Figure Skating Champions SURVIVOR: Ladies ROUND 8

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by SamuraiK, Jul 1, 2012.

Who is the weakest link among these past champions?

Poll closed Jul 6, 2012.
  1. Lu Chen

    137 vote(s)
    39.1%
  2. Michelle Kwan

    21 vote(s)
    6.0%
  3. Irina Slutskaya

    43 vote(s)
    12.3%
  4. Mao Asada

    120 vote(s)
    34.3%
  5. Yuna Kim

    29 vote(s)
    8.3%
  1. t.mann

    t.mann New Member

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    Really!

    current state
    Chen : 140
    Mao : 120

    Amazing. :lol:
     
  2. bartek

    bartek New Member

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    Irina may not have performed a clean seven triples program as often as Michelle because usually she just attempted 6 triples what was fair enough to win for her. AFAIK Irina had three seven triples programs in her career and all of them are totally unreachable by Kim, Kwan and even Asada technically.

    GPF 1999-2000 with 3Lz+3Lo and 3S+3Lo
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SXO6s3MCDw

    2001 Russian Nats with 3Lz+3Lo
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V97gZ2GZq7Q

    Worlds 2005 with 3Lz+3Lo
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvBSI97Vuw8

    None of Michelle's programs compare to those technially. Soem of Asada's programs with triple axel and two triple-triples can be compared though but still Asada didn't include all kind of triples.

    Besides, Irina skated CLEANLY in the free skate about 15 times in her whole career just about the same as Michelle. That's big consistency.
     
  3. RumbleFish

    RumbleFish New Member

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    One thing this poll does, is fully exposes uberdom among certain posters.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2012
  4. antmanb

    antmanb Well-Known Member

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    Not at all, where in my post did I even mention the Olympics? I doubt you'll bother replying, since you didn't bother replying to the last message in a previous thread where I proved you wrong too :p

    Overall all in their senior careers Yuna was more consistent and had more success. That's pretty much factual when you look at the results and protocols.

    Ok, so one competition where Yuna wins isn't allowed to count for Yuna, but the only time Mao lands three triple axels in one competition (the same competition no less) is allowed to count :confused:

    Can you post a link to the protocols that show Mao landing two 3/3s and 3A because I cannot recall a single programme where this happened, unless you are counting that programme she did at nationals when she was 11 (maybe 12) and seriously under-rotated the 3/3s and 3A.

    Again, please post a link to the protocls that show she has done a programme where she landed all the triples in one programme because I cannot recall a single competition where that happened.


    Well i've never seen Asada include multiple triple axels as well as several 3/3s in the same performance either you keep pretneding that she does, but that's simply not true. If it is, please post the link to the protocls that show this.
     
  5. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    :confused:
    Except her 2005 Worlds LP, the other performances include cheated 3/3.
    Michelle Kwan won 2001 WOrlds, with Irina skating a better LP than her Russian Nats.
     
  6. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    I guess multiple dinners in a row... ;)
     
  7. gingercrush

    gingercrush New Member

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    2007 Worlds FS has pre-rotation on the Triple Axel. Rules changed after 2006-2007 season too.

    Anyway Mao Asada's 2007 GPF FS is undoubtedly the most difficult program performed by a women. One can argue the negative GOEs on jumps all they want or point to ridiculous supposeable two foot skating all they want. Name one skater that could perform that program?
     
  8. antmanb

    antmanb Well-Known Member

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    :rofl: She broke the Zayak rule so that can't count as a seven triple programme, three of the same triple is illegal she didn't get credit for it at the competition.

    Also the GPF 3/3s were not the best quality - the 3Lp on the end of the lutz had a good 1/3 or a turn on the landing, and the triple loop she did on the end of the salchow landed right up on the toe, and she a one rev camel spin on the toe pic on the landing. She stood them up but they were not good quality.
     
  9. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

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    Kind of sad considering that if she had done another triple toe or something before the double loop, she probably would have had the WR score until Yuna came along and broke all those records.
     
  10. miki88

    miki88 New Member

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    Ita. Also according to the protocals, she did get the jumps ratified; she got negative GOE on some of them but they were still counted as fully rotated jumps.
     
  11. gingercrush

    gingercrush New Member

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    Though if Ito and Harding were transported to now who knows what those two skaters could do. Ito of course could do a Double Loop-Triple Loop which seems crazy difficult to me. Harding had a formidable loop. I guess that era just didn't call for triple-triple combinations involving a loop.
     
