Flatt hurt for Worlds but skates anyways !

Discussion in 'Great Skate Debate' started by ProgramerUSFS, Apr 30, 2011.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. ProgramerUSFS

    ProgramerUSFS New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2010
    Messages:
    154
    I don't know about you guys, but I am shell shocked to hear that Flatt went thru with skating hurt for the US team. I would think that at a world competition one would think about what it means for your team, not what it means to the coach or yourself. I blame more the coach, as he should have known beter. You don't take a kid and have them skate hurt! Have a little class, as Michelle withdrew from the Olympics when she was hurt. She didn't want to, but she did it for her countries best interest.

    I am sure the excuses will come, but the fact remains, that she or her coach didn't inform US figure skating that she was hurt. And the US has been a partner helping to pay for her trips and support her for many years, but Tom and Flatt didn't think the US should be briefed at least.
     
  2. ioana

    ioana Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2002
    Messages:
    5,069
    Ryan Bradley skated with a broken bone at last year's Worlds, Joshua Farris also finished his LP at Sr Nationals on a broken ankle...all Tom Z students. I never was a big fan of Rachael Flatt, but I'm sorry this is how her last Worlds outing would end.
     
  3. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2002
    Messages:
    20,569
    If she was injured, she should have been replaced with Mirai Nagasu.

    US might earned 3 Ladies spots for next season then.
     
  4. IceAlisa

    IceAlisa Épaulement!!!

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2002
    Messages:
    30,746
    Exactly. I am still not understanding why she didn't WD.
     
  5. Loves_Shizuka

    Loves_Shizuka Gettin' my sass out

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2005
    Messages:
    12,352
    Well I can see the direction this thread will take... :slinkaway
     
  6. Finnice

    Finnice Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2004
    Messages:
    5,046
    Stay away!
     
  7. Loves_Shizuka

    Loves_Shizuka Gettin' my sass out

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2005
    Messages:
    12,352
    I will stay away in terms of active posting. No doubt it'll be a humdinger to read though. :watch: ;)
     
  8. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2002
    Messages:
    20,569
    :watch:
     
  9. RD

    RD Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2004
    Messages:
    3,954
    I'm glad I wasn't the only one who thought this. It seemed suspicious to me that the injury was just diagnosed last Friday, which means it must have been bothering her well before the actual competition. If it happened DURING Worlds, not much you can do about that except try to go through it like she did. But from what I'm reading that's not the case.

    And Nagasu would not have given us any better shot at the 3 spots anyway, before people start to jump on me for that. But I think it's best, no matter how tough it is, to step aside if you're injured. And like the OP, I don't necessarily blame Flatt HERSELF for this- her team should have stepped in and not allowed her to go if she was injured enough to the point that it would significantly affect her performance.

    Oh well...
     
  10. Aussie Willy

    Aussie Willy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2005
    Messages:
    18,090
    I agree
     
  11. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2002
    Messages:
    20,569
    The principle is not about the 3 spots obviously.

    If you're injured, step aside and let your healthy teammate replace you.

    Not to mention that if I was a coach, I wouldn't let my skaters compete injured because their health is more important than short term results.
     
  12. aliona22

    aliona22 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2007
    Messages:
    210
    If USFS didn't get Mirai a "just in case" visa it's unlikely she could have procured one in time.
     
  13. Jenna

    Jenna Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2009
    Messages:
    7,139
    I'm sorry. I'm a little angry that Rachael skated at Worlds when she knew that she had an injury. I do not know whether it was her decision, Tom Z's, or her parents'..whatever. All I know is that it was a bad decision! She should have given someone else the chance to compete..whether it be Nagasu, Zawadzki, Gao..whoever was ready and willing to compete! She was clearly NOT in fighting form today. She didn't even attempt a 3Lz..

    Her scores were a gift in any case, and I will admit that. She certainly didn't outskate Helgesson or Meite (even though she had several errors). I like Rachael a lot and I admire her competitive fire and spirit and I admire her not withdrawing from the comp. But not only did she pretty much ruin the chances for 3 spots, she was in danger! She could have seriously hurt herself out there today. Again, I do not think it was her choice in the first place though..
     
  14. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2002
    Messages:
    20,569
    Must be the first time we agree on something, hehe. ;)
    :)
     
  15. Jenna

    Jenna Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2009
    Messages:
    7,139
    :lol: I believe it is!
     
