Figure Skating Champions SURVIVOR: Men's ROUND 7

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Vagabond, Jul 8, 2012.

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Who is the weakest link

Poll closed Jul 12, 2012.
  1. Ilia Kulik

    97 vote(s)
    32.8%
  2. Alexei Yagudin

    11 vote(s)
    3.7%
  3. Evgeni Plushenko

    56 vote(s)
    18.9%
  4. Stéphane Lambiel

    66 vote(s)
    22.3%
  5. Daisuke Takahashi

    66 vote(s)
    22.3%
  1. Triple Butz

    Triple Butz Well-Known Member

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    This is getting tough. I voted Ilia. Love his Olympic skates but he rarely skated his best like that.
     
  2. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    So dissapointed to see Stephane with so many votes. He is my favorite skater. I always hoped fans appreciated his skating more than the often stupid judges did, but perhaps not.
     
  3. shine

    shine Well-Known Member

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    He's my favourite too, but I'm honestly surprised that he has so FEW votes, even fewer than Plushenko :lol: I think he's one of the most widely appreciated skaters, and I'm actually not sure why you think the judges didn't like him. Judges loved him. He's always received rather generous scores when he didn't skate well.
     
  4. casken

    casken Well-Known Member

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    Voted Plushy again.

    Not a big Kulik fan, but he was slightly better at his best than Plushenko at his best, IMO. Although I despised his Olympic FS, Kulik had better programs and more range than Plushy overall.

    Kulik has really grown as a "pro" skater and has been doing some really surprising and innovative stuff too.
     
  5. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Well for instance the common consensus was skating squeeky clean he had NO chance to get close to beating Plushenko in Turin even with quads and triple axels. Yet an average skater like Lysacek is allowed to beat a clean Plushenko with no quad? That to me seems like a joke, if Lysacek can beat a clean Plushenko with no quad, then Lambiel should have a chance to with no quad and no triple axel, after all Lambiel skating cleanly with nothing harder than a triple lutz should beat a quadless and clean Evan when you compare the two skaters. :D OK Plushenko was like half the skater he was in 2006 in 2010, he wasnt getting nearly as overmarked anymore either, Lysacek was being overmarked in 2010 due to being World Champ, Plushenko didnt even skate and especialy jump well for even his 2010 standards in his Olympic LP, but still you get the idea.

    Also I look at Chan scoring over 200 points for a good LP, and Lambiel's stunning LP in the qualifying round at the 2005 Worlds get barely 150, and I know scoring inflation occurs over time but I still dont get it. :lol:
     
  6. misskarne

    misskarne #408

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    Oh, this is terrible. I don't know who to vote for.

    I won't vote for Plushenko and Yagudin because they should be the final two without question.

    Ilia may not have the greatest competition record, but he has such a fine jump technique, and his skating was very interesting. I especially love his SP from the Olympic season. I just can't vote for Ilia.

    Stephane loses something in my eyes because of the lack of 3A, but his spins so divine, and his artistry so magnificent...I don't know that I could vote for him.

    I enjoy Daisuke's skating, he's fun to watch, he always gives his all, he has a wonderful feel for the music and great presentation, and how he's not a World Champion yet is unbelieveable...I don't know if I could vote for him.

    This is very difficult. All such excellent skaters! All so talented! I may have to sit this one out, but I don't know if I could sit by and watch Ilia and his flawless technique get voted off...
     
  7. flipforsynchro

    flipforsynchro New Member

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    Plushy has so many votes :O I'm not a fan, but his record is impressive
     
  8. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    People seem more bothered by Stephane's lack of a triple axel than others lack of a quad, but a quad and no triple axel is more valuable points wise than no quad and a triple axel, which many of his main competitors (eg- Weir, Lysacek, Buttle, Oda much of his career) had. Stephane also has done numerous triple axels in his career, unlike those I mentioned who have maybe done 1 or 2 clean quads.
     
  9. ChelleC

    ChelleC Well-Known Member

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    I really hate this, but with his competitive record, it has to be Kulik. :( I so wish he'd stayed Olympic Eligible for the next cycle. He was only 20 when he won!
     
