Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by SamuraiK, Jul 13, 2012.
I did the same ... and for the same reasons.
Kim because even though she was able to keep it together at the most important competition, she gave away like three WC.
Wasn't Michelle 8th in her 1st worlds?
She gave away 2010 and 2011. But in 2007 and 2008 she was badly injured.
Even injured she didnt have to miss the triple lutz 4 times. If she missed only 1 of them both years she would have won both times.
This is an off-season battle of ubers/popularity contest! Vehree seeryus stuff!
Miracles just happen - for the very first time ever ... I've voted for ... Kwan ...
Really? I could have swore you voted for her in both the "skater I have the most irrational hatred for" poll and the "Skater you'd most think ran over my puppy, I hate on so often" poll. Huh. My memory must be slipping.
The first few rounds were fun but it's been clear for a while now that Kwan is going to be the sole SURVIVOR. Next game!
I voted for Kwan last time but this time I had to go with Slutskaya. She just doesn't beat either girl head to head.
With Kwan vs. Kim, it comes down to how much you weigh the OGM against multiple world titles and how you view dominance under the 6.0 system vs. CoP. Slutskaya loses against Kim because she lacks the OGM, and loses against Kwan because she has less world titles. Slutskaya did very well under both systems, but didn't dominate in either. I think her career would have been very different had CoP come about earlier.
But anyway, even though I voted her out, I will never forget her win at Moscow Worlds. That was one of the greatest moments ever, and I give her huge props for 2004 Worlds also. I just couldn't believe she made it through that competition and finished in the top 10, with all her health problems. I'm glad she at least waited to retire until the day when pants were allowed, because she rocked them and they enabled voidier programs.
Surya Bonaly the multiple world medalist and technically strong skater and Chen the world champion and twice Olympic medalist. Whether her basics sucked or Chinese federation lacked influence doesn't deter from the fact that both ladies were world gold contenders during their days.
And as fars as Ando and Kostner go, yes they are wc, but they were never a competition for Yuna when all skater clean.
I don't think we should be comparing Slutskaya to Bonaly and Chen. During the period these three were competing together, Slutskaya wasn't competing for gold because she wasn't a top-level skater yet. Only from 99-00 on was Slutskaya in top shape and could contend for gold.
Irina really only had to compete against one skater at a time when she was contending at the top. From 2000-2002, Kwan was the only major skater she had to worry about. Butyrskaya, a bit, but she was like an Ando or Kostner for Kim. Then for two seasons Irina had various hardships, and came back in top shape for 04-05 and 05-06. During this period, Irina's only main rival was Sasha, if even. Shizuka was a factor one time only because Irina skated unusually poorly in Torino.
Voted for Slutskaya but I was tempted to vote for Kim. I'm swayed in large part by the fact that Kim got OGM on her first try, and under crushing pressure from the entire South Korean population at that, whereas Irina underperformed and came up short in three tries. Irina's extra World gold doesn't make up for that.
This is stupid..... Yuna should win this easy, but there are too many kwan fans even though her technical ability is crap
You should totally BOYCOTT!!!
Nah, I suggest a jump-off between the 2 Ks. Whoever landed the most 3Rs in competition wins!
Whoever landed the most triple-triples in competition wins! And we don't even have to consider their difficulty! And the fact that one of them landed one 3T-3T per year and the other one 6 3F-3T or 3Lz+3T per year with superior height and flow
This is a popularity contest, not a jumping contest!
If it were the former, then Midori would win no question about it.
Dont be too sure, on FSU I wouldnt be surprised if Kwan even won that.
How soon did we all forget that Trash Can elimination game from late 2008 in which Midori Ito--not Kwan--had the highest score after 1,000 posts!
I think Kim is the best overall technical skater ever in female skating history so far, and also very high on the artistic content side. I certainly don't buy the argument that she has competed against a weaker field that the skaters before her. (Mao is an incredible talent, certainly among the best female skaters ever, and as top-notch a champion and rival as ever existed in female figure skating.) As with every sport, in figure skating the skill levels and competitive depth gets better overall with each passing year. That is the way of things and records will continue to fall. Within ten years the women might be doing quads....
True, outta reps for U.
And when having actual transitions in her program, doing more difficult footwork and spins, skating faster, and having at least equally good skating skills. The only thing Kwan has skating-wise over Kim is the spiral sequence, IMO.
If Kim was so good, she should've been freakin able to be more than 1 time WC. everyone knows Kim has harder, better jumps, but Kwan was able take what she had and become 5 time WC and two time OM.
Kim hasn't even been old enough to go to two Olympics yet, you know. Kwan won 5 times out of 12 at the WCs. Kim has won, yes, only once, at 5 WCs, and I doubt she'll do another seven, but she's only 21 still.
yes, but we went over this.
in 5 years:
Kim: OGM, 1WC, 2 silver, 2 bronze
Kwan: Oly Silver, 2 WC, 2 silver
Irina: No Oly medal, no WC, 1 silver, 1 bronze
Irina's clearly the weakest by far.
Kim has more medals at this stage of her career than Kwan did. Contrary to what was posted above, Kwan did not medal in first two appearances at Worlds. In 5 years, she achieved one gold and two silvers at Worlds, and one silver at the Olympics. Kim won bronze her first two Worlds (better than Kwan's non-podium finishes), then a gold and two silvers, but she also won the OGM. So they both had two major titles by this point.
Seriously, do we need to agree on parameters before making simple comparisons? Kwan's first two worlds were at 13 and 14, an age that Kim surely would have competed at had she been allowed to had the rules not changed. Would it make you feel better to make up finishes Kim would have probably made had she been allowed at 05 and 06 worlds? Or shoudl we just bring Mao back as the probably 06 OGM? Or, I know, let's pretend that Kwan was allowed to skate in Lillehammer and just say she came in 13th at her first Oly's while vastly more talented Kim won gold on her first.
I also tried to even it out for fairness by starting the comparisons at the beginning of a Oly cycle. Or do you have some complicated formula for figuring out bonus points for finishing behind medalists about to retire, etc..?
Irina got her medals later in her career and it's actually very admirable that she won her second world title at the age of 26. She was dominating ladies figure skating while being 25, 26 and 27. This is much harder to do when you're that old than when you're still in your teens like Kim did. We will see the level of Yu-Na's skating now when she's older. It's not so sure she'll be as good as she was in the past when she won her titles.