  16. rfisher

    rfisher Satisfied skating fan

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2005
    Messages:
    41,013
    Ummm...timing is a real consideration here. It's not as if Mirai could have obtained a visa and jumped on a plane from California to Russia overnight. If this happened Friday, there was no way she could have replaced Rachel. If Rachel withdrew, we'd have had only one skater. Unless there's a physician's report that states otherwise,meaning this occurred over a week ago, Rachel was pretty gutsy to skate and try to get that 3rd spot. She knew exactly what was at stake.
     
  17. ProgramerUSFS

    ProgramerUSFS New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2010
    Messages:
    154
    I am sure the competitor in her wanted to skate, but the real issue is with the coach who must have known and pushed for this. If I was at USFSA I would push for a fine of the coach and a return of the monies paid this year. These coaches have to protect our kids, not use them for their own gain.
     
  18. Jenna

    Jenna Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2009
    Messages:
    7,139
    Rachael was gutsy and I deeply admire that. But honestly, if she was injured she didn't have to be a trooper and force herself to go. If she alerted USFS in a timely manner, who knows what they could have pulled out of their ass to get another skater there? By the time she was in Moscow, it was too late It seems like the injury was aggravated after the SP. Practice reports from before the FS indicated that she was not doing well..obviously by that time it is too late.

    I know she was just trying to do the "right" thing, but it ended up hurting her in the end. She looked to be in pain, exhausted, upset, and embarrassed and I truly feel bad for her. As I said before, I do NOT think it's a coincidence that another one of Tom Z's students, Joshua Farris, went through a very similar experience this year at US Nationals...
     
  19. rfisher

    rfisher Satisfied skating fan

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2005
    Messages:
    41,013
    And you know he pushed her? You know it was his decision? You know the extent of the injury?
     
  20. rfisher

    rfisher Satisfied skating fan

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2005
    Messages:
    41,013
    If the injury was indeed aggravated after the SP, there is nothing the USFSA could have done to get another skater there. I think it likely she thought she could manage just like Michelle thought she could do it in Torino. Sometimes that works and sometimes it doesn't. Only the person on the ice knows.
     
  21. Jenna

    Jenna Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2009
    Messages:
    7,139
    Of course I do not KNOW for sure..but one has to admit the two situations are awfully coincidental. Let's get real here though, Rachael has had a nagging injury ALL season. It's been hot and cold the whole time and it was hot this week. The bottom line is, she knew she was in trouble before she even left for the event and she pushed herself to go. In pressure situations, these injuries tend to flare up and that's just what happened. I guess I just wish Rachael & Co. could have thought about her history this year (e.g. GPF) and what kind of consequences traveling so far away for such a high pressure situation could have had.
     
  22. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2002
    Messages:
    20,569
    rfisher - You're right about the timing and I am making an assumption she knew very well about the injury beforehand.

    Oh well if it was her last Worlds, I can excuse her but only under the condition she never competes again. :p
     
  23. PDilemma

    PDilemma Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2008
    Messages:
    4,835
    How would the U.S.'s spots for next year have been determined if she had withdrawn after the SP?
     
  24. Jenna

    Jenna Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2009
    Messages:
    7,139
    Alissa would have to be top 8 for 2 spots, or in the top 2 for 3 spots, I believe. Obviously, 2 spots was very doable. Would it have added pressure? Possibly. I'm not happy Rachael came to the comp., but I'm happy that once she was there, she stuck it out. WD-ing while there would have been the worst possible situation.
     
  25. dupagegal

    dupagegal New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2007
    Messages:
    170
    If TZ ignored a serious injury and kept the facts from USFSA what can USFSA do? Is there any sanctions that can be enforced? As political as this would be we may never know.
     
  26. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2002
    Messages:
    20,569
    Top 10 for 2 spots and top 2 for 3 spots for a single skater.
     
  27. Jenna

    Jenna Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2009
    Messages:
    7,139
    Phil Hersh contacted one of USFSA's head honchos, David Raith, who said he was unaware there was any injury to Flatt. He also told Hersh he would text Rachael & Co. "immediately" to find out what was going on. I'm not really sure what could be done since a lot of the details are unknown/concealed.
     
  28. Jenna

    Jenna Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2009
    Messages:
    7,139
    Wouldn't it be top 8 though since Rachael would just be given 20 pts. for withdrawing? Or would they ignore her completely and just count Czisny's performances?
     
  29. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2002
    Messages:
    20,569
    I don't think a skater are given points for withdrawing, as they don't have a result at that competition, it's simply treated as if they were never there. I might be wrong though.
     
  30. Jenna

    Jenna Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2009
    Messages:
    7,139
    Yeah. Idk for sure either..it's an interesting question.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.