Figure Skating Champions SURVIVOR: Ladies ROUND 8

Discussion in 'The Trash Can' started by SamuraiK, Jul 1, 2012.

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Who is the weakest link among these past champions?

Poll closed Jul 6, 2012.
  1. Lu Chen

    137 vote(s)
    39.1%
  2. Michelle Kwan

    21 vote(s)
    6.0%
  3. Irina Slutskaya

    43 vote(s)
    12.3%
  4. Mao Asada

    120 vote(s)
    34.3%
  5. Yuna Kim

    29 vote(s)
    8.3%
  1. blue_idealist

    blue_idealist Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you about the worry that Mao will miss her own Olympic team. If Ando comes back, one of Ando, Asada, Murakami or Suzuki will have to stay home. :(

    Honestly can't see Kim winning the 2014 Olympics though, unless she makes a huge comeback in 2013, but I really just can't picture that happening either. The 2014 Olympics is so wide open, anyone else could win.. even Kostner! That would be crazy!
     
  2. berthesghost

    berthesghost Well-Known Member

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    ITA the 2014 is wide open and just about anyone can win. Thus, I believe that counting out Kim makes absolutely no sense at all. The last 3 WCs are Mao, Miki and Caro... all of whom have been at it longer than Kim and all of whom have had much worse meltdowns. Much worse. Kim's disasterous post OGM downward spiral has resulted in two silver medals at worlds. :lol: Now, if you want to say that the old guard will be outskated by new baby ballerinas, or that a Russian will be heavily favored, maybe.., we'll see. But predicting that grandma Miki will make her 3rd Oly team, or that grandma Caro will win on her 3rd try, but younger, stronger, more talented Mao and Kim will be shyt outa luck because they are so over... come'on :rofl:
     
  3. Cheylana

    Cheylana Well-Known Member

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    Voted for Lu Chen. I can see the argument for voting for Mao, but I feel Mao pushed the technical edge more with her triple axel and triple-triples. She has been a little unlucky to have been under the downgrade/flutz police's microscope these last few years, which caused a number of her jumps to disappear for the time being. Lu would not have that second Olympic bronze had that kind of scrutiny been in place in 1998. Also, Mao has better spins.
     
  4. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

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    :irina1: for OGM at Sochi!!!
     
  5. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    She probably would have a better shot than Mao at this point. :lol:
     
  6. RumbleFish

    RumbleFish New Member

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    I just don't understand why people are voting out Lu Chen over Mao Asada.

    They both have similar caliber of acheivements, but Lu Chen fought uphill battle all the way coming from a weak federation. On the contrary, Mao Asada collected her medals receiving one gift after another.

    There is a huge gap in quality of their respective accomplishments, IMO.
    Mao Asada should be voted out.
     
  7. Macassar88

    Macassar88 Well-Known Member

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    At least she can do a proper lutz.
     
  8. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    They dont have similar achievements. Mao has 2 World titles. Lu has one. Mao has won the Grand Prix final twice. Lu never has. Mao has an Olympic silver. Lu does not. Mao was also forced to miss an Olympics and Worlds she probably would have won (or atleast 1 of the 2) based on the stupid age rules Kwan and Chen never had to deal with. Also if you are going to point out that there was no GP final before the 95-96 season, what I just pointed out more than negates it.

    Mao was a much more dominant skater and bigger threat in her time, despite in the end playing second fiddle in her era to Yu Na Kim. I look at the measuring stick of skaters in the Kwan era as their records vs Kwan. Lu Chen never beat Kwan again at the 95 Worlds. Similar to how Butyrskaya and Cohen almost never beat Kwan. The skaters who often beat the great Kwan like Slutskaya and Lipinski were the real forces in that era besides Kwan herself. Similarily the skaters who often the beat the queen of the COP era Yu Na Kim a number of time, Mao Asada, and Ando who did it only twice but both times at Worlds, are the best skaters of this era besides Kim. If you can never beat the best skater of your era you dont belong in the top 3 or 4 skaters of that era either.
     
  9. briancoogaert

    briancoogaert Well-Known Member

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    I would give ! to her Lutz. :p
     
  10. RumbleFish

    RumbleFish New Member

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    As I have said to you in another thread, problems with your analyses are always assuming that judges get it right and all competition results are valid. I don't agree to this, as I have always thought judeges get it right less than 50 percent of the time.

    Even with all the lowballing Chen Lu received through out her career, she still managed to win 2 olynmpic medals and 4 world medals. So take that.
     
  11. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Yes so lowballed she won a medal at every Worlds she was in where she skated decently, and received a gifted 2nd Olympic medal she didnt deserve (1998).
     
  12. antmanb

    antmanb Well-Known Member

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    If Lulu didn't deserve the bronze in Nagano then who do you think deserved it over her? Surely not Butyrskaya - she was really stiff legged throughout her LP and had quite a lot of saved jumps in the programmes. The version of Otonal that she skated in Nagano was nowhere near the standard she would eventually skate it at 99 worlds.
     
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2012
  13. allezfred

    allezfred Mince Pie Depriving Admin Staff Member

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    So if judges only get it right less than 50% of the time and if you're applying that "logic" fairly, then Lu Chen should only have 1 olympic medal and 2 world medals. :p
     
  14. RumbleFish

    RumbleFish New Member

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    I think you would fit right in as an ISU judge.
    How about becoming one instead of being a moderator? :p
     
  15. allezfred

    allezfred Mince Pie Depriving Admin Staff Member

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    I will when you post something positive about Mao Asada or Miki Ando. :D
     
  16. masofs

    masofs New Member

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    Ita.
     
