announced that he had the torn hip labrum, I knew the chance of him competing were slim to none. However, as a fan, I hoped and prayed for a miraculous recovery.

    Evan was skating beautifully in July with no apparent residuals from his surgery last November. I had really hoped that he could stay healthy and compete this season. However, it was not meant to be. (Unfortunately, Evan has a history of being injury prone...had to WD from 2 GP finals and 2008 Worlds b/c of injury, & competed w/ stress fracture). My hope now is that Evan takes enough time to fully rehab the injuries.

    Best wishes to Evan in his future endeavors.
     
  14. Jaana

    Jaana Well-Known Member

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    I expected this, and feeling very sad for Evan. Anyway, he tried and did his best to compete at the Olympics. It just was not meant to be. Fortunately he can be very proud over his skating achievements as he won every title that matters in skating: US National, GPF, Worlds and Olympic champion. So far there has been in the whole world only 23 Olympic champions in men´s figure skating and different persons winning that title even less.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2013
  15. judiz

    judiz Well-Known Member

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    The Today Show seems to have become the place for skaters to announce their retirements and future plans, won't be surprised if Evan was offered some sort of position with Team USA as they make final preparations for Sochi.
     
  16. Rafter

    Rafter Well-Known Member

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    They just showed Evan...he doesn't look too happy.
     
  17. victorskid

    victorskid Skating supporter

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    They are dragging this out into the 2nd hour - they've "teased" it several times, showing Evan sitting waiting...
     
  18. Frau Muller

    Frau Muller President of Dick Button Appreciation Club

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    Evan to appear on TODAY Show in 16 minutes' time - at 8:16AM EST, to be exact. He has a big announcement to make - "a game changer," according to show host Matt Lauer (as if he were the great expert of current men's skating...ha-ha).

    Not 8:15AM....not 8:17AM....exactly at 8:16AM, as per on-screen clock. LOL!

    I'm wondering if it may be something slicghtly different from what we expect (the retirement) - maybe to say that he & USFSA will be petitioning to allow him to skate only the Team Event in Sochi?
     
  19. ilovepaydays

    ilovepaydays Well-Known Member

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    Watching the TODAY show right now (and watching the snow :) ) They keep showing Evan and he's not smiling or coming across as positive. AT ALL.
     
  20. Frau Muller

    Frau Muller President of Dick Button Appreciation Club

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    Interview just ended: EVAN WILL NOT COMPETE IN SOCHI (or anything leading up to it). FOCUS ON GETTING HEALTHY. NO retirement plans yet.
     
  21. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    Shock?



    No retirement plans? He can't make it to 2018, and it doesn't appear he's had any interest in non-Olympic competitions, at least this quad. I guess it is a good sign for figure skating that the Today show thought the announcement was worth broadcasting.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2013
  22. aliceanne

    aliceanne Well-Known Member

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    The biggest problem with U.S. Men is that there aren't any. I looked at the results for 2013 South Atlantic Regionals and there were no men competing at the senior or novice level, and only 2 at the junior level. That was not the only region that had no men competing at the higher levels.

    Johnny and Evan's Olympic aspirations were not as unrealistic as they sounded.
     
  23. Sylvia

    Sylvia Bring on the JGP & Sr B comps!

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    The men often are byed to Sectionals if there are 4 or fewer registered to compete. 6 Novice men registered for South Atlantics but all were byed to Easterns this year.

    I started a new news thread: Due to injury, Lysacek will not compete in the 2013-14 Olympic season
     
  24. aliceanne

    aliceanne Well-Known Member

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    Then why would they have 2 men competing at juniors? Why not give them a bye also?
     
  25. Sylvia

    Sylvia Bring on the JGP & Sr B comps!

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    Skaters (and teams) have the choice to compete or not if there are 4 or fewer registered. Some prefer to save money if it's an expensive trip; others may want to test out their programs and check their levels, etc.
     
  26. Skittl1321

    Skittl1321 Well-Known Member

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    It's worth noting, you have to make this choice before you know how many other people are registered and what their decisions are. At, least, that is how the forms used to be set up. They don't call you and ask if you still want to skate, you check it on the form when you register.
     
  27. Blondie12

    Blondie12 New Member

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    Johnny commented a few weeks ago that there is alot of emotion involved in a retirement decision. I imagine Evan can only process one at a time and it was too emotional to actually announce retirement. Maybe we will still see him in Japan Open or something like that
     
  28. Jammers

    Jammers Well-Known Member

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    Evan needs to retire. He will be 29 next year and will not have competed in over 4 years.
     
  29. SkateFan66

    SkateFan66 Active Member

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    Do you feel that he should retire from skating or just retire from competing?
     
  30. Jammers

    Jammers Well-Known Member

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    Competing. He can do shows and not have to worry about pushing his body so much.