Fixing the Canadian Ladies Program

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by algonquin, Feb 11, 2012.

  1. crawall

    crawall New Member

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    I really am shocked and disappointed. So obviously i wanted Kate Charbonneau;) to get the spot, even though DeSanctis finished ahead at Canadians. Kate meets the citeria, based on Skate Detroit results. SO THEY GIVE IT AWAY? Our Jr's are doing well, but is this what they have to look forward too? And are we putting all of our eggs it Katelyn Osmond'ss young basket? No other opportunities to achieve the min. standards for Worlds? What the heck are they doing?
  2. chantilly

    chantilly Active Member

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    Not many. And almost all train with Orser who IMO is the only effective coach for the ladies. I would have even encouraged Joannie to have left her coach years ago. Joannie needed a triple triple and wasn't getting it. You can blame Joannie sure but I just think that there is a huge coaching problem with women in Canada. I think a lot of it is psychological, but I think they also wait way to late to work on difficult jumps. They aren't pushed enough IMO. But that may have to do with money and sponsorship. Regardless the women have been in serious trouble for over twenty years when the other three disciplines have done quite well.
  3. danafan

    danafan Canadian ladies über

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    I'm very disappointed in the lack of ladies assignments.

    I mean Desanctis skated reasonably well at Skate Canada last year and didn't finish last in either segment. I don't know what is the point of being a carded national team member getting Sport Canada funding and not being sent to actually compete anywhere.

    I know it's fun to make fun of the Canadian ladies skaters, but I don't think this is the way to build your program.
  4. hohoho

    hohoho Member

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    I think SC has definitely shown that they are looking past this Olympic cycle and are concentrating on the skaters of Osmond's age (16) and under. They had no choice giving Lacoste SCI and a Senior B. Perhaps they should have skated Chartrand senior this year and allowed for further development in Junior with Jurome, Dunley, or someone else. Just really hate the idea of throwing away precious spots when they are difficult to get.
  5. Jammers

    Jammers Well-Known Member

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    Not a smart move by SC. These girls can't get better without competition. Yes they may not finish near the top but they get experience which is much needed.
  6. Erin

    Erin Well-Known Member

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    Not to mention that they just made it harder for Lacoste & Osmond to get ISU World Standing points, which are only awarded to the top 8. If there was a third Canadian lady, even if the Canadian ladies went 8-9-10, someone would have gotten World standing points.
  7. danafan

    danafan Canadian ladies über

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    Lacoste is a very solid third at the Salt Lake City competition after the short, scoring over 59. Please I hope she builds on this!

    Also Daleman was impressive at the JGP in Austria. But she repeated three triples in the free skate...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQe6Aw0rbHA&feature=youtube_gdata_player

    Any predictions for nationals? I think Lacoste, Osmond and Daleman make a great top three, but who knows how Phaneuf will be.
  8. euterpe

    euterpe Well-Known Member

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    Lacoste landed only one combination in the SLC FS. She looked good to the eye, but left a lot of points on the table.

    After all her years of competition, I doubt she will ever be a consistent skater.
  9. hohoho

    hohoho Member

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    Lacoste had a good short program. Still needs the 3-3 combo though to compete with the big scores. In her long program she made mistakes and ultimately scored lower than 2012 nationals. Just seemed like alot of loops, triple and double. Interesting to see Lacoste and Osmond go head to head at Skate Canada.

    My predictions now for nationals, Osmond, Lacoste, Adrianna.

    SC has some good young ladies (Seguin, Daleman, Seguin, etc) that have realised the need for the triples and 3-3 combos. Seems like Osmond may have lit a fire under more girls by doing so well at her first Senior Nationals.

    Will be interesting Nationals. Osmond, if she does her stuff, will beat Lacoste. Phaneuf is a big question mark and may be done according to a news atricle. Basically the remaining placings are wide open.
  10. Rafter

    Rafter Well-Known Member

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    One of Lacoste's biggest problems is doubling jumps. And obviously not understanding CoP enough to add in another combo for more points.