  17. t.mann

    t.mann New Member

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    I think if Mao had competed during times of between Kwan(peak&healthy) and Kim, she would have been the dominant skater of the era. Winning 02 or 06 OGM.
    Because during that period judges were not harsh for the wrong edge&underrotation and there was no consistent 3-3 skater and Mao is more complete skater than Irina etc.
    So Mao should go to ROUND 10 at which top 3 contend. ;)
     
  18. berthesghost

    berthesghost Well-Known Member

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    Or...... she should have 4 oly medals and 8 world medals! :lol:

    But I'm fine with the 50% rule. :lol: I'm ok with nagano, but would have given her silver in Lillehammer. 91, 92, and 95 are fine w me, but she should have placed higher in 93, 96 and 97. See... 50% right. :D
     
  19. sk8ingcoach

    sk8ingcoach Active Member

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    I seriously cant believe that Mao has so many votes... How could anyone think that Mao is weaker then Chen Lu, it is ridiculous... Yeah Mao didnt skate well the past 2 seasons, but neither did Michelle in her last seasons. Everyone skates better when they are young, and Mao is a prime example. When she won her first Worlds, i was amazed that after the terrible fall at the beginning that she could skate the rest of the program pretty much perfect to win the gold. She has landed 3-3 combinations countless of times, much more than Lulu, michelle and even Slutskaya. I know there are a lot of people that love michelle, but after lulu, it is either Michelle or Irina that should go
     
  20. kwanatic

    kwanatic Well-Known Member

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    That's not true. Irina, Maria, Akiko and Carolina are just a handful of examples of skaters who peaked later than earlier in their careers. It's harder to start off successful when you're young and maintain your competitive position as you age, but it is possible. Mao hasn't done that and I honestly think that's the main reason she's getting so many votes. As gorgeous as her skating is she hasn't been a strong competitor these last few years. She appears to be on the upswing but until we see some evidence of it, we have to go by what she's done up until this point. And IMO 3-3s and 3xs aren't enough to save you on a poll that includes both 6.0 and COP skaters. Different times, different requirements...you have to look at the body of work, both abilities and results. Mao gets top marks in abilities but her results aren't as strong...

    The current state of her skating is why I'm considering eliminating her this round. At best, she's been an erratic competitor since Vancouver. Mao hasn't been on the podium in two consecutive world appearances...no other skater on this poll had back-to-back appearances at worlds without a medal. Unfortunately, when looking at the overall picture, that puts her on the chopping block...
     
  21. smarts1

    smarts1 Well-Known Member

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    Like I said, we already know that you hate Lulu to death...

    Anyways, the thing that makes it so hard is that we don't know how the rest of Mao's career will play out. We know how Lulu's did, but Mao isn't finished so it's hard to say who's better than who.
     
  22. kwanatic

    kwanatic Well-Known Member

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    ^^Exactly. This poll should have two winners IMO: Best 6.0 skater and Best IJS skater.

    Michelle wins best 6.0 skater with Irina as the runner-up...
    Yu-Na wins best IJS skater with Mao as the runner-up...

    Poll over! Can we do something else now? :p

    Seriously though, this damn poll isn't over for another 3 days. Why are the voting periods so long? Can we end it tonight and start the next round?
     
  23. RumbleFish

    RumbleFish New Member

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    Let's try to make a compromise... How about if I throw shit at my favorite skaters? I would be much easiler for me. :D
     
  24. UGG

    UGG Well-Known Member

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    LMAO um no.
     
  25. bartek

    bartek New Member

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    And I would give e to Michelle's lutz.
     
  26. bartek

    bartek New Member

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    OMG, did you even read what I wrote? Ever since Irina won GPF 1999-2000 she was clearly favoured over Michelle by the judges. 2000 and 2001 Worlds were her to take. Irina usually won even if they both made mistakes. Look at the GPF in 2000-2001 and 2001-2002.

    Irina NEVER lost her lutz throughout her whole career so your point is totally irrelevant. Mao didn't include both lutz and salchow at some point (when she went to Tarasova). Irina always had full set of triples besides axel.

    At this point it's clear for me that Lu Chen should go. I don't understand how anyone can vote Mao off. She is technically superior to Lu Chen, artistically they are comparable and Mao has a lot more accomplishments. Besides Mao has also beautiful line and stretch. Chen's spirals and spins were terrbile. Mao wins also in terms of skating skills, she has superior flow and edging.
     
  27. Amy03

    Amy03 Member

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    TOTALLY AGREE
     
  28. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    Who is this "we", you have been given the power to speak for all. :lol: I dont hate Lu Chen, in fact I like her, and defended her in many of the previous rounds. The fact I acknowledge she is outclassed by the others on this group, and dimiss the false notion she was robbed of being a 4 or 5 time World Champion by politics which seems to be the line of defense being used against these more accomplished and dominant greats (the only one to go to), in no way infers I hate her. It just means I am not clueless to reality.

    Mao's career is already much better than Lu's. What happens from here is irrelevant.
     
  29. judgejudy27

    judgejudy27 Well-Known Member

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    I mostly agree, but I would give Irina the runner up in the IJS skater to Yu Na as well. She was killing it for about 15 months when COP first started, and her Worlds LP had her triple not been discounted would been about 136, which is higher than Mao's PB, and to achieve a 70 short program without a triple-triple in 2006 (and the score inflation has alreayd been discussed in other threads) is insanely good.
     
  30. satchelpooch318

    satchelpooch318 New Member

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    Damn, I should've voted for Mao just to annoy the Mao ├╝bers... :p