Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by allezfred, Jun 13, 2012.
If you want something done right, you have to do it yourself.
Woetzel & Steuer. Ewww. BTW I hope the Canadians are elimated early and some patriotic Canadian comes in to defend them.
Gotta go with Eltsova/Bushkov, the skating equivalent of Kristin Stewart's "acting" face...
V&T was so close to making this poll, twice...
E/B were so blah!! Out!!
I'm voting for Pang & Tong until they go. All of their programs except the 2010 LP were completely interchangeable to me.
Woetzel & Steuer by a landslide. Eltsova & Bushkov atleast did the technical elements properly and well.
Shishkova & Naumov: Worlds 1994
Kovaříková & Novotny: Worlds 1995
Eltsova & Bushkov: Worlds 1996
Woetzel & Steuer: Worlds 1997
Kazakova & Dmitriev: Olys 1998
Berezhnaya & Sikharulidze: Worlds 1998, 1999, Olys 2002
Petrova & Tikhonov: Worlds 2000
Sale & Pelletier: Worlds 2001, Olys 2002
Shen & Zhao: Worlds 2002, 2003, 2007, Olys 2010
Totmianina & Marinin: Worlds 2004, 2005, Olys 2006
Pang & Tong: Worlds 2006, Worlds 2010
Savchenko & Szolkowy: Worlds 2008, 2009, 2011, 2012
I never realized people disliked them so much considering Steuer is respected as a coach. I didn't follow their career "live" so I've only seen some of their major winning performances and didn't think of them as being inconsistent (which I guess is the issue here?). I thought they usually came across with nicely choreographed, pleasant, but not masterpiece programs and didn't have a big problem with them. I'd rank them above both P&Ts and E&B at least. What am I missing?
I dont dislike them. Technically they were so weak though. Their triple twist was poor and their double twist was one of the tiniest in the World. Their lifts barely covered any ice, were slow, and shaky. Their death spirals were weak, she never got low or in a good position. Their footwork sequences were easy. Their side by side jumps and spins were sometimes strong, and sometimes out of sync (and sometimes she fell of course). They were very inconsistent too, hardly ever skating cleanly, and even having some epic meltdowns in major events (eg- 1994 Olympics, 1995 Worlds, 1998 GP final).
Technically they are below all the other teams on this list, and it is not artistically they blow many of them out of the water even if they had a few nice programs. E&B were boring as heck but they atleast did the technical elements much better if you compare the two teams, apart from spirals, pairs spins, and sometimes jumps.
If people don't know who Eltsova and Bushkov are, well......
they should consider themselves lucky.
I didn't realize that Eltsova & Bushkov had won a world title before this pole.
I guess their win wasn't that memorable. zzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Yeltsova-Bushkov were better skaters than Woetzel & Steyer. They had better positions, lines, and were quite pleasant to watch. Her rotation in the air was lovely. W&S's world title was undeserved, IMO. They were slow, and really did not have any qualities that set them apart from the rest. IIRC they had problems on both their throws when they won their world title (or am I confusing it with the previous year?). Y&B did have a fall on the sbs 3t, but should have won over W&S.
I think the judges did not want to make Y&B back to back pairs champions because they were really not a great pair. They did, however, beat B&S and K&D at the 1998 Russian nationals, and that's not too shabby, since K&D and B&S won gold and silver at the Olympics just a few months later. After 1994, the pairs field was quite weak until 1998.
I never understood the hatred for Y&B. I was not their fan, but they were OK.
P.S. I did not vote for W&S, just to clarify.
I think people dont like Y&B since they showed no personality on the ice, and they used that tedious free program they won Worlds with two years in a row. I agree with everything you said though, and they were definitely a better team than W&S. Who did you vote for btw.
Just so. Okay and no special personality for me.
I don't hate them by any means (if I did I probably wouldn't go for them first). I mostly just don't have much feeling about them at all...
On the other hand, W/S were misguided enough often enough that they're more memorable even if they're technically weaker.
I enjoyed Woetzel and Steuer A LOT, though I agree that they were stronger artistically than technically.
Kovarikova & Novotny. I admit I wasnt a fan back then and I hardly remember them. Plus they won as a payback for being robbed at Euros that year. Two wrondg don't make a right IMO.
I'd say Eltsova&Bushkov, but they were a strong team technically, compared to the others of the era.
So, my vote goes to Pang&Tong, because they ever did anything to me.
I liked Eltsova/Bushkov's style, actually. They were a strong team, but didn't have the consistency. I'm going to vote for them first.
I'm surprised nobody's mentioned Petrova/Tikhonov so far. They won 2000 Worlds with a solid but hardly memorable program, which in some years may not have even medaled. Their skating improved quite a bit in their last couple seasons (terrific SPs 2004-2006), but they never truly contended for the top spot. I'm probably voting for them next.