  12. RumbleFish

    RumbleFish New Member

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    It was also blatently two footed, but some judges neglected it and didn't deduct accordingly.

    It was certainly one of her better skates as a senior, but it was only one point better than Kim's FS with a fall on an under-rotated 3loop.
     
  13. gingercrush

    gingercrush New Member

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    Her loop isn't marked as underrotated.
     
  14. RumbleFish

    RumbleFish New Member

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    Perhaps she happens to be a chronic bad cook. :)
     
  15. miki88

    miki88 New Member

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    It's also interesting to see Kim taking a risk with the triple loop during the 2007-2008 season (something she never did or didn't really need to do again after that season). It speaks to the level of difficulty that both girls were aiming for that season.
     
  16. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    LOL what planet are you on. Her performance at Russian Nationals was much better.
     
  17. Amy03

    Amy03 Member

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    (something is wrong, i can't quote right so i will just writte my name beside my answers)


    amy: you know i only bother replying when it isn't stupid, ridicouloes and ignorant quesion that are asked or stated, but i will make an exception this time!



    Overall all in their senior careers Yuna was more consistent and had more success. That's pretty much factual when you look at the results and protocols





    amy: Mao has won every title (worlds,4cc,gpf) several times yuna hasn't (with the exception of the olympics) beside that they both have a dosin of medals so i really don't see where you get the idea that there is a big difference in terms of succes!




    Ok, so one competition where Yuna wins isn't allowed to count for Yuna, but the only time Mao lands three triple axels in one competition (the same competition no less) is allowed to count :confused:



    amy: you should reread my post cause you seriously seem to have missed the point, let me repeat myself yuna ONLY has one title more then Mao, that in itself doesn't make her a better skater!



    Can you post a link to the protocols that show Mao landing two 3/3s and 3A because I cannot recall a single programme where this happened, unless you are counting that programme she did at nationals when she was 11 (maybe 12) and seriously under-rotated the 3/3s and 3A.



    amy: I am pretty sure you know how to find the protocols yourself, so maybe you should trouble yourself a bit and get it! but if you were a bit clever you wouldn't need it, looking at the score should confirm it, but if that doesn't make you content then go get the protocols!


    Well i've never seen Asada include multiple triple axels as well as several 3/3s in the same performance either you keep pretneding that she does, but that's simply not true. If it is, please post the link to the protocls that show this.



    amy: :rofl: you know one thing i realised after this whole discussion is that when people don't want to look at reality nothing will make them accept it!:kickass:

    so if it makes your ego feel better, just continue to pretend that Mao never did several 3A in the same program, she hasn't landed several 3-3 and a 3A in the same program... it just never happened, right :scream:

    (by the way does anyone know to quote right, something is wrong )
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2012
  18. Triple Butz

    Triple Butz Well-Known Member

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    Ever heard of Elaine Zayak?

    I would add this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKvX8U9WH9g Slutskaya, Kim, and Asada have never landed 7 triples in a world or olympic competition which is worth noting IMO.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2012
  19. Triple Butz

    Triple Butz Well-Known Member

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    Good for her in 2007/2008, though! :cheer: That makes two seven triple programs.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2012
  20. antmanb

    antmanb Well-Known Member

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    I do read your posts but you are either too stupid to make your poitns clearly or purposefully miss the points that are raised. Mao landed three triple axels in one competition just once, not multiple times, but you seem to think the fact she achieved it once means that she's to be worshipped in some way. This i do not understand whatsoever.



    :HA!: You are not providing the protocols because you can't find one to prove your point. You seem to have followed her career more closely than I have so I was genuinely asking you to provide links to the protocls that show her landed two 3/3s and a 3A in the same programme because I cannot remember her doing so. Repeating the same thing over and over again does not prove your point. Refusing to provide a link to protocols also makes me think you looked but did not find a single competition where this happened.

    Resorting to personal insults also shows that you cannot prove what you are asserting. Also the highlighted section above does not make any sense, looking at absolute scores does not show you what someone has landed in the comeptition. I have to ask myself if you even understand the first thing about figure skating.


    Perhaps English isn't your first language and you did not phrase your statement quite correctly. You said that she landed two 3As and several 3/3s in the same programme. That means two triple axels and more than one 3/3 combination. I think Mao has only done one or two programmes with two 3As and neither had even one 3/3 combination let alone more than one. I ask you to link to a protocl that shows this in order to prove your point, and I'm willing to concede that I am wrong if you can. The fact you tell me to look up the information myself, I think goes a long way to proving that I am right and you are, in fact, wrong.