  10. vodkashot

    vodkashot Active Member

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    Daisuke is the 2010 World Champion.
     
  11. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    :barrel :violin: :summer:

    I can make the next round tougher, if you want.

    :EVILLE:
     
  12. unicorn

    unicorn Member

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    It doesn't look like people are more bothered by Stephane's lack of a triple axel than others lack of a quad. Lysacek and Buttle, they've been voted out. Oda and Weir, not even on the list. The only one here who has a lower quad success rate is Takahashi, and he's getting more votes than Lambiel. :lol: The result is just the opposite of what you said.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2012
  13. misskarne

    misskarne #408

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    So he is *facepalm*. Multiple World Champion, then.

    But then, I suppose, you look at someone like Plushenko, someone so great and talented and incredible...and he's only won it three times. So I don't know that World Championships can tell the tale of a whole career.
     
  14. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    That's the problem with Dai and to a lesser extent Stephane - considering their talent and abilities, their record could have been better. Looking at medals and wins, some of the eliminated skaters certainly surpass them.

    Plushenko didn't compete at Worlds the years he medalled at the Olympics; I'm sure he could have had a more impressive record had a done so. And of course he WD in 2005.
     
  15. umronnie

    umronnie Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, Plush only has 3 world titles, the slacker... but then he only lost the title 3 times, as well (and all to Yags).

    Seriously, with the exception of Kulik, who took his OGM and split, the other four guys were hampered by injuries. Yagudin had to retire due to his hip, Lambiel gave up on the 3A due to (groin? abdomen?) injury, Dai's quad used to be a lot more consistant before his ACL injury and Plush, well, we all know he's held together by duct tape and gum.
     
  16. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Like who? Stojko of course but who else. I dont consider any of Eldredge, Urmanov, Joubert, or Buttle to have had better careers than Lambiel or Takahashi. Lysacek and Chan might be considered by some to have better careers than Takahashi but I dont think either had a better career than Lambiel. Lambiel's extra World title + Olympic silver atleast equal Lysacek's Olympic Gold, and Lambiel has an extra grand prix final title. Chan doesnt even have an Olympic medal yet.
     
  17. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    I said medals and wins. Stephane Lambiel especially does not have that good of a competitive record, because he didn't do all that well in the first few years of his career and skipped a lot of events in the latter part of it. And two of his biggest achievements - the first World title and the Olympic silver- came in poorly skated events in which even he wasn't that good. Dai's record is better, but still does not match his talent, IMO. One problem is that neither is/was a very consistent jumper (and Dai is prone to URs), and their injury issues probably haven't helped.

    Anyway - Stojko, of course. Joubert has a boatload of medals, including three European golds to Stephane's zero - think about it, Sarah Meier has more Euro titles than Stephane, and as many medals. In fact, Joubert has more (senior) ISU Championship medals than Stephane and Dai combined; you can even throw in their Olys medals and he will still have more medals than both of them together. Eldredge also won a lot of medals in his career, though fewer as he did not have a continental championship to compete in until late in his career. Chan's record is similar to that of Lambiel and Takahashi - maybe even a bit better - despite having been around for a shorter time.

    You know, between this and my earlier defense of Takahashi, I believe I have talked myself into voting for Lambiel in the next round.
     
  18. lauravvv

    lauravvv Well-Known Member

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    Thank you. Bu the first one is Plushenko's 2001 SP again, and the second is 2005 FS ;).


    A double elimination? Nothing tough there, though. It will leave us with Yagudin an Plushenko anyway - just a bit sooner than without the double elimination. Besides, Takahashi and Lambiel are so equal overall, that they deserve to go together.

    Now I probably have convinced you not to make it a double elimination :shuffle:.

