Figure Skating Champions SURVIVOR: Pairs ROUND 7

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by allezfred, Jul 16, 2012.

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Who is the weakest link?

Poll closed Jul 18, 2012.
  1. Kazakova & Dmitriev

    45 vote(s)
    26.3%
  2. Berezhnaya & Sikharulidze

    2 vote(s)
    1.2%
  3. Shen & Zhao

    2 vote(s)
    1.2%
  4. Totmianina & Marinin

    27 vote(s)
    15.8%
  5. Pang & Tong

    90 vote(s)
    52.6%
  6. Savchenko & Szolkowy

    5 vote(s)
    2.9%
  1. allezfred

    allezfred Prick Admin Staff Member

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  2. miffy

    miffy Well-Known Member

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    My vote is for K/D... Mishkutenok/Dmitriev are one of my all time favourite pairs and K/D just didn't live up to that - IMO they were very good but just weren't really special.
     
  3. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

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    This combined with the fact that they have no world championship and I wasn't really inspired by any of their performances. I think it will be a fight between them and Pang and Tong. I think that Pan and Tong should stay because they had a longer career with more medals and have two WC and Olympic silver which should have been Gold considering how they were held down in the short compared to other teams.
     
  4. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    K&D's Olympic programs were brilliant. They don't have a world title, but they only went to Worlds twice! They had to WD in 1998 due to food poisoning, and he was 30 by then, so they retired. I don't consider them as having run away from competition like Kulik, but just the circumstances getting in the way of their ever winning Worlds. I think one OGM is worth more than the two post-Olympic World titles that P&T have (with the top skaters like S&Z and T&M not present).
     
  5. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    Pang and Tong are not the strongest team technically, but the reason I picked them is that I can't remember a single program they did. I know what some of them were, but both the skaters and the programs are just completely forgettable to me.
     
  6. Mafke

    Mafke New Member

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    K/D mostly because:
    - short career (even if it included ogm which I don't care about so much)
    - back outside death spiral.... less said the better

    Don't get me wrong, Dmitriev was absolutely one of the two or three greatest pair guys of all time but as a pair K/D never clicked for me like M/D (who I would have had winning in Lillehammer)
     
  7. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Pang & Tong. Weakest team both technically and artistically left.
     
  8. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

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    Oddly enough Dmitriev never won a Soviet/Russian Nationals with either partner. I also would have had them winning in Lillehammer.
     
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  9. TID

    TID New Member

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    TT/MM,the most boring team I've ever seen....uhh....
     
  10. shady82

    shady82 New Member

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    I have to pick K/D. I know there are reasons stated above against this, but I think of them as the pairs' version of Kulik.

    K/D really had only had 2 good major competitions - 1998 Olympics and 1996 Europeans. They were never favorites or a dominant team. During the Olympic season, they were 3rd in their country and could have easily missed making the Olympic team.

    Although not as strong as M/D or B/S, they were still a good team that capitalized at the right team. I do give them credit for skating very well at the Olympics.

    It was hard for me since Pang/Tong's 2 World Championship wins could be debated as well. Petrova/Tikhonov skated a clean but easy program in 2006, while Pang/Tong skated somewhat sloppily and with a fall. In 2010, Pang/Tong and S/S were pretty close IMO. Then again, P/T's 2010 Olympic performances would trump K/D's in 1998, winning both portions of the 1998 Olympics.
     
  11. blue_idealist

    blue_idealist Well-Known Member

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    I was going to go with Pang/Tong, but then I started re-watching some old programs. I saw the hot mess that was Kazakova/Dmitriev's 1996 Worlds LP, and the masterpiece that was Pang/Tong's 2004 Worlds LP. Furthermore, K/D don't have a world title and a lot of their moves were kind of copies of what Mishkutenok/Dmitriev did. Pang/Tong were also near the top for a lot longer, almost a decade now, as opposed to like two years for K/D. While I consider M/D one of the best pairs of all time, I can't say the same for K/D.
     
  12. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    It already looks like a final 3 of Savchenko & Szolkowy, Berezhnaya & Sikharulidze, and Shen & Zhou.
     
  13. blue_idealist

    blue_idealist Well-Known Member

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    That's what it should be, Totmianina/Marinin are objectively good but sleep-inducing. I started up one of their programs to watch last night, but then got bored in like 20 seconds and watched a freakin' WOETZEL AND STEUER program instead, one I even knew had mistakes! That's how boring T/M are.
     
  14. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    I find Savchenko & Szolkowy overrated and would have Totmianina & Marinin stay longer but it is clear I am in the minority on that. For me I can appreciate the sheer quality and near perfection of most of what T&M do both in elements (outside of the lifts and triple twist of course) and overall skating. I also appreciate their consistency doing such difficult programs with such precision and class in everything, and making it look easy.

    I can see why people like Aliona & Robin but to me they are almost a transition champion x 2, dominating while Shen & Zhou took a break, the Zhangs were already on decline, and Pang & Tong were in a slump, and now only holding the seat warm until Voloszhar & Trankov take over completely which will probably happen starting this season IMHO. They only win when there is no great teams to compete against. It was telling to me how easily Shen & Zhou could waltz back in and dominate them after being retired for years and well into their 30s. Contrast that to T&M who often beat S&Z even in their primes.
     
