Figure Skating Champions SURVIVOR: Men's ROUND 6

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Vagabond, Jul 4, 2012.

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Who is the weakest link?

Poll closed Jul 8, 2012.
  1. Ilia Kulik

    68 vote(s)
    24.8%
  2. Alexei Yagudin

    9 vote(s)
    3.3%
  3. Evgeni Plushenko

    26 vote(s)
    9.5%
  4. Stéphane Lambiel

    39 vote(s)
    14.2%
  5. Daisuke Takahashi

    43 vote(s)
    15.7%
  6. Patrick Chan

    89 vote(s)
    32.5%
  1. sk8ingcoach

    sk8ingcoach Active Member

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    How could people vote for Chan before Daisuke. If any of you have seen Patrick skate live then you would understand why he gets the components marks that he does. Yeah Daisuke is good too, but Chan has a huge lead on technical ability. Chan has done 4T and 4T+3T for the past 2 seasons, which is in the same league as Yagudin. Daisuke hasnt even come close to Patrick in technical this past 2 seasons ( exception of WTT ). My vote would go for Daisuke or Lambiel now, but because Kulik is so high i had to vote for him so i can try and keep Chan in
  2. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    I voted for Kulik and explained my reasoning earlier. However, I would certainly have voted Chan out before Takahashi. While technically Chan's programs are harder, they are often messy. For a skater whose skating skills are considered by many to blow those of the rest of the field out of the water, he makes a lot of silly mistakes, and not just on hard elements. Speaking of harder elements, his issues with the 3A are well known, and if you check out the Kings of Quad thread, you'll see that Chan attempts many of them but his success rate is nowhere near that of Yagudin, and is lower than Plushenko and Joubert's as well. FWIW, Takahashi doesn't have a good success rate, either.

    Still, while Chan may have the edge technically, he is not even close to Takahashi's league artistically. Dai has challenged himself by working with different choreographers and having different styles of programs and music. It's not only fans who respond to what he does - his fellow skaters obviously like and admire him and his skating. Chan, so far, has had difficult but artistically generic programs. And clearly not everyone who sees him live is impressed, as could be seen from the audience reaction in Nice.

    The main knock on Takahashi is that his record in major events could have been better considering his ability. Still, he won 4CC in 2008 with what was a record breaking performance - one that held for several years - won an Olympic medal less than a year after returning to the ice following ACL surgery (which certainly messed up his tech), and won his world title convincingly. Considering he had to transition from 6.0 to the IJS and then dealt with the aftermath of the ACL injury in recent years, I think he's done very well.

    I don't think Dai should outlast Yagudin and Plushenko, but other than that, he's one of the best skaters in this poll; I'm not even sure he should go before Lambiel.
  3. love_skate2011

    love_skate2011 Well-Known Member

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    when is the next round ? lol

    more votes for false God Yagudin :soapbox:
    it is Blasphemy for Plushy getting more votes than Yagudin
  4. RumbleFish

    RumbleFish New Member

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    Chan should really sit down and think hard why he can win competitions, but not hearts of skating fans.
  5. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    PML !
    If Yagudin is a false God, I wonder what is Plushenko...maybe a false king ?
  6. vodkashot

    vodkashot New Member

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    I've seen Chan live and I don't entirely understand why he gets the PCS he does.....SS, TR, yes. But PE, IN, CH? Definitely not, especially when he skated like he did in Nice.
  7. Keftiu

    Keftiu New Member

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    Absolutely agree with you.
  8. lauravvv

    lauravvv Well-Known Member

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    Looks very probable that Lambiel will go before Takahashi. I bet that most of those Chan voters have Takahashi as one of their favourite (if not absolutely favourite) skaters. A lot of Kulik voters will go for Lambiel as well. Allthough I personally see no reason why Lambiel should be voted out before Takahashi. But, of course, Takahashi is a current favourite, while Lambiel was mostly competing at the time when many figure skating fans of today were not watching yet, and is slightly forgotten by others.