    Voted for Kulik again. The least impressive medal record, a shorter competitive career + I don't see anything special in his style, although it was nice (at least when it comes to competitive programs - I haven't seen that much of his professional performances).
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2012
  19. ChelleC

    ChelleC Well-Known Member

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    Next one will be tough enough on its own. :lol:
     
  20. lauravvv

    lauravvv Well-Known Member

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    I agree. It will be tougher the normal way than it would be with a double elimination.
     
  21. Proustable

    Proustable New Member

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    I predict right now that if next week is a double elimination, Plushenko would go as one of the two choices.
     
  22. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    I fixed the Lambiel bonus videos. Thank you, lauravvv.

    As for the possibility of a double elimination.... If I do it, everyone will get only one vote, so using it to "save" somebody will be a lot harder to do.

    By the way, I think Plushenko may be vulnerable next week even if it's a single elimination. :watch:

    As for this week, IMHO it's clearly Kulik's time to go. Whatever his comparative strengths, he didn't compete at the top level long enough or rack up enough major victories to warrant his staying in another round against the likes of these.
     
  23. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    No double eliminations! It's just starting to get really interesting! And the off season has a ways to go...

    I wonder where the Kulik votes will go.... if they're anti-Russian votes, I would assume Plushy, but I don't think that the Kulik voters are anti-Russian, I think they're based on his relatively weaker record. Kulik is also considered "artistic" moreso than Plush, so if these voters are willing to vote out more artistic skaters based on a weaker record, then that would imply they will switch to Takahashi, who will have the weakest record left.
     
  24. antmanb

    antmanb Well-Known Member

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    This Kulik vote will go to Labiel, I think. I have never beena fan of Plush, but his record really speaks for itself and I feel that in all good conscience I couldn't vote for him until it's him and Yags :p

    I'd vote Lambiel over Takahashi just because Stephane's career is over and Daisuke's isn't, and I'm hoping Daisuke might snap up a few more (preferably gold) medals in what is left of his career. For me Kulik would have been out much sooner, and Chan would still be in.
     
  25. lauravvv

    lauravvv Well-Known Member

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    I am not so sure. All the Kulik voters will go somewhere. I think that Cherub721 (as quoted below) is right, and most of them are voting for Kulik based on his weaker record and overall achievements, as did I. Which also means that they are more likely to vote reasonably - that is - for Takahashi or Lambiel, not for Plushenko.

    Or Lambiel, as I think the voting is not just about medals, but also about overall achievements - including longevity, other excellent skates that also could have medaled, or medaled higher than they did, and so on. That is very much about Takahashi.
     
  26. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    At the moment, there is a two-way tie for second (i.e., second from the bottom or fourth overall) between Takahashi and Lambiel, with 44 votes apiece, with Plushenko right behind with 42 votes. Even if Kulik is eliminated this round, it could be any one of these three to go next. :COP:

    Yagudin is currently sitting pretty with just 6 votes. :summer:
     
  27. Cherub721

    Cherub721 YEAH!

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    He is clearly going to win and I think he deserves it, but I hope it's Plushy at the end with him and there's a good discussion, cause I think there are some arguments for Plushy (a better Olympic record than Yags and more innovation in jump combos). Why can't a bunch of Plushy ubers register already? :p
     
  28. Cheylana

    Cheylana Well-Known Member

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    Why can't FSU voters just be a little more objective and stop voting against their favorites' rivals out of spite? :p I haven't really enjoyed Plush's skating that much these past few years, but his record speaks for itself and he deserves to be here a few more rounds at the very least. I'd argue that maybe he even deserves to win over Yags, though I definitely don't see that happening.
     
  29. bbkenn

    bbkenn Well-Known Member

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    He's Canadian, and many people on this board don't like Canadians:lol:
     
  30. misskarne

    misskarne #408

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    They'd probably rather register at the forums on Plushy's website and be among other ubers than register at a place where he's considered the most evil thing in skating and it's considered a sin to like him.

    I agree. It should be Plushenko and Yagudin as the final two. Plushy won't win, but he should definitely be final two. His record is simply incredible, you have to admire his determination to continue, his longevity, and his incredible consistency. He's probably had fewer falls across his entire Senior career than Chan has had in two seasons.