Fixing the Canadian Ladies Program

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by algonquin, Feb 11, 2012.

  1. Habs

    Habs Well-Known Member

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  2. haribobo

    haribobo Well-Known Member

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    I don't really buy this - why would that only happen in ladies and not in other disciplines? And why would a skater hold themselves back from doing better if they could? Najarro is just wildly consistent, Charbonneau is really tall now, Samson and Phaneuf had their injuries causing retirement, Szmiett looked promising for a while and totally fizzled out...it happens. I think its just a lot of bad luck, maybe some inferior coaching, inferior talent, or a mixture of both. And not enough spreading the wealth with assignments as well. There's some good talent coming up with Daleman, Seguin, and Chartrand, and I've seen potential in a few of the others also, but we'll see what happens. I'm glad there's finally some turnaround happening- there was a pretty talented skater for a few years named Dallas Daniel who could've really gone somewhere but she always seemed to finish just 1 spot too low at Nationals, and the skaters who finished just above her and got assigned to stuff didn't end up doing well at all (thinking Desanctis, Najarro, Grenier, Samson, Duhamel did ok but then went into pairs, etc) - then she retired, what a shame. Talent like that should have been nurtured somehow a little more- who would it have killed to send her to Nebelhorn? Anyway, 3rd place at Nationals should really be up for grabs this year and it will be a great opportunity for whoever gets the 3rd spot to 4CC.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2012
  3. Spazactaz

    Spazactaz New Member

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    ^Dallas didn't retire... she was out due to injury. I'm pretty sure she'll be competing at Sectionals this weekend. She competed a few weeks ago but didn't do very well... no triples or anything. Hoping she can qualify for the Challenge though!
     
  4. MysticHaze

    MysticHaze Member

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    After searching the twitterverse it seems as though Alexe Gilles has advanced to the Skate Canada Challenge next month! She was in 2nd after the short but cant find the final results.
     
  5. danafan

    danafan Canadian ladies über

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    The full results never got updated but here's the full protocol:

    http://www.skatecanada-centralontario.com//Irma/Sectionals 2013/swde.pdf

    Giouzelin Mutlu was the story here, attempting six triples in her free skate. I hope she makes nationals and the JGP next year.

    ETA she wants to skate pairs:

    http://icepartnersearch.com/showbio.php?i=4043
     
  6. mag

    mag Well-Known Member

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    Just a little extra info ... Eri Nishimura (1st after the short) and Kelsey McNell (4th after the short) are both former Jr. National Champions.
     
  7. chantilly

    chantilly Active Member

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    Perhaps I was a little unfair to Joannie's coach. She did help her rework her jumps to skate them and do them cleanly after her initial issues early in her career. But after that she was skating better but still not as well as she could. The Olympic year was probably her best year but even some argued she didn't deserve the bronze. I disagree. I thought her program was better and I am pretty sure Zhang UR some jumps. However, I still think even Joannie could have given more. And I am not sure why she had consistent problems going completely clean in her programs or landing a triple triple. But I find that there has always been a psychological issue with ladies skating in Canada. As well as confidence and attack. I attribute that a lot to the coaches and probably the CFSA
     
  8. The Accordion

    The Accordion Well-Known Member

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    As I was falling asleep last night I was thinking about this thread and how - for the first time in a while we might have to think about fixing Men's skating in Canada.

    There is Patrick Chan - and then IMO a big step down. Kevin Reynolds showed promise - but whether it is his body / his head / his coach - he can't seem to make a permanent step up. I do admire that he keeps going for the quads - but they don't seem to be improving too much. He has worked on his presentation - but it is still far below the top men in the world.

    There have been other promising skaters along the way - Jeremy Ten, Elladj Balde, Liam Firus, Andrei Rogozine etc. but no one who seems ready to step into the top group in the world.

    Perhaps it is just that we have been spoiled in my lifetime of skating - with kind of skating version of lighting the next cigarette with the previous one
    Toller Cranston - Brian Pockar - Brian Orser - Kurt Browning - Elvis Stojko - (a bit of a blip but still such potential and always the hopeless hopers with Sandhu) - Jeff Buttle - Patrick Chan.

    But who next?
     
  9. PeterG

    PeterG Argle-Bargle-ist

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    I am pretty busy these days. But I will think about it and get back to you.
     
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  10. manhn

    manhn Well-Known Member

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    For one, I don't think Chan's retirement after 2014 is as certain as it is for V&M. Chan can still fill that void in the same way Stojko did during the 98-02 era.

    And while it's all still potential, hopefully at least one of Firus, Rogozine, Nguyen, and Mitchell can really step up.
     
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  11. alilou

    alilou Crazy Stalker Lady

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    Nam Nguyen has a new coach! :respec: I believe! Now that there's a very good chance his potential will emerge. He went to Orser didn't he?
     
  12. The Accordion

    The Accordion Well-Known Member

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    Yes he did! Good thinking! (knock wood)
     
  13. The Accordion

    The Accordion Well-Known Member

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    I hear Joanne McLeod has an opening now that Nguyen is gone~! Have your people contact her people! :)
     
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  14. PeterG

    PeterG Argle-Bargle-ist

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    Manhn. If you don't mind stepping outside for a moment. Jeremy Ten and I would like to have a word with you.
     