    Although, to be objective, that triple axel speaks in Takahashi's favour, as does comparative consistency when it comes to jumps (if I remember correctly). Lambiel has two world golds and one bronze, Takahashi has one gold and two silvers one of which could have probably been a gold (I personally don't quite believe in that), but Lambiel has an Olympic silver, while Takahashi has a bronze. Takahashi has more Grand Prix golds and other Grand Prix medals, although no Grand Prix Final gold - but he very likely should have had one of them. Which would leave Lambiel with just one Grand Prix gold, instead of two. But Lambiel has taken part in less Grand Prix events than Takahashi. Takahashi has had more problems with the quad (or lack of it) than Lambiel. Their skating skills are pretty much equal, it seems. And so is their artistry. Spins - here Lambiel wins.

    I know that I probably started writing about Dai and Stephane too soon - I should have left it for the ninth round. But I just worry a bit too much. To tell the truth, Daisuke is my third favourite male skater from those who are still skating (I mean both competitive and professional - the second is Kurt Browning), but Stephane is my absolutely favourite skater.
  9. misskarne

    misskarne Spirit. Focus. Ability. Tenacity. Aussie Grit.

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    I've never quite understood how Chan gets such huge PE marks. Let's say the words the letters stand for slowly: Performance Execution. How on earth can he get marked well for that if he's falling on his backside?! Obviously he's not executing the performance very well if he keeps falling over.
  10. ciocio

    ciocio New Member

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    Voted for Lambiel. Kulik is next, even I adore him!:(
    Yagudin will probably win this :p but I will vote Plushenko over him because Plushy is still competing. Sorrryyy, Yags!:D
  11. love_skate2011

    love_skate2011 Well-Known Member

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    yes yes this is what I'm saying :p
    Zhenya is the real God not Yagudin :soapbox:
  12. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Technical ability does NOT justify Chan's uberinflated PCS. That is what the TES is for, not the PCS, where except possibly skating skills should not be affected by technical level, except for falls (which Chan has more of then anyone). As for technical ability if he were so technically strong why cant he keep his ass off the ice in competition, and falls more than any of the other top skaters with such supposably peerless technique. His jumps are overrated and not nearly as strong as they are potrayed, and while his spins are better than Takahashi for the most part they are nothing out of the world either.
  13. manleywoman

    manleywoman podcast mistress

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    I'm in the minority here, but for me it's Plushy. Sure he has the wins, but he also had the worst spins and choreo of the bunch.
    flutzilla1 and (deleted member) like this.
  14. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    It is too early to tell. I agree however, Lambiel should stay longer than Takahashi although I love both.
  15. flutzilla1

    flutzilla1 Well-Known Member

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    Couldn't agree more. Will be voting for him 'till he's out.
  16. lauravvv

    lauravvv Well-Known Member

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    I admit that Chan is impressive in some ways - although not always, since he rarely skates to his best abilities. I understand that pointed toes look better than unpointed toes. And I know that to some people all this audience connection thing looks just like easy flirting with public (which it sometimes is, but not always). But can you answer me - why should pointed toes be more important than individuality (I wont say 'originality', since it's almost impossible to be original nowadays), personal attitude and emotions? I find Chan a bit lacking in those areas, so I don't care about his pointed toes all that much. On the other hand, Lambiel almost never points his toes despite his ballet training, but I find myself not caring about it one bit - just for opposite reasons.
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2012
  17. shine

    shine Well-Known Member

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    Pointing the toes is important especiallhy when you don't have much else to offer in terms of presentation. But when you skate like Lambiel, pointed toes become a moot point :D Although I did notice that he has improved in that aspect well in his last two eligible years (eg. his camel spin became a lot more elegant looking).
  18. masofs

    masofs New Member

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    This. He's a great jumper and I respect that but I don't like his skating. Weak spins, terrible programs and no emotional connection.
    flutzilla1 and (deleted member) like this.
  19. lauravvv

    lauravvv Well-Known Member

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    Yes? I guess I just haven't noticed, although I've been watching his performances more than any other skater's performances :D. But, if seriously, I remember quite a lot of performances from the recent years where he didn't point his toes in his camel spins or in his spirals.
  20. ciocio

    ciocio New Member

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    I don't think he's God, he got a lot of surgeries, maybe a bionic skater...:lol:
  21. Holley Calmes

    Holley Calmes Well-Known Member

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    This. I've never seen him live, but I totally respect all the opinions of so many of you guys who know a lot more about skating than I do. I respect and like Chan, but he is cold. Or remote. Maybe he should really consider this.

