Figure Skating Champions SURVIVOR: Men's ROUND 2

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by Vagabond, Jun 12, 2012.

Who is the weakest link

Poll closed Jun 19, 2012.
  1. Todd Eldredge

    80 vote(s)
    30.9%
  2. Elvis Stojko

    24 vote(s)
    9.3%
  3. Ilia Kulik

    8 vote(s)
    3.1%
  4. Alexei Yagudin

    3 vote(s)
    1.2%
  5. Evgeni Plushenko

    4 vote(s)
    1.5%
  6. Stéphane Lambiel

    4 vote(s)
    1.5%
  7. Brian Joubert

    16 vote(s)
    6.2%
  8. Jeffrey Buttle

    44 vote(s)
    17.0%
  9. Evan Lysacek

    64 vote(s)
    24.7%
  10. Daisuke Takahashi

    7 vote(s)
    2.7%
  11. Patrick Chan

    5 vote(s)
    1.9%
  1. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    And so we progress to Round 2.

    The original contestants were the last twelve men to win a World or Olympic title.

    Alexei Urmanov was voted out in the first round.

    The remaining choices are:


    Who is the weakest link? Use whatever criteria you want, but be forewarned that I will be posting additional Elvis Stojko links each week until he is voted out.

    Stojko's 1995 Worlds SP
    Stojko's 1995 Worlds FS

    :scream:
     
  2. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Eldredge should definitely go next (he should have gone 1st round but oh well), followed by Lysacek.
     
  3. SamuraiK

    SamuraiK Well-Known Member

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    I liked Eldredge and winning world medals from 1990 to 2001 is very impressive. But he's the weakest overall here and I can hardly remember any of his programs.

    So bye bye Todd.
     
  4. sk8ingcoach

    sk8ingcoach Active Member

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    I never liked Evans style. And his jumps were never amazing, he was just kind of mediocre. However i liked todds style and he had a magnificent triple axel. That is why im voting off lysacek now, then buttle, then todd
     
  5. casken

    casken Well-Known Member

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    That first result :rolleyes:

    "Yay, I stood up on stuff" Lysacek or Stojko out next please.
     
  6. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    I was not a fan of Eldredge (Zzzzz), but he is a better skater than Lysacek, IMO.
    Lysacek again, for me ;)
     
  7. misskarne

    misskarne #408

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    Lysacek.

    Because a 3A is supposed to look like a 3A, not a 3S.
     
  8. Triple Butz

    Triple Butz Well-Known Member

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    ITA and I think that Eldredge's skates in 1996 and 2001 were miles better than Lysacek's world or olympic LPs by far. I also found them superior to Lysacek's national performance in 2007, but that's a lot closer. The only thing Lysacek did better than Eldredge was the quad, and he was hardly ever successful with it at the big events.
     
  9. berthesghost

    berthesghost Well-Known Member

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    Why is this poll so much weirder than the ladies? :lol:

    Poor urmanov.

    Anywho, what's up with all the Joubert love? He a one note presentation wise, and as entertaining as that one note was the first 100 times we saw it, it was still pretty cheesy. He has the competitive fire of a scared rabbit, regularly bombing easy comps like Lalique where he basically had it onthe bag yet still lost to lesser skaters. It seemed to take him a century to win worlds and eventhenthey was a forgettable victory.
     
  10. Vagabond

    Vagabond Well-Known Member

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    His turn is coming. Speedily, and in our days. :COP:
     
  11. Mafke

    Mafke New Member

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    Haven't voted yet but am thinking of Joubert. Talk about a skater who never developed in terms of presentation....

    Kulik's eligible career was also pretty short (did leave on a high note though....)

    Waiting to see how things develop.

    Eldridge is off the table for the time being. I think of him as the last of the great truly allround skaters.
     
  12. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    His footwork was definitely better IMO. Todd never had any complicated footwork that I recall. Evan's jumps outside the triple axel were bigger and stronger I felt too.
     
  13. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Vera

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    Someone voted for Lambiel? I guess we should never be surprised by anything.:)
     
  14. Triple Butz

    Triple Butz Well-Known Member

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    Well, I definitely disagree. They both lipped and I thought Eldredge carried more speed into and out of his jumps. And Todd's 3A is in another galaxy compared to Evan's.

    Re: footwork, Eldredge may not have had complexity, but I'll take speed and good edging with musicality over mindless bee-swatting at a near stand still any day.

