Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Vagabond, Jul 8, 2012.
What exactly was so much more musical about Yagudin than Abt? Have you seen his 2001worlds SP?
You're kidding right? Yes Abt could be all over the place, but at his best, Yagudin wishes he could do a camel spin with the positions and speed that Abt does them here, and I've never seen Yagudin move with as much freedom or flow as Abt does in the footwork sequence following that spin.
Thanks for the link.
Abt was definitely underrated but one of the best, your making me miss him
Abt had the best edges , lines and camel spins ever and his skating he is like gliding in the air.
oh and the never ending legs are to die for !!!!
now for the votes ! more votes for False God Yagudin !!!
Me my fav program of Yagudin is Borken arrow, maybe an unpopular opinion, but I just love it. Especially Skate Canada or Skate America version, I dont remember. And Revolutionary etude and of course Winter. I also think Tosca suited him well.
But if you look at his repertoire he didnt have such range of music choices or performance style. The movie scores always carry away the audience but I like the above programs more.. I liked MITM but it is the music that gives goosebumbs, I liked it even from KVDP this season and Bazarova/Larionov last season.
Well that was my point, because someone had brought up the idea that if you take away Plushenko's medals and his jumps, he is not that good. I wouldn't take that out of the equation, but if you do, then you get results like Abt being better than Plush.
Abt's crossovers jerky and clunky? We seriously are not watching the same skater then.
And I am sooooooo sick of people saying that Abt is only liked because of his looks; how come they never say that about Joubert and Kulik? One of my favorite skaters is Alban Preaubert, so no.
I've lost track of how many times I've read about Joubert getting points and winning over fans because he's good-looking and the male version of Kiira Korpi. Far more often than I've heard the same about Abt, perhaps because Joubert is still competing and has had better results in his career.
I watched Abt's Rach 2/3 program tonight for the first time in ages. Fabulous - though I'll always have a soft spot for the Artsakh SP from that season, as it was the first time I really noticed him. I also watched his Gasolina EX from the 2006 Red Square gala, further proof that he can skate to anything and make it look good
You seem to be referring to me, but you are misrepresenting what I said. I said that Plushenko's competitive record was largely due to the fact he is such a good jumper and that if you took away his jumps and looked at the rest of his performances, he's much better than Stojko but not on the same level as Takahashi or Lambiel. I think that's a fair assessment, but how much emphasis anyone places on any particular factor is up to that person.
I'm certainly not ignoring jumping ability or competitive record. Those are the main reasons why I didn't vote for Stojko before Urmanov or Eldredge. However, I don't think that Plushenko's jumping ability and competitive record necessarily mean he should stay in longer than Lambiel or Takahashi. I haven't made up my mind yet, and I won't until the next round starts.
Imho Abt was overrated, most of all by his (female???) fans, who fell for his innocent milk-boy image. They prefer to see him in an always victim/hero-role. Although probably more talented than Yagudin and Plushenko, in fact, most of the time, he failed because lack of discipline, diligence PLUS too much and ...
Well even Kulik himself said something like "If you are a good skater, that's good. If you are a good looking good skater, that's great."
I am just joking. I don't really think that Joubert got high pcs because he's good looking. It seems that judges always appreciate more about jumps than other elements. If someone's skating skills are not totally bad and can land jumps, judges tend to give him higher pcs even if the program is empty. But if someone skates to a more difficult program, but often messes up jumps, his pcs would have a higher chance to be underrated. One of the exemples is Abbott, by the way, he's good looking too.
Oh, that cracked me up. I like Plushy's jumps, but his footwork, his strokes and crossovers always look like an old lady trying to run fast, but runs with small small steps, no flow on the ice. His upper body always looks funny to me when he does the footwook. I still think he has a better chance to beat Chan than Takahashi though.
If Plushenko return continues into a major event at some point (Worlds or Olympics, which I wouldnt be surprised if it doesnt) he has no chance to beat Chan barring a 4 or 5 splatfest from Chan. A clean Plushenko couldnt even beat a quadless Lysacek in Vancouver, and Chan today is a far better skater in everyway than Lysacek, and has the Worlds best quads (when landed) to boot. Add to that the judges are absolutely infatuated with Chan and are overmarking him even more significantly than they did Evan in the year after he won Worlds, and you get the picture.
Chan is prone to error, but his errors werent even enough to allow a clean or close to clean LP from Takahashi at both the 2012 Worlds and 2012 GP final to beat him the LP phase. So they sure as heck wouldnt be enough for an old Plushenko who could never match Takahashi from those events at this point. Takahashi has actually been jumping fairly consistently lately, which would be an old Plushenko's only possible edge over Takahashi, so with that said Takahashi right now has a better shot vs Chan or anyone else than old Plushenko, although even that isnt very much at all with the judges 30 point Chanflation per competition.
What's so funny about this? All I said was that he was better with his feet than Yagudin in the footwork, and to me Yagudin's footwork was not super impressive to begin with. So I'm not necessarily complementing Plushenko either.
I'm not even that big of an Abt fan, but anyone claiming Yagudin to have better lines than Abt seriously don't know what they are talking about. Despite all his accomplishments and being one of the all time bests, Yagudin really didn't have the best lines or posture.
Well looks funny to me.
LOL NOBODY said he did. Better than Abt does not = best. We were all talking about Alexander freaking Abt here, not John Curry.
I think that would be a lot more interesting than this one actually! People would have to justify their choices, not just rely on medals!
I'm not getting into the whole "Abt vs Yagudin" debate. But looking at Abt's skating on its own I don't think it's fair to say that Abt was slow, at least not in his better performances. He was actually capable of generating a lot of speed without relying as much on crossovers as a lot of other skaters (which perhaps made him look slower on TV than in the rink). Definitely underrated. I agree about the 2-foot skating though, even in some of his better performances.
We know he cant beat Chan and Daisuke, so what?He still has the 3rd best Lp score of the season, and the 3rd total score too and that with a quadless sp at Euros. He gets overscored too you know , it is not just Chan.
The being old caramel is getting old though, he is way past his prime age but the rest arent getting any younger, we are not talking about Hanyu generation, Daisuke, Abott and a bunch more will be 28 and 29 in Sochi, older than what old Plushenko was in Vancouver, and I see Daisuke becoming better every season.
Although Chan will be in the ideal for OGM age
He wasn't passionate like Yagudin, but what he did was always so pure and effortless. His inconsistency was unfortunate, but it really didn't take away the beauty of his skating for me. His Olympic programs were to die for and for me much more enjoyable than those by Plushenko or Goebel. My star of SLC Olympics were definitely Yagudin, Honda and Abt. How I wish that was the podium.
His speed was deceptive, like Kwan's, just because he was so effortless.