  15. clarie

    clarie Well-Known Member

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    Too bad we can't have more Kaetlyns. That girl just sparkles on the ice. Even if she wasn't Canadian, I would still have a new fav in her. I hope she never loses that as time goes on and she enters the pressure cooker. I wish I could see more Canadian women skate with that kind of joy and abandon and connect with the audience instead of the serious puke faces we normally see. Wishful thinking for Nats. :).
     
  16. spikydurian

    spikydurian Well-Known Member

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    Accordion, you are a die-hard FSU-er! :lol:
    Okay, I admit this did cross my mind too though not when I was about to fall asleep. :D It does look bleak unless the current successors take a great leap forward, IMO. :(

    You do think? :p

    I am impressed with his 'new image'. No more gloves and colourful costumes. He has a more sophisticated and elegant skating style now. Hope this kid keeps growing.
     
  17. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to GP & U.S. Sectionals!

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    The official final results are published online at last: http://www.skatecanada-centralontario.com//Irma/Sectionals 2013/swrs.pdf

    So the top 4 COS Senior Women advancing to Challenge are:
    Eri Nishimura 123.92
    Giouzelin Mutlu 119.70
    Alexe Gilles 118.77 (coached by Christy Krall in Colorado Springs according to her recent tweet)
    Olivia Houston 110.36
    Note: Gabrielle Daleman WD but also advanced to Challenge for being a JGP competitor.
    ---
    Next 3 COS Women:
    Rachel Greben 108.79
    Michelle Long 108.65
    Christina Yan 108.43

    Guest Skaters at COS:
    Kelsey McNeil (NB) 121.34, 2nd overall
    Gabrielle Anne Cormier (NB) 113.52, 5th
    Kate Charbonneau (MB) 107.34, 10th

    ETA links:

    Here's the Canadian Sectionals results/discussion thread in Kiss and Cry: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?85059-2013-Skate-Canada-Sectionals-Oct-26-Nov-11-2012

    Explanation of Canadian qualifying system for Nationals:
    http://www.skatecanada.ca/Development/TalentIdentification/tabid/231/language/en-US/Default.aspx

    Do we know if current National Team members Alexandra Najarro and Adriana DeSanctis could be receiving a medical bye to Challenge after their withdrawal from COS?
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2012
  18. googooeyes

    googooeyes Member

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  19. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    Too greedy. :p

    Any other nation would have killed for a champion streak like that. Or, most nations would have killed for having just one of the above champions.
     
  20. googooeyes

    googooeyes Member

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    Don't forget Donald Jackson and Donald McPherson who led the way for the others
     
  21. chantilly

    chantilly Active Member

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    I think Joanne Macleod is a crappy coach. Sorry all of her male skaters have been head cases. And she is the common denominator. Kevin shows promise but I think he should get far away from her and got to Brian Orser or someone else. Javier has improved so much with him. And so have many other of Brian's skaters. But agree, men's skating in Canada behind Patrick seems a bit dire.
     
  22. Seerek

    Seerek Well-Known Member

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    I think part of it is mental/psychological, but I think part of the problem is also the technique of Joanne's students breaking down in competition situations (i.e. not-so-great technique shows itself in pressure situations)

    As for the ladies, has Canada ever had really had periods of sustained depth? In the last 40 years, I believe that Canada placed 2 in the top 10 at Worlds only 7 times (the last being 1994).
     
  23. chantilly

    chantilly Active Member

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    Yup. I think you are exactly right here.
     
  24. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

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    From the boys, I think that Mitchell and Sadovsky have the most potential. Rogozine too.
     
  25. essence_of_soy

    essence_of_soy Well-Known Member

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    I remember seeing the Canadian Championships live in 1994, and the top four women were fantastic. Josee Chouinard, Karen Preston, Susan Humphreys, and a girl I had never seen but heard a great deal about, Tanya Bingert had all of the big jumps and wonderful, mature presentation. it was a better skated event than US Nationals which I had seen in person the week before.

    Unfortunately, they just did have the mental game to put it together on the competitive stage when it was absolutely needed.

    Kay Thomson was a skater who should have done so much better at the world level. Her short program at the 1983 Canadians was years before its time.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixXuiiOZ3Nc
     
  26. googooeyes

    googooeyes Member

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    So true! She originated that upright spin with the foot crossed behind. It is still called a Thomson Spin in Canada (at least by us old folks)
     
  27. Rock2

    Rock2 Well-Known Member

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    Thomson's spins were utterly sick. Check out her longs. Interestingly the only consistent triple she had was the lutz. She also did the flip but it was often underrotated. She didn't do any other triples. Weird.

    I find that skating in the 80s yeah had cheesy music but also seemed to have much more abandon than any other decade. You can youtube gobs of performances like this from all countries. Orser's performances in 83 and 84 were just insane, too. Went hard after everything.
     
  28. Rock2

    Rock2 Well-Known Member

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    Very sad that Bingert never made it to world's. Huge lutz and 3 other triples as well as an outstanding layback but was often 3rd.
    1994 nationals were incredible in all disciplines. Lots of drama everywhere. 16,000 seats were packed in Edmonton for pretty much the whole thing. Quite the heyday....
     
  29. danafan

    danafan Canadian ladies über

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    So the top three at Canadians this year all had triple triple in the short, the bronze medallist landed seven triples, and our champion is a senior Grand Prix winner and the silver medalist isn't senior age eligible yet. Does our program still need fixing?

    ;)
     
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  30. all_empty

    all_empty Well-Known Member

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    The arch in her layback is amazing and I've never seen a back layback as good as hers. Love the disco Firebird ... A true staple of the '80s.