    I'm not as outraged as some on here about SC not sending another girl to SLC or using the SC spot. To me, there is no one worthy of these spots. AKAIR, DeSanctis bombed last year at SC and finished last. Kate Charbonneau has never really proven herself and in the one video I saw of her this summer, she looked out of shape physically.

    I was looking at the National team pics and DeSanctis is such a pretty girl. It's too bad she always looks so miserable and unexpressive on the ice.
  11. Habs

    Habs Well-Known Member

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    She's pretty and is lovely in person. I think she concentrates so hard that she ends up looking miserable when she probably doesn't realize it.
    At the last two Canadian championships, MamaHabs and I ended up sitting with her parents and they're a HOOT. Her dad especially is terrific.
  12. googooeyes

    googooeyes Member

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    I think that Lacoste/Phaneuf have had good personal experiences in skating for themselves. They were good enough to reach the top of ladies skating in Canada. But they have reached their potential and that's all there is. How long is Skate Canada going to stick with them on the thinking that well, they only need one more triple, or one combo, or better artistry..... They are not going to suddenly become top world skaters. The have proved this over and over and over and over and over again.
    They have been occupyiing the top qualifying Canadian spots for international competition for some time now and blocking out younger girls with higher potential from getting international experience. Those younger girls need to get out there and be seen, get used to pressure, get their nerves under control etc. Canada won't get any higher with what they have now, they have to build for the future.
    Maybe Phaneuf woulf have had a better career if she had been allowed to go to worlds when she won Canadians the first time as a young teenager. Maybe she would be able to handle it now.
    It's nice to see that Canada finally has some good young girls coming up : Osmond, Daleman, Seguin Chartrand.
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  13. danafan

    danafan Canadian ladies über

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    I guess whether she bombed is a matter of interpretation, but she did not finish last in either segment. She finished 9th in the short (ahead of Hecken) where she skated respectably,and 9th overall (ahead of Flatt). Her score of 129.48 was 66th on the season's best list.

    Whether or not someone is worthy to compete internationally is something to be debated. I just find it amusing that an athlete like DeSanctis is receiving $10, 800 in funding from Sport Canada this year (see http://www.pch.gc.ca/pgm/sc/pgm/APAA-eng.pdf and search for figure skating). So she's worthy of getting that much money to support her training yet she is not deemed worthy enough to compete internationally for her country?

    Interestingly Najarro is not appearing on the carded athlete list on the link I posted above. Is that an oversight or if she not on the national team?
  14. love_skate2011

    love_skate2011 Well-Known Member

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    the Phanuef vs Lacoste is so old and wont do anything
    they need the younger ones to fight it out and push themselves
  15. Sylvia

    Sylvia Whee, summer club comps!

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    Najarro currently is listed on the 2012-13 National Team on the Skate Canada website, but the following hearsay info was posted in August:
    Article on Novice champion Madelyn Dunley from early September 2012: http://www.goldenskate.com/2012/09/dunley-looking-to-bloom-with-character-driven-programs/

    Link to a post in GSD today that may be of interest: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/showthread.php?p=3687769#post3687769

    ETA JGP Ladies standings after first 3 events:
    15 Gabrielle DALEMAN CAN 5 points 6th in Linz AUT (139.77 total, 91.22 FS, 48.55 SP); assigned to #7 GER
    19 Alaine CHARTRAND CAN 4 points 7th in Lake Placid (133.43 total, 90.01 FS, 43.42 SP); assigned to #6 CRO
    20 Julianne SEGUIN CAN 4 points 7th in Courchevel FRA (122.17 total, 75.12 FS, 47.05 SP); assigned to #5 SLO
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2012
  16. mag

    mag Well-Known Member

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    Interesting list, but I'm wondering why the second place Jr dance team is getting funding but not the first place one - or am I just not seeing them?
  17. hohoho

    hohoho Member

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    Hopefully Osmond can continue with her successes last year next week at Nebelhorn. She will get to go against Shelepen who got the TBA for Skate Canada.

    In eraly competitions this year she has shown not holding back scoring around 150 at Wildrose with mistakes. Rumour has it that she was much imporved at the High Performance Camp.
  18. sk8ingcoach

    sk8ingcoach Active Member

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    I was recently in Quebec and watched a few training sessions with Lacoste. I really dont know why she is always so bad in competition because she does some really good stuff in practice. She is working on 3Lz+3Lo which she is capable of landing clean ( most are downgraded or under-rotated) and her short program is looking really good. At the moment i still believe she is canadas best hope to get atleast 2 ladies spots for olympics.
  19. hohoho

    hohoho Member

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    Everything changes for alot of skaters when the bright lights are on and the music is played. It is quite ok to be able to do certain elements while on practice ice, but when you try to do it to choroegraphy and music things change. Some skaters don't even practice the jumps with the connecting footwork that is in their programs. To be good you have to do it this way. Great on Amelie to be able to do it in practice. Why didn't she try it in SLC?
  20. mag

    mag Well-Known Member

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    I saw Amelie land a number of 3 loop/3 loop during practices when Nationals were in Victoria a couple of years ago. I suspect she lands LOTS of stuff in practice, and she is also very fast. Unfortunately she has been unable to it when it counts. It must be extremely frustrating for her!
  21. alilou

    alilou Crazy Stalker Lady

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    And if she hasn't learnt to compete by now, it's unlikely she ever will. Too bad. She's not a great skater, but she is a good one. If she was also a good competitor she'd probably do quite well.
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  22. bek

    bek Guest

    I'm sorry but I don't think is right to call a coach who trained a skater to the World and Olympic podium as "uneffective" Yes maybe Joannie needed a harder 3/3 she kind of came up in a different time though and was one of the few if only top skaters who had all of her triples. If she had stuck around she could have been a world champ. Orser wasn't even a coach for most of Rochette's career and by the time he stared he was already coaching her competitor.
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  23. hohoho

    hohoho Member

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    Canadian ladies have not had to compete at a high level in the past years because they did not have too. I think they only looked inside Canada and practiced/skated based on what they needed to excel in Canada. Hopefully the next group do not look at Phaneuf/Lacoste as the ones to beat. Hopefully they look at the top 5-10 in the world to help with their desire to succeed.
    algonquin and (deleted member) like this.
  24. Seerek

    Seerek Well-Known Member

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    Exactly - Amelie has enough technical content in her programs that if she had even just rotated everything planned with even minor -GOEs, she would finished somewhere like 7th or 8th at 2012 or even 2011 Worlds.

    The problem is the kind of mistakes she tends to make are popping/doubling jump elements.
  25. sk8ingcoach

    sk8ingcoach Active Member

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    Well i think she had made a promising start of the season after SLC. Hopefully she can improve on her performance and skate well at Skate Canada
  26. danafan

    danafan Canadian ladies über

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  27. hohoho

    hohoho Member

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    Good job. Haven't seen the protocols, but looks like the 3T and 3F will be downgraded.
  28. danafan

    danafan Canadian ladies über

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    The 3T was < and the 3F was <<
  29. Habs

    Habs Well-Known Member

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    Bumping this up with the news that Myriane Samson announced her retirement this morning. Not at all surprised. I wish her well in her post-skating life.
  30. l'etoile

    l'etoile New Member

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    Oh, what a sad news:( Wish her the best of luck in her future.
  31. Habs