    I know this will turn out to be a Plushy versus Yagudin battle in the end, and I can already smell the blood and hear the sabres rattling.
  22. senorita

    senorita New Member

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    I think from round one you would know it will be Yags :) And Kwan probably for ladies although I m not sure there, Yuna maybe...

    I think Joubert and Plushenko have of the best camel spins in bussiness and their spins are not at all slow as people would think and are very much centered. I can think of a bunch of top skaters at Euros this year with way worse spins. Especially Joubert has improved over the years a lot but people keep not looking and Plushenko has upped his spins since 2006.
  23. lauravvv

    lauravvv Well-Known Member

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    I agree. Sometimes they can't get the levels, but other top skaters can't always get the levels either - including Chan and Takahashi. The thing is - Joubert's an Plushenko's spins just don't look very appealing. Actually, in Plushenko's case "ugly" seems like the right word. That may be the reason why people don't appreciate their spins.
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2012
  24. skateboy

    skateboy Well-Known Member

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    Plushenko has greatly improved his spins over the last few years.
  25. flipforsynchro

    flipforsynchro New Member

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    I understand that audience connection is NOT easy. But pointing the toes is a simple thing that can make the skating way more pleasing, and if someone like me who is a low level skater can do it for her moves tests, an elite Olympic level athlete should be able to in his competitive programs. And most skating leaves me cold, so I don't care much for emotion. The only programs (or part of one) that I've felt something are Michelle's Tosca steps and in Hanyu's ending steps.
  26. Cheylana

    Cheylana Well-Known Member

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    Still trying to decide between Lambiel and Kulik. Lambiel has more big titles but the utter lack of triple axel seriously bugs. Still I probably will vote for Kulik.

    I think Chan deserves to be top three on the strength of his basic skating, competitive dominance and likelihood of future Olympic medal, but it looks like he is in very serious danger of being ousted this time.
  27. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    While Chan looks about 100% likely to medal and 80% likely to win gold in Sochi right now, looking at the last few Olympic gymnastics trials, especialy for the U.S, shows how much things can change in a couple years, so shouldnt pencil in anything too early. Granted gymnastics is alot more volatile and prone to that kind of change than figure skating.
  28. bbkenn

    bbkenn Well-Known Member

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    My favorite male skater of all time is Kurt Browning, with Alexei Yagudin behind. I hope Yagudin wins.
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2012
  29. bbkenn

    bbkenn Well-Known Member

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    It's based on emotion, and lots of people on this board don't "like" him. I'm betting on Yagudin to win.
  30. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    Because his programs are so much more difficult than the others.
    It's fair. He tries more, he makes some mistakes.
    In fact, it's Tatiana Gustu vs. Shannon Miller at 1992 Olympics :p
  31. lauravvv

    lauravvv Well-Known Member

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    Yes, Lambiel had huge problems with the triple axel, but "the utter lack" is a myth. As I already wrote in another one of those threads, he did triple axels in 2005, 2006, 2007 and 2008 Worlds, either in the short program, or the long, or both (if qualification rounds which counted in the results until 2006 are included). True, he never did them well, and even had falls on them, but he at least tried, and that's not exactly the same as "utter lack".

    Also, he was still doing 3A in practice less than a year ago - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtEFASkzXKQ. When asked about it in an interview, he said that he has never stopped practising the triple axel. I understand that in practice it's much, much easier than at competition, and he doesn't even do that perfectly here. But, still, that's no "utter lack" either.

    And just for the heck of it - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIYKh-Af_Zk :).
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2012
  32. Zemgirl

    Zemgirl Well-Known Member

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    Obviously a skater who successfully skates a more difficult program should be given credit for it - and by successful I don't necessarily mean "perfect", but just generally a good skate. That said, I don't think anyone should be given a great deal of credit for merely attempting a difficult program and then screwing it up, and it's especially annoying if it's an ongoing pattern. Making multiple mistakes is not good execution, and it's only a good performance if you enjoy watching someone skate poorly.

    Which is obviously not something I have ever experienced :saint:.
  33. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

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    I disagree with your comparison. I felt like Gutsu was a lot more exciting and interesting than Miller. (Except for Miller's FTY)

    But back to who I think should win, I hope that Yagudin wins.