Fixing the Canadian Ladies Program

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by algonquin, Feb 11, 2012.

  1. algonquin

    algonquin Well-Known Member

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    Well, this must get better next year or there will only be one spot for 2012.
     
  2. professordeb

    professordeb Well-Known Member

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    I think we are just going to have to resign ourselves to having one woman for 2012-2013. I can't see anyone stepping up to the plate and delivering when it's needed.

    That said, I feel bad for Amelie and I still think she had an awful skate -- at least compared to how I've seen her skate at other comps.
     
  3. jlai

    jlai Title-less

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    I don't follow Canadian ladies much...just out of curiosity, why don't more top Canadian girls have the harder jumps? Is it training them late, not competing enough with those jumps or something else?
     
  4. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

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    I'm bumping this thread up because I don't think it's worth starting a new/separate thread in Kiss and Cry for this very early season competition.

    The 2012 Ursula Lehming Scarboro Skate competition in Scarborough, ON was held this past weekend (April 27-29) -- top 2 in the Senior Ladies free skate:
    1 Alaine Chartrand Nepean SC 90.05
    2 Gabrielle Daleman Hilltop SC 77.92
    FS protocols: http://sfsc.on.ca/ScarboroSkate/2012PDF/swfde.pdf
     
  5. clarie

    clarie Well-Known Member

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    I honestly think it's a hopeless situation, being such a small country population-wise with no-one to carry the banner so to speak. We can't expect Joannie to rescue Canadian ladies....she's paid her dues.
     
  6. Jammers

    Jammers Well-Known Member

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    Small country population-wise doesn't seem to ever hurt the Canadian men. And it doesn't seem like it's a lack of girls getting into skating that is the problem either.
     
  7. Sylvia

    Sylvia On to Nationals!

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    Skate Canada press release titled "Up-and-comers set to attend Skate Canada National Development Camp" in Toronto, May 4-6, 2012: http://www.skatecanada.ca/AboutUs/NewsDetails/tabid/2157/sni[2797]/1707/language/en-US/Default.aspx

    15 of the 24 invited are women:
    Larkyn Austman, 14, Coquitlam, B.C. [N2]
    Alaine Chartrand, 16, Prescott, Ont. [S9]
    Roxanne Cournoyer, 14, Sorel-Tracy, Que. [J4]
    Gabrielle Daleman, 14, Newmarket, Ont. [J1]
    Madelyn Dunley, 15, Milton, Ont. [N1]
    Alexandra Gagnon, 18, Chicoutimi, Que. [S10]
    Zoe Gong, 14, Ottawa, Ont. [N7]
    Britanny Guiseppe Clarke, 13, St-Jean-sur-Richelieu, Que. [N11]
    Shelby Hall, 14, Frobisher, Sask. [N12]
    Jayda Jurome, 14, Kelowna, B.C. [N-wd; won Challenge]
    Sandrine Martin, 14, Montreal, Que. [N5]
    Lisa Nasu-Yu, 15, Ottawa, Ont. [N9]
    Kaetlyn Osmond, 16, Marystown, Nfld. [S3]
    Haley Sales, 15, Kelowna, B.C. [N3]
    Julianne Séguin, 15, Longueuil, Que. [J3]
     
  8. Rock2

    Rock2 Well-Known Member

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    Nice jump list from Chartrand and wow, Daleman is rotating a 3F and 3L, two jumps she didn't have this year. I dunno...watching Daleman, I really think she's going to go somewhere. She has skating skills, musicality and athleticism. I can't say she'll be the greatest, but I really believe she'll be a legitimate factor on the Canadian senior scene when all is said and done.

    Osmond will be the really interesting story to watch. If you only consider what's best for her, I'd give her two JGPs and another JW's to get some points and ready her for seniors. The problem is she's arguably ready now, and more importantly Lacoste and Phaneuf can no longer be Plan B's for each other. I think if we see Osmond in seniors this year that will be a signal that SC is readying itself to chack Amelie and Cynthia as soon as they can if they both maintain their current dreadful standard.
     
  9. spikydurian

    spikydurian Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Sylvia. Interesting vid and question. Canada has a great tradition for skating and I think the question is how to motivate these young talented kids to figure skating to elite levels? Certainly, I think figure skating IS an expensive and lonely sport unlike team sports like hockey and soccer. You can find a highly prodigious kid but without the 'resources' (ie. the cutting and polishing) there is no way this kid will become a sparkling diamond.
     
  10. danafan

    danafan Canadian ladies über

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    Well Osmond got Skate Canada along with Lacoste, third spot TBA. No non host picks for the Canadian ladies on the grand prix - this must be a first.
    Osmond moving up is a good choice IMO. I hope they have a skate off for the third spot.
     
  11. Erin

    Erin Well-Known Member

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    I still have mixed feelings - with only one GP spot at a tough event, Osmond is not going to get very much in terms of ISU points on the GP. Skate Canada better send her to some Senior B events so she can rack up some points. Otherwise she is going to be buried in the World rankings for a while. That said, I think that she's the best skater we've got, so it's good to get her some senior experience. Plus it opens up more spots on the JGP for skaters like Daleman, Chartrand, Seguin, etc.

    I was rewatching Jr. Worlds the other day and as I watched Osmond, I really wished there was some way SC could have put her on the World team. Her score from Jr. Worlds, unadjusted, would have put her 13th at Worlds. If you take into account that senior programs have the choreographed spiral sequence as an additional element and add that to her score, it puts her around 11th. If she did a triple flip (her best jump) in the short instead of a double lutz, that puts her score in 8th, ahead of Marchei. I realize that you can't compare across competitions and her PCS score might have dropped, as it's sometimes judged more generously in juniors than seniors, but her overall score without accounting for the extra element or the flip in the short was still 8 points higher than Lacoste. Plus we would have been getting a talented young skater some experience.