  15. blue_idealist

    blue_idealist Well-Known Member

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    Savchenko and Szolkowy aren't always great technically, and are inconsistent, but are 100x more entertaining than Totmianina and Marinin.
     
  16. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    S/S had a rough Olympic season - P/T and S/Z didn't beat them anywhere their best that year. So maybe that shouldn't count, either, by your logic?

    They are also much more entertaining and interesting than everyone judgejudy listed - including Shen and Zhao, whose programs got progressively less interesting over the years. And if V/T finish ahead S/S with the sort of programs they skated in 2011-12, I will cry. Really.
     
  17. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    S/S have never come close to beating S/Z, and the Olympic season isnt the only times they have met. There really isnt anything to discuss.
     
  18. skateboy

    skateboy Well-Known Member

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    I think people are underrating P/T. I voted for K/D.
     
  19. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    Then why are you discussing? :confused:

    S/Z never faced S/S at their best; Aliona and Robin hadn't yet hit their stride when S/Z retired the first time. Since by your logic wins only count if the other team is at or near peak form, clearly beating S/S in 2007 or in the Olympic season doesn't count. Or does your rule apply only if S/S are the victorious team?
     
  20. antmanb

    antmanb Well-Known Member

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    :rofl:the only rules that ever apply are artibrarily made up on the spot to bolster your own argument. It's the primary rule of the interwebz logic has nothing to do with it ;)
     
  21. kwanette

    kwanette Fetalized since 1998

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    I agree. For me, many of the prs left are "sterile". I appreciate their achievements, but they leave me cold. I have always had a soft spot for P/T since I saw them in person at SA in 03. I find him so elegant...and she eventually ate and improved.
     
  22. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    So either S&S were not ready yet and that is why they werent beating S&Z, then when S&Z come back they magically go into a slump, and magically return to their peak when S&Z leave again. Seems all too convenient. :lol: OK so when was their peak, 2008-2009 when they were usually winning despite wildly erratic performances, never doing clean long programs, and winning a Worlds with a lame performance like this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAxTbMwnf6o

    Wow Shen & Zhou are sure lucky they didnt face peak S&S. :lol: For the record I am not even a S&Z fan. Fact is S&S even in their peaks years were having trouble beating teams like P&T and Z&Z who none of the greats, including even the much vilified T&M had any problem whatsoever beating everytime they met. Fact is S&S have never been on top except when there was no great teams to face.
     
  23. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

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    Many teams (in all of skating) have won golds because of weak fields including S/Z so that's a weak argument.

    In 2009-2010 S/Z were also given scores remarkably higher than what they deserved especially at the Olympics sp and fs. P/T really messed up in the short and it's too bad because it cost them an Olympic gold.

    Not to mention Ingo Steuer wasn't going to win coach of the year by setting his team back 6 months in an Olympic year by making them re-learn a new long program after one meltdown at TEB. They just could have put it behind them and move on with it and instead of trying the new "Out of Africa"

    I know it was a favorite of many but it also put most of their competitors six months ahead as far as being comfortable with the program, that's really important as far as I'm concerned was his biggest mistake as a coach.
     
  24. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    I bow down before your superior logic and persuasion skills! :lol:
     
  25. shady82

    shady82 New Member

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    I also agree that T&M should be in the top 3. I think a clean Savchenko/Szokowy is superior to a clean T&M, because S&S have more complex programs, technically and choreographically, and do things with a high level of quality as well. But S&S hardly ever skate clean freeskates, and during the 2008-2009 competed against teams that weren't World Champion material, so obviously they dominated. I think S&S at their peak should challenge S&Z if clean, but of course S&S never skate clean.

    T&M have amazing quality in their elements and the quintessential Russian elegance. They always performed well and delivered triple salchows too. I remember their amazing Ave Maria SP at Worlds in 2005, which was performed to perfection and 'cast a spell' as Peggy Fleming said. IMO that performance was one of the best World SPs of the decade. On the other hand, their 2006 Olympic FP was hardly memorable.
     
  26. shady82

    shady82 New Member

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    P/T messed up the short? :confused:
     
  27. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

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    They got a one point music violation and got undermarked for the rest of the program so that Kawaguchi and Smirnov would still be in podium placements after the SP.
     
  28. julieann

    julieann Well-Known Member

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    They weren't under marked, they didn't perform as well as they could have regardless of the music violation-which is a stupid mistake at that level. If they had the one point added back in they still would had been in 4th place. The top three were tough to crack that every point was needed so it's too bad they gave up a couple of points.
     
  29. miffy

    miffy Well-Known Member

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    I think P/T were seriously undermarked in the short, and should have won overall - it was never going to happen though.

    I never got the fuss over S/Z. They were very good but I can't see the 'magic' everyone else seems to. :p

    I liked Totmianina and Marinin which seems to be an even more unpopular thing to say. :lol:
     
  30. antmanb

    antmanb Well-Known Member

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    :lynch: Burn her! Burn her! :lol:

    In hindsight, and having slagged them off their entire elligible career, I've gone back now and enjoyed some of their programmes.
     
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