    Either way, they need to be the next two to go. I just think Lyscek should go first:)
     
  15. matti

    matti Active Member

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  16. MichelleTodd

    MichelleTodd Active Member

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    Well, I love Evan and Todd; they're the type of solid, all-around skater I go for.:cheer2: I voted for Buttle last round and this one. I loathed his inconsistent jumps; cold, cluttered programs; and stumble-and-fumble Olympic performance. :lynch: I don't dispute his Worlds win; it was the first time and maybe only time I actually enjoyed his skating.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2012
  17. AliasJohnDoe

    AliasJohnDoe Dornbush 2015!!!

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    I'm voting Eldredge or Lysacek. When I see those 2 names in the poll, all I can think of is how much better Matt Savoie was.
     
  18. Cheylana

    Cheylana Well-Known Member

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    I loved Matt too, but he pretty much never brought it in international competition. That has to count for something.
    Todd and Joubert are on deck for me, with Todd most likely walking the plank first. :EVILLE:
     
  19. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Vera

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    Am I the only one here that likes Todd Eldredge? I am not saying he is the greatest skater or anything like that, but he had many really good qualities. He landed a 3A3t combination as early as 1990, when very few were attempting it. He had excellent spins, lines, and he was a very consistent skater. He developed artistically after he turned pro. He did not win an Olympic medal but that's because he was competing in an era that was dominated by quad jumpers (Yagudin, Plushenko, Stojko, Goebel, Kulik). He started learning the quad quite late in his career, and never mastered it. I like him better than many other skaters listed here.
     
    Cheylana and (deleted member) like this.
  20. Cheylana

    Cheylana Well-Known Member

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    Vash, those are good points about Todd. I liked him. I think he suffers not only for being a quadless skater in a quad-filled era but also for being kind of boring (or at any rate, not flashy) during his amateur career. Everything was solid but no "wow" features in his skating. His spins were excellent quality but not flashy like Lambiel's. He was a solid competitor but not an outstanding one. He did win Worlds in 1996 but he also let opportunities to win an Olympic medal and a World title slip away in 1998.

    (Actually, I'm tempted to vote for Joubert this round, but I fear the vote would be wasted as there's no groundswell of support to oust him just yet!)
     
  21. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Vera

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    IMO his biggest miss was in 1992 Oly when he landed a 3A-2t and a 3L but slipped and fell on the 2A toward the end of his SP (I still remember his gesture, pointing his finger at his head:lol:). He did not make the team in 94 (the USA had just two spots). In 1998 he had a real opportunity to at least win a medal, but IMO he was beaten by an unexpectedly strong performance by Candeloro. I think he was so distraught over missing the Olympic podium that he could not perform his best at the 98 worlds. In 2006 he was already past his prime, and attempting a quad in the SP when he was not even sure he could land it, pretty much took him out of any medal chances.

    He did beat a very good performance by Kulik at the 96 worlds though. He got on the world podium quite a few times - he won SIX world medals (91 B, 95 S, 96 G, 97 S, 98 S, 2001 B). That's not too shabby. In addition, I think he won the US nationals about 5 times. I do agree that he was not a flashy skater, so some found him boring. He was definitely a joy to watch as a pro. I will take him over Lysacek any day.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2012
  22. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    I liked him. He just wasnt as strong as the others. It is not like he would have been the best even without quad jumps. Stojko, Yagudin, Plushenko, Kulik, Urmanov, and others didnt even need quads to beat a clean Eldredge. At the 98 Olympics he was pushed off the podium by 2 skaters who didnt do quads, and probably would have been even if he skated cleanly. His World title was a bit lucky since Stojko and Umranov, the two favorites, both self destructed, and Kulik made some mental errors in his long program and even with that and very immature artistry at that point still nearly won. He was the best of the second tier basically, kind of like a Zagarodniuk, waiting for others to fall to succeed, but better than Zagarodniuk.
     
  23. Cheylana

    Cheylana Well-Known Member

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    I really think Todd beat himself there. Only five triples in his program, having doubled the second half of his 3-3 attempts and then singling his second triple axel. Then he tried to throw in a second triple axel late in the program and splatted. Candeloro's program was nothing special, it was riddled with sloppy landings on the jumps, a step-out on the second triple axel, awful spins and cringeworthy posing. Ugh!
     
  24. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Candelero beat Stojko in the LP and Eldredge was not capable of beating Stojko so there you have it. Even American journalists all conceded Eldredge was not capable of beating quadless and injured Stojko with a clean skate by stating "he could have bronze", apparently not even realizing Candelero had beaten Stojko in the LP, only finishing below him due to 2nd vs 5th in the short (Eldredge being only 3rd in the SP did not have that luxury). The only places he could have finished were 2nd and 4th.