    I think it would have been difficult to put Osmond on the World team unless SC had said up-front that they were going to wait until Jr. Worlds. And if she's the real deal, she'll show it this coming season. I really hope that the consistency she magically found last season continues this coming year.
     
  12. Marco

    Marco Missing Ziggy

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    I am glad they are giving Phaneuf her much needed ass kick by not immediately giving her Skate Canada.

    Let's face it - at this stage, Osmond is the best bet by Canada for a top 10 finish at Sochi, barring a Rochette comeback.
     
  13. Rafter

    Rafter Well-Known Member

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  14. Habs

    Habs Well-Known Member

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  15. danafan

    danafan Canadian ladies über

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    Gabrielle Daleman skates with a lot of attack too. I think our juniors will do well on the JGP this year. Séguin got off to a great start.
     
  16. danafan

    danafan Canadian ladies über

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  17. algonquin

    algonquin Well-Known Member

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    Indeed, thanks for posting.
     
  18. Erin

    Erin Well-Known Member

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    I agree - glad to see her fight to get in the double toe after struggling with the lutz. Great to see both Canadian ladies out on the JGP so far attempting both the triple lutz and triple flip in the short program...and doing reasonably well with them, too (i.e. not hail mary attempts). It will be interesting to see if Daleman goes for the flip in the short next week, too.

    It appears that Skate Canada is focusing on the new generation based on the way the senior assignments have gone, and with Osmond, Chartrand, Seguin, and Daleman, there's actually a decent starting point with the younger ladies. There were some other bright spots last season, particularly Jayda Jurome in novice at the Challenge, so hopefully that pool can expand.
     
  19. danafan

    danafan Canadian ladies über

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    Daleman was very successful with her triple flip in both programs at Thornhill.
     
    Erin and (deleted member) like this.
  20. triple_toe

    triple_toe Well-Known Member

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    Chartrand's JGP debut was much more impressive than Seguin's IMO. Good job. Chartrand needs to work on the flip though, it's really on the outside edge.
     
  21. hohoho

    hohoho Active Member

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    I actually found Chartrand better than Seguin. Not by much. Mostly in the spins. But good to see SC going with the younger skates and that these skaters are showing the "never give up and go for everything attitude". Overall good debuts by Seguin and Chartrand.

    Has Jurome recovered totally from her injury. She didn't seem to skate that well t BC Summerskate?
     
  22. shutterbug

    shutterbug Well-Known Member

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    In the SP she attempted a 3lutz-2toe combo and a 3flip and fell on both. Landed a nice 3lutz-2toe in the FP, but not much else. Looked to me like both programs were still quite new.
     
  23. danafan

    danafan Canadian ladies über

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  24. flowerpower

    flowerpower Well-Known Member

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    Good for her! Love to see the Canadian junior ladies going for it!
     
  25. Erin

    Erin Well-Known Member

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    :cheer2: Great skate for Chartrand! And she actually met the TES minimum for Worlds with that program - if she can clean up the SP at the next event, perhaps we will have someone other than Osmond who has met the criteria.

    Chartrand and Seguin have both met the minimum TES scores for Jr. Worlds in both programs and Chartrand also met the 4CC minimums.
     
  26. hohoho

    hohoho Active Member

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    Question is, will Chartrand get a second JGP to try and get the TES minimum? Even if she does get it, would you send her to Worlds over Osmond? Chartrand may get the TES score, but she is struggling with the PCS score.
     
  27. Erin

    Erin Well-Known Member

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    Chartrand has been assigned to Croatia, at least provisionally. I think that she'll probably keep the assignment. Most of the skaters on the sub list for Croatia are not doing both the triple lutz and triple flip, aside from Seguin (already has a second assignment to Slovenia) and Daleman (probably will get a second assignment to Germany if she does reasonably well in Austria). And if Skate Canada decides to pull the second assignment for someone to give one of the subs a chance, I think that Chartrand deserves a second assignment over Seguin - both had 7th place finishes, but Chartrand was in a tougher field and had a higher score.

    I'm not saying that Chartrand should be sent to Worlds over Osmond, it's way too early to be making those kind of predictions. But it would be nice to have more than one option - what if Osmond were injured, became inconsistent, etc, etc. The more skaters that meet the minimum, the better IMO.
     
  28. hohoho

    hohoho Active Member

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    Well SC in their wisdom have assigned Shelepen (Russia) to the TBA for SCI. What a slap in the face to Canadian Ladies Skaters. That is 4 spots not used for Canadian Senior skaters - SCI, Finlandia, Ondrej Nepela, and SLC. What a joke SC is becoming.
     
  29. chantilly

    chantilly Active Member

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    I think to fix it, they need to send them to train with coaches in US or Japan. There are at least five girls in each country who could beat any of our top two. But honestly we have never been great in the ladies since the early eighties. Even those with great potential were a disappointment. Joannie was the only bright light and she was very inconsistent. Her win at the Olympics was a bit controversial even. Although she did have more difficult transitions, choreography etc. and I believe her next rival was downgraded. I do deserve she should have won the bronze after all. But I can understand the confusion as to why she did. But I would need to watch it again side by side to really judge accurately.
     
  30. hohoho

    hohoho Active Member

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    Why send them to US and Japan when some of those skaters train or used to train in Canada.