    But by all means keep repeating the same factually incorrect things to see if you can make anyone else belive it.

    Mao has achieved some truly amazing technical feats, and trying to over state what she has done simply diminishes her already great acomplishments.
     
  21. VIETgrlTerifa

    VIETgrlTerifa Well-Known Member

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    It doesn't seem to matter anyway. From the ways things are progressing, Asada will be gone in Round 9.

    I do wonder how this poll series would have ended up had Cohen and/or Suguri won a World championship.
     
  22. dawnie

    dawnie Active Member

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    If Suguri won 2006 Worlds and replaced Meissner on the poll, she would have been the first one voted off too.

    And, Amy... you need help girl. I'm sure you can find a reputable shrink somewhere in Tokyo.
     
  23. magnolia

    magnolia New Member

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    Round 9 will simply have to be about who your favorite skater is, because there's a convincing argument to be made for all four skaters to say who is the best:

    Michelle and Irina are stronger than Mao and Yuna for their longevity. Michelle had more artistry than Irina but Irina had more energy and speed.
    Michelle and Irina's programs lack the kind of difficulty and precision seen in Mao's and Yuna's CoP programs.
    Mao has skated the most technically challenging program in figure skating history and is the only one within the four to have a triple-axel.
    Yuna got the highest score in Olympic history.

    Really hard to tell!
     
  24. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Suguri might have outlasted Hughes (undeservedly IMO). Cohen in the poll would have been the real interesting thing to see.
     
  25. dawnie

    dawnie Active Member

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    Cohen's torch would have probably been snuffed either before or after Chen. I don't think she would have outlasted the final 4 of Slute, Kwan, Kim, and Asada.
     
  26. Plusdinfo

    Plusdinfo Member

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    No disrespect to Mao, but her triple axels have never impressed me. They don't seem to get much height or distance, and I don't think her technical side has ever excited me. Rather, I liked some of her 2006-2008ish programs from an artistic standpoint, though I don't remember enjoying her 2010 Olympic programs.

    For me, there are no ladies who have surpassed Midori Ito or Tonya Harding in the "Wow!" realm of technical achievement.
     
  27. bartek

    bartek New Member

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    Well, Irina also had difficult CoP programs in her career with all the levels and high GOE. Her ability to skate very successfully under both system is remarkable.

    To Mao's advantages I would also add the fact that she is the most flexible skater out of those, and has the best line, posture and the best positions in spins and spirals.

    Irina and Michelle have also full set of triples (apart from axel of course), Mao doesn't do lutz and sal and Yu-Na doesn't do loop. However, if Irina and Michelle had competed under current version of CoP they would've been penalised for flutz as well as Asada and what would they have done? Irina could've got away with it because she actually took off from flat but Michelle definitely flutzed.
     
  28. magnolia

    magnolia New Member

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    Sure, Mao's triple-axel has achieved less height and distance than the ones achieved by Midori and Tonya, but I do believe Mao tops these two in the number of ratified triple-axels.

    Anyway, neither Midori and Tonya are on the poll, and here, you only have to compare Mao's existent triple-axel with the other threes' non-existent triple-axels.
     
  29. Triple Butz

    Triple Butz Well-Known Member

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    And If Yuna and Mao competed during the Michelle/Irina rivalry they would likely have been punished for not being well-rounded and leaving out triples. Who finished top five at worlds without at least attempting all triples up to the lutz during that time? And your comments about Michelle and Irina's lutzes are just your opinion. Also, there are a lot of skaters with similar take-offs like Suzuki, Nakano, Nagasu (just to name a few) who have been hit or miss with lutz/flip calls. Heck, Zhang and Wagner even got credit for their lutzes at 4CC this year. And who is to say that they wouldn't have cleaned up any minor edge issues had there been a need for it? Just like Mao and Yuna would probably be trying their least favorite triples if it was expected of them.
     
  30. dawnie

    dawnie Active Member

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    Kim would have been in the same situation Yamaguchi was in. Yamaguchi always attempted the salchow even though she rarely landed it. Kim has landed the loop a few times during her career though.

    Asada would have been way more successful under 6.0 since flutzes and underrotations were not so closely scrutinized.