    Habs Well-Known Member

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  32. haribobo

    haribobo Well-Known Member

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    I don't really buy this - why would that only happen in ladies and not in other disciplines? And why would a skater hold themselves back from doing better if they could? Najarro is just wildly consistent, Charbonneau is really tall now, Samson and Phaneuf had their injuries causing retirement, Szmiett looked promising for a while and totally fizzled out...it happens. I think its just a lot of bad luck, maybe some inferior coaching, inferior talent, or a mixture of both. And not enough spreading the wealth with assignments as well. There's some good talent coming up with Daleman, Seguin, and Chartrand, and I've seen potential in a few of the others also, but we'll see what happens. I'm glad there's finally some turnaround happening- there was a pretty talented skater for a few years named Dallas Daniel who could've really gone somewhere but she always seemed to finish just 1 spot too low at Nationals, and the skaters who finished just above her and got assigned to stuff didn't end up doing well at all (thinking Desanctis, Najarro, Grenier, Samson, Duhamel did ok but then went into pairs, etc) - then she retired, what a shame. Talent like that should have been nurtured somehow a little more- who would it have killed to send her to Nebelhorn? Anyway, 3rd place at Nationals should really be up for grabs this year and it will be a great opportunity for whoever gets the 3rd spot to 4CC.
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2012
  33. Spazactaz

    Spazactaz New Member

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    ^Dallas didn't retire... she was out due to injury. I'm pretty sure she'll be competing at Sectionals this weekend. She competed a few weeks ago but didn't do very well... no triples or anything. Hoping she can qualify for the Challenge though!
  34. MysticHaze

    MysticHaze Member

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    After searching the twitterverse it seems as though Alexe Gilles has advanced to the Skate Canada Challenge next month! She was in 2nd after the short but cant find the final results.
  35. danafan

    danafan Canadian ladies über

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    The full results never got updated but here's the full protocol:

    http://www.skatecanada-centralontario.com//Irma/Sectionals 2013/swde.pdf

    Giouzelin Mutlu was the story here, attempting six triples in her free skate. I hope she makes nationals and the JGP next year.

    ETA she wants to skate pairs:

    http://icepartnersearch.com/showbio.php?i=4043
  36. mag

    mag Well-Known Member

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    Just a little extra info ... Eri Nishimura (1st after the short) and Kelsey McNell (4th after the short) are both former Jr. National Champions.
  37. chantilly

    chantilly Active Member

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    Perhaps I was a little unfair to Joannie's coach. She did help her rework her jumps to skate them and do them cleanly after her initial issues early in her career. But after that she was skating better but still not as well as she could. The Olympic year was probably her best year but even some argued she didn't deserve the bronze. I disagree. I thought her program was better and I am pretty sure Zhang UR some jumps. However, I still think even Joannie could have given more. And I am not sure why she had consistent problems going completely clean in her programs or landing a triple triple. But I find that there has always been a psychological issue with ladies skating in Canada. As well as confidence and attack. I attribute that a lot to the coaches and probably the CFSA
  38. The Accordion

    The Accordion Well-Known Member

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    As I was falling asleep last night I was thinking about this thread and how - for the first time in a while we might have to think about fixing Men's skating in Canada.

    There is Patrick Chan - and then IMO a big step down. Kevin Reynolds showed promise - but whether it is his body / his head / his coach - he can't seem to make a permanent step up. I do admire that he keeps going for the quads - but they don't seem to be improving too much. He has worked on his presentation - but it is still far below the top men in the world.

    There have been other promising skaters along the way - Jeremy Ten, Elladj Balde, Liam Firus, Andrei Rogozine etc. but no one who seems ready to step into the top group in the world.

    Perhaps it is just that we have been spoiled in my lifetime of skating - with kind of skating version of lighting the next cigarette with the previous one
    Toller Cranston - Brian Pockar - Brian Orser - Kurt Browning - Elvis Stojko - (a bit of a blip but still such potential and always the hopeless hopers with Sandhu) - Jeff Buttle - Patrick Chan.

    But who next?
  39. PeterG

    PeterG Argle-Bargle-ist

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    I am pretty busy these days. But I will think about it and get back to you.
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  40. manhn

    manhn Well-Known Member

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    For one, I don't think Chan's retirement after 2014 is as certain as it is for V&M. Chan can still fill that void in the same way Stojko did during the 98-02 era.

    And while it's all still potential, hopefully at least one of Firus, Rogozine, Nguyen, and Mitchell can really step up.
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