Pang/Tong actually won an Olympic medal and two World Championships (though both were in somewhat weak fields). I like their style more too - terrific interpretation and artistry in some of their programs, and classic Chinese mastery of throws and lifts.
Don't worry, they are my next vote !
Yes Kovarikova & Novotny clearly should have won Europeans that year, but Woetzel & Steuer received what most viewed as a hometown gift (I would have had them 3rd behind Shishkova & Naumov). At Worlds Kovarikova & Novotny skated an excellent short, but then a much worse long than Europeans, and still won over a flaweless Shishkova & Naumov (Woetzel & Steuer 2nd after the short bombed and came 5th). Barb Underhill & Paul Martini on CBC were rooting for K&V to win, and livid when they didnt win Europeans, but were dissapointed with their performance at Worlds, and pretty much agreed the judges gave them gold as a "make up, sorry we screwed you there" present for what happened at Europeans. That plus knowing it was their final amateur event likely too.
The problem is if you keep doing that someone will always be screwed in the end, unless you keep giving the next victim a makeup gift when the appropriate time comes, it has to end somewhere. Unfortunately this time Shishkova & Naumov were the victims, as they often were in their careers it seemed. No make up gift ever came there way in the future, that is for sure.
The US wuzrobbed of having a team in this poll.
Very true. FS judges keep doing it, like the Oscars- trying to make up for past injustices and in the process created even more injustice. Shishkova-Naumov was one of the unluckiest pairs. The breaks never went their way.
Too bad the last US pair to win a world title was Babilonia & Gardner in 1979.
Yeah they had the performances of their life at the 94 Olympics, would have won gold or silver at every other Olympics probably, but came 4th due to the reinstated legends and Brasseur & Eisler skating well and having the clout as reigning World Champs. Of course that had to be the ONLY year reinstated pros were allowed back. Then winning every event they entered in the 95-96 season, being off at Worlds but all the other top pairs making as many mistakes or more in that messy event, and being bumped to 4th by freakish ordinals despite 4 1st place votes. Then major injuries the next 2 years, and the Russian depth in pairs piling up again at the same time as their injuries and struggles to regain form.
Thank goodness they won the 94 Worlds. By the way I have plenty of space so feel free to send me a PM if you like now.
And had more detailed transitions and choreography.
Woeztel and Steuer have to be one of the most overrated pairs teams in history. He was ok, but everything she did was so wobbly and stiff.
I voted Shishkova & Naumov. I will never ever forgive them for those horrible lime green outfits in 1992.
Speaking of Shiskova and Nuamov, I figure now's a good time to post their little seen 1997 Europeans FS to "Meditation".
I never saw this before until recently, and never knew they even had a Meditation program. I just assumed they skated Don Quixote straight through from 96-98.
It's not as good as B&S's Meditation would be years later, but it's way better than Don Quixote, so I don't know why they didn't just keep this one for 98 rather than go back to DQ.
That just means all our votes will be fair and without national bias.
How could 1 person vote Savchenko and Szolkowy... They are the best
*Sigh* I really miss pairs skating under 6.0. That was really beautiful, two death spirals without stupid blade holds, spastic entries or exits, change of holds or pivots, just nice simply death spirals. Choreography enhacngin spiral and spins. Plenty of time to show spped, flow, ice coverage, two skateing as one. Everything that COP has destroyed in pairs skating for me. Though i still adore savchenko and szolkowy.
COP completely ruined pairs skating for me. Other disciplines actually gained some from COP scoring, despite some of its shortcomings. However, pairs skating under COP has become a series of ugly positions, no relation to music, and quite frankly I don't even enjoy watching it anymore. I don't care for S&S either. There isn't a pair now that I truly love the way I loved B&S, M&D, G&G, and liked B&P or S&N or even Pet-Tik.
That's your opinion.
No, I did not vote for them, but I disagree that they are the best. JMO.
Beautiful. I love her extensions and pointed toes. It just goes to show how beautiful a lift can be when the skater does not catch her foot (COP style), and the simple death spirals are so much more effective for interpreting music, than the 'change of hands/catch foot death spirals which make me sick). Nice unison too.
I wonder why they did not skate this in 1998? With a clean skate may be they could have won an Olympic spot. I really miss this pair. They do lack extroverted passion in their skating, but they make up for it with the finer points.
I am surprised to see Sale & Pelletier to be so high on the list.
Although they were never my favorites, I expected them to have quite a few followers.
"You cannot give reputation to the same post twice"
Okay, yes, she had 'issues'. Whenever I think of her trying a double axel, I see her practically horizontal to the ice, and of course she fell. Badly. But I absolutely loved the Up Close and Personals with them. IIRC, Mandy and Ingo 'dated' but one time for the US camera she decided to bring a cute German boy with her, and Ingo stormed off in a jealous rage. So I give points to Mandy for getting under Ingo's skin. They weren't boring, that's for sure.
Apparently not in that poster's opinion...
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