    I am not sure if there is any year he was capable of an Olympic medal. In 1992 he could have won silver or even gold at the Craptola Olympics with a clean short and his LP from the 91 Worlds, but he was injured and not the same skater, and even healthy wouldnt be the same skater again until 1995. 1994 he couldnt have made the team even had he skated cleanly at Nationals, Boitano and Davis already had their spots earmarked, Mark Mitchell is the only other one they might have considered that year had he skated well at Nationals (he was more in favor than Todd at the time). 1998 he would have likely not medaled skating cleanly as explained above. That leaves only 2002, field was way too deep this year for a quadless skater, most unlikely of all. His consistency was what won him all his World medals. In that sense he is similar to Lysacek. Evan just having more powerful jumps (outside the axel), much trickier footwork, and more command and difficult choreography though.
     
  25. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Vera

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    Injury or not, in 92 he actually had a strong SP, except for the mental error on the 2A. In 98 he could have medaled. Candeloro was just lucky to have won two Olympic bronze medals. He was a showman but never in the same class as other top skaters when it came to competitive skating.

    In 96 worlds he beat a clean performance by Kulik, and that may have been his best competitive performance.
     
  26. duane

    duane New Member

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    NO! You perfectly listed his qualities, and I loved his reverse jumps. I actually think Todd's SP at 97 Worlds (a competition PACKED with talent, as all the top skaters and a young Yagudin on the verge of greatness all gave solid SPs) should have placed first (it later did on a technicality, as first place Urmanov had to withdraw from the LP due to injury, moving 2nd place Eldredge into 1st). I think more than anything, Todd's inconsistency and lack of a quad are hurting him in this game.
     
  27. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    He could have been 2nd or 3rd after the SP in Albertville but his LP would have never held up for a medal. 3 or 4 triples would not win a medal, Barna only did that too but he landed a quad and his artistic scores would be higher than a young Todd even with his boring Hamlet program. Todd wasnt physically able of fit enough to complete more than 4 triples at that point it appeared.

    I agree with you on Candelero but the judges loved his 98 long program and gave him IMO inflated artistic scores, which is why he beat Stojko in the LP despite his technical deficiencies (eg- spins, air positions in jumps, even though he landed almost all his jumps that night) and stepping out of his 2nd triple axel. Candelero beating Stojko in the LP ended Todd's potential medal hopes in Nagano.

    Kulik wasnt really clean in the LP at the 96 Worlds. He left out a triple flip combination, he actually had 2 triple-triples planned like Eldredge, and also had his last triple flip discounted as it wasnt in combination. Otherwise I am pretty sure Kulik would have won even with weaker artistry at that point, and only the same jump content had he done all planned. The sheer quality of his jumps would have done it for him. I was happy that Todd was able to win the 96 Worlds though.
     
  28. Vash01

    Vash01 Fan of Julia, Elena, Anna, Liza, and Vera

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    I still don't understand how a skater with 6 world medals, including a gold, can be considered inconsistent. He never won an Olympic medal, but neither did some of the other top skaters. He did have a low period from 93-96, but his longevity is amazing. He competed from 1990 to 2002- that's 12 years. He missed making the world/team 3 out of those. That's still 9 years of skating at the top level.
     
  29. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    I agree, Todd was very consistent. He just wasnt good enough to beat Stojko hardly ever really, even quadless Stojko, and since Stojko was also consistent he would always lose to him, and he would also lose to Urmanov or Kulik whenever they skated well, while others from behind (eg- Candelero in 98, young Yagudin, etc...) could knock him off even a good Todd if they had a great competition. Before that you had Browning, Petrenko, and others better than him; and after that Yagudin, Plushenko, Goebel's quads (not his skating), and others. Consistency was never a problem for him, just that in an all clean competition he was slated to be 4th or lower at all points of his career, so he never controlled his own destiny. Hence why he won only 1 Worlds, no Grand Prix final, no Olympic medal, and beat the dominant skater of his era only 1 time in 8 years, not lack of consistency though, he was close to as consistent as Stojko and more than the other top skaters then. He was the male Butyrskaya with more consistency.
     
  30. Cheylana

    Cheylana Well-Known Member

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    IMO Eldredge could have gotten ahead of Stojko for silver had he skated better. As you said earlier (or maybe in the last round's thread), Stojko was injured and very off his game that night -- low landings on jumps, shortened spins, etc.

    By the way, I get that judges liked Candeloro's FS, but I just rewatched it and I just can't understand what there is to love -- it was pose, stroke, land a jump by the skin of his teeth with three-turns on the end, rinse, repeat :scream::confused: I would have had Stojko ahead of Candeloro in the freeskate.

    Meanwhile Maria is in danger of being booted off in the women's round, so it might be fitting if Todd and Maria were